You know the game is not balanced properly when...

[mudfud]

And you are saying that you would run it more than once? And even if you would only run on killer dm difficulty all the time you are part of a minority. Most players will only do quests for the reward. They will rather run 20 enorm MoDs than try to get a group for ee and the result is that the raid itself is easier than getting people to do it with. It would definitly not be more popular.

I can only speak for the people I quest with and a few others. If you need nothing in MoD why even run it? Most people I play with only login to help guildies. We need nothing, want nothing, have anything we want or could get. The point for logging in would be to get a challenge a real challenge, where the reward would be the challenge itself.
Me, personally if it was really challenging I would run them until I do them so much I get bored of them. Which could be hundreds to thousands of times. Or we could just login once or twice a week just to chat and see if people need help with things. To me playing more would be a benefit to all but without any real challenge what's the point?

[Mryal]

I was going to read the entire discussion but then i saw this:

And an Artificer ED for that matter.

Sev~

THIS is all that matters.When? this update? Yes yes!

[davmuzl]

I can only speak for the people I quest with and a few others. If you need nothing in MoD why even run it? Most people I play with only login to help guildies. We need nothing, want nothing, have anything we want or could get. The point for logging in would be to get a challenge a real challenge, where the reward would be the challenge itself.
Me, personally if it was really challenging I would run them until I do them so much I get bored of them. Which could be hundreds to thousands of times. Or we could just login once or twice a week just to chat and see if people need help with things. To me playing more would be a benefit to all but without any real challenge what's the point?

You are possibly going to have a lot of fun figuring out how to beat the difficulty the first time. Worst case it is just scaled up numbers, which would probably mean that not even the first time would be fun. But even if it is fun it is going to be easier very fast after the first time. I would very much appreciate having fun in challenging content but right now it is pretty much impossible to find a group for lvl 28 ee raids and the rest is too easy(Maybe not ee terminal delirium but honestly I just didn't bother trying again after being 100-0ed without having a chance to react on a character that easily tanks large groups of ee mobs in most other quests). I don't know how frequently you run those raids on ee but I would prefer if it was possible to find a group and the only way I see is having better loot or tons of xp.

[Artagon]

Fighter is fine, though I agree it is behind Paladin. Their greatest weakness is actually saving throws.

Fighter is far from fine. It has two trees which are poor clones of Paladin trees, and the one unique tree it has, kensai, falls so far behind the curve that it is laughable. Fighter has awful saves, which you pointed out, no self healing, no self buffing, and no distinct add-on damage to make it a viable alternative to Paladin or Barbarian at this state of the game. This, btw, is coming from a guy who used to make almost every character have fighter levels. Extra feats do not make up for all the advantages granted to the other melee classes via enhancements or spells. I don't want to harp on Holy Sword, but it completely negates the only reason for a player to go T5 in Kensai. The Kensai pass should happen sooner than later (I might suggest an armor allowed stance that lets them build ki for one thing. Steel Stance perhaps?).. and the defender tree could stand to be made more interesting than a watered down pally defender.

We've considered a Killer DM mode - something even harder than elite - where content always scaled to 6 people, champions have nastier effects, and monsters did more damage. The problem, outside of implementation time, we ran into is this; what could we possibly use to reward players for playing it? We don't want to add even more XP into the game. Higher level loot drops aren't really useful while leveling since it already out levels players on higher difficulties. No one is going to grind for power items if they will level past them quickly. Our data shows that such a difficulty would probably sit unused for a vast majority of the player base.

Completely remove the XP reward for it. Grant Turbine Points or Astral Shards for Killer DM mode at the appropriate level. Maybe provide achievement levels.. like changed character name color or special titles based on the total number of Killer DM dungeons have been completed at the appropriate level.

[dunklezhan]

We've considered a Killer DM mode - something even harder than elite - where content always scaled to 6 people, champions have nastier effects, and monsters did more damage. The problem, outside of implementation time, we ran into is this; what could we possibly use to reward players for playing it? We don't want to add even more XP into the game. Higher level loot drops aren't really useful while leveling since it already out levels players on higher difficulties. No one is going to grind for power items if they will level past them quickly.

Sev~

With regard this ^^, I think this sort of thing would be a good start:

Grant Turbine Points or Astral Shards for Killer DM mode at the appropriate level. Maybe provide achievement levels.. like changed character name color or special titles based on the total number of Killer DM dungeons have been completed at the appropriate level.

I said "sort of thing" because whilst I'd love it, I don't believe that realistically you could give out either the TP or shard rewards freely enough to make it worth it and not be really cutting into the business model even at 1Tp a quest. But certainly that sort of thing - colour changes and titles are cool (but no colours that are the same as anything you see on a mob!).

I'm also thinking Killer DM favour levels & associated rewards, saga reward-scale renown rewards - in fact, generic Killer DM sagas which you have to work towards - maybe any ten Killer DM quests count as a 'Killer DM Saga' - extra fate slots/points (balance issues, I know, its just off the top my head), any and all existing crafting materials (shroud mats, cannith mats, LOB mats, scrolls/seals/shards whatever) and so on. Surely that kind of stuff would be a motivating factor without necessarily directly adding more power (ignoring the fate point/slot suggestion anyway)?

Also, I think I prefer Uber difficulty as opposed to Killer DM difficulty. Moar bragging rights and puns available that way