Farwind: An Air savant Endgame EE DPS Build

[Michele]

That's right, then why did you ask me if I can keep meridian fragment up? I can just use Eardweller

Sorry, back to 670 SP Build sucks, must take Epic skill focus: spellcraft

your build is good. it doesn't suck at all (but it can be improved).

In my build I calculated separately "sustainable" spell power and "not sustainable" spell power: the 670 spell power that you wrote is not sustainable at all.

for example eardweller recharges 1 use per rest, and I don't believe that when you are soloing "what goes up" your are able to being hit so much to keep 24 psionic spell power sustainable and stay alive.

Draconic fury is not sustainable (4 minutes cooldown and has a 20 seconds duration), however I could find useful before casting energy burst + dragon breath at the beginning of a boss fight.

[Michele]

Um, versatile adept IV and Enchantment of magic?
I'm pretty sure even vanhooger and overvaan will agree that not taking Tier 5 savant abilities is pretty terrible.
The 15% damage debuff alone is more worth than any of the spell power increases your suggestions bring.
Leave alone the other goodies...

That distribution wouldn't even work with your other suggestions.
You can't go 41+36 and take stuff like Traditional Caster from Human.
If you don't go 41 in savant you lose your capstone, that would be even more terrible.

then don't take human stuff. play bladeforged.

the only thing I would be sorry to loose is "Awaken Elemental Weakness: Electric"; I don't care about wind dance, elemental diversification and lightning bolt sla.
If you want to specialize in single target damage, choose another element because electric is best suited for area of effect damage.

Do you prefer having permanent +27 universal spell power or "awaken elemental weakness"?
Do you prefer +27 universal spell power or +15 spell power in one element from elemental diversification?
Do you prefer +1 evocation or moment of clarity +1 DC to all spells?

However, I'm really not saying that harper tree is better than a secondary element tree: please I don't want to continue speaking about harper tree because I don't have tested harper tree on a sorcerer.
I spoke about harper tree only because it gives more spell power to your main element, but I never said that it's better: choose whatever tree you prefer

[Eth]

your build is good. it doesn't suck at all (but it can be improved).

All the 'improvements' you listed so far have some severe drawbacks that you simply seem to ignore.
Spellpower is important, but not everything.
Blue dragon set...sure I have that, still won't wear it because that directly loses 1-3 DCs.
Landing and not landing your spell DCs can be huge (50% loss not landing your Evocation DC, another 80% not landing your enchant for helpless damage).
5 spellpower in exchange for Hellball... Hellball is one of the best spells in the game.

Bladeforged - lol, no elemental form, awesome, there goes another 20 spellpower, caster levels and 2% crit. chance and 1 charisma.

[Michele]

All the 'improvements' you listed so far have some severe drawbacks that you simply seem to ignore.
Spellpower is important, but not everything.
Blue dragon set...sure I have that, still won't wear it because that directly loses 1-3 DCs.
Landing and not landing your spell DCs can be huge (50% loss not landing your Evocation DC, another 80% not landing your enchant for helpless damage).
5 spellpower in exchange for Hellball... Hellball is one of the best spells in the game.

Bladeforged - lol, no elemental form, awesome, there goes another 20 spellpower, caster levels and 2% crit. chance and 1 charisma.

I said bladeforged because in order to survive in fleshy form I would waste much things (fey form instead of cocoon, items to increase healing amplification, and a lot of other stuff).
However nothing prevents a bladeforged to transform in elemental form in less dangerous situations (for example in a group that takes care of front line defense while you are back spamming your spells in elemental form). You can switch between bladeforged and elemental form based on situations.

Jergall is a sorcerer in my guild on Cannith who is able to crowd control 95% of times with his bladeforged and equipping the blue dragon set; he also have no problems with evocation DC. and he is building a bladeforged fire savant with more than 200 prr with divine crusader main epic destiny. If he can, then everyone can.

Please can you tell me how hellball is one of the best spells in the game? A lot of people say that but I still can't find how it is good.
Let's say that I did some tests with 600 cold spell power (what spell power uses hellball? different spell power for each element? or the highest spellpower?):
1) I stepped in epic elite black loch and pulled an hobgoblin;
2) I debuffed him heavily (evocation spell augmentation -10 reflex, mantle of the icy soul, solid fog green steel clicky), so let's say that hellball DC was 79 (assuming that the dc is the same of energy burst);
3) Oh wait, I just read that hellball DC is 20 + caster stat modifier (please tell me that it's not true!), what DC do you reach? (Farwind would reach 46 dc with his 62 charisma... ).
4) At last I cast 3 hellballs to kill that stupid hobgoblin (3 hellballs to kill 1 hobgoblin?).

Please teach me how to use hellball because I also think that +5 epic skill focus spellcraft is lame for a level 28 feat, but I can't find a better offensive level 28 feat for a dps caster.
Read this thread about hellball: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...eats-HellBall?

Do we want to speak about Ruin spell? I made tests with Ruin spell and it's dealing 5k damage on critical (I'm not force specced though). To tell the truth I prefer +1 charisma. I find difficult that a sorcerer needs Ruin with all the spells he has at disposal. If you are afraid that you don't have enough DC for your spells, then don't take Ruin instead of +1 charisma lol. If you are thinking about Ruin damage numbers on helpless mobs, remember that bosses can't be made helpless.

Another thing: when you cast an energy burst, or dragon breath, or energy vortex, the only things that matter are spell power and caster level.

Please, can you make a test for me?
Jergall said that energy burst and dragon breath cap at level 39: can you check if it's true?
A sorcerer with the abishai set and arcane augmentation IX should have a caster level a lot higher than 39.
If you decide to make the test, consider that "draconic spell knowledge" increase the caster level of dragon breath, but not of energy burst; Abishai set increase the caster level of energy burst, but not dragon breath (at least it's what combat log says when I'm equipping the abishai set, even if I have the impression that my dragon breath deal more damage then energy burst when equipping abishai set and only 1 point of draconic spell knowledge).

[Monkey-Boy]

Please teach me how to use hellball because I also think that +5 epic skill focus spellcraft is lame for a level 28 feat, but I can't find a better offensive level 28 feat for a dps caster.

Make your target helpess first.

[xTethx]

Well if you cast hellball in the right spot it can doublestrike. So then you just add your spell power goodiness/crits and it can easily equate to a 4k-8k nuke aoe on a very very short cd (no helpless included).

[Michele]

Make your target helpess first.

even with a druid I can instant kill everthing without making anyone helpless (for example orcs in what goes up or anything in lines of supply, epic elite of course). Sorcerers deal more damage with it because they have an higher caster level.
Why should I need hellball against helpless mobs when I can cast chain lightning + ball lightning + delayed blast fireball without metamagic, spend less spell points and doing 5x more damage? You sorcerers are so lucky because you have tons of area of effect spells (we druids are crying because we have no decent area of effect spells and we have to rely on draconic sla to mimic sorcerers and not being as good as them with draconic destiny).

Ok, you don't like +5 epic skill focus spellcraft (I usually focus on 1 element), but you... you... you are specced in 2 emelents, take +20 spell power in your secondary element if you really care about it...

Everyone (me included) in that thread is saying that hellball does 200+200+200+etcetera damage (maybe 400+400+400+etcetera damage) on non helpless mobs (lol, my call lightning with low lightning spell power does 2k damage with full metamagic when crits, and I consider it weak).

[Michele]

Well if you cast hellball in the right spot it can doublestrike. So then you just add your spell power goodiness/crits and it can easily equate to a 4k-8k nuke aoe on a very very short cd (no helpless included).

can you respond to all my other questions about hellball? for example its DC? is it really 20 + charisma modifier? if that's true, how many times you will see those numbers? why am I never saw those numbers with an extremized spellpower druid build? why I had to cast 3 hellballs on an hobgoblin to kill him? Do you really need hellball when you have all those good sorcerer spells?

[Eth]

snip

Just for the record...completely unbuffed.
http://youtu.be/uUEy9aV0HZ0

[Michele]

Just for the record...completely unbuffed.
http://youtu.be/uUEy9aV0HZ0

Nice, but not impressed.
You made it helpless with sunburst (do you have sense weakness?).
It still does less damage then chain lightning + ball lightning + dbf without metamagic and still with an higher cost.

As I said you can take secondary spell power +20 instead, you don't need hellball.
I'm still not sure about its DC (46?)

[Eth]

Nice, but not impressed.
You made it helpless with sunburst (do you have sense weakness?).
It still does less damage then chain lightning + ball lightning + dbf without metamagic and still with an higher cost.

As I said you can take secondary spell power +20 instead, you don't need hellball.
I'm still not sure about its DC (46?)

No sense weakness and how dare I make stuff helpless on a sorcerer.

[Michele]

No sense weakness and how dare I make stuff helpless on a sorcerer.

I don't understand what you just sayed (how dare I make stuff helpless).

You cast soundburst sla twisted from exalted angel, and it made that hobgoblin helpless.
Then I saw 5 numbers of about 1k each, doing a total of 5k damage in an epic mob. Do you call it an epic spell?

I also did once 24k damage with my dragon breath in an helpless druid in druid curse EE, but I don't say to the others that my dragon breath deals 24k damage.

[Michele]

Sorry, they were 8 hits (hellball double procced), the highest was 1k damage.

Between me and you: Do you really think that a sorcerer should take hellball at level 28?

[xTethx]

can you respond to all my other questions about hellball? for example its DC? is it really 20 + charisma modifier? if that's true, how many times you will see those numbers? why am I never saw those numbers with an extremized spellpower druid build? why I had to cast 3 hellballs on an hobgoblin to kill him? Do you really need hellball when you have all those good sorcerer spells?

The dc for hellball is definitely wonky. Can't say what it is for sure, but it is for sure higher than the description and seems to even work on evasion mobs when they save. As for fitting it in the rotation that is up to you. And I cant comment on why it took you 3 hellballs to kill a hobgoblin.

[Cetus]

Again, tell me an example of gearset with +20 Spellcraft item on it and let's see if I like it.

You noob - log in at some time and I'll go through my gear setup with you. I think you can find some improvement.

[Wizza]

You noob - log in at some time and I'll go through my gear setup with you. I think you can find some improvement.

Are you gonna make me wear light armor too? Because then no.

And be an air savant.

Sorry, they were 8 hits (hellball double procced), the highest was 1k damage.

Between me and you: Do you really think that a sorcerer should take hellball at level 28?

Between you and him, yes. Everyone already answered to your question.

You guys can move this discussion somewhere. Every 2 or 3 pages someone comes in and talk about how hellball is useless. It's not, if you don't wanna take it, then just don't but don't go around saying it sucks when it clearly doesn't.

[moo_cow]

The stupidity that has happened in the last few pages of this thread is ridiculous.

[Chai]

can you respond to all my other questions about hellball? for example its DC? is it really 20 + charisma modifier? if that's true, how many times you will see those numbers? why am I never saw those numbers with an extremized spellpower druid build? why I had to cast 3 hellballs on an hobgoblin to kill him? Do you really need hellball when you have all those good sorcerer spells?

Because its cha or int, and you are casting it off a druid. The mob gets one save to cut the entire thing in half. It is likely you are always doing half damage.

[moo_cow]

even with a druid I can instant kill everthing without making anyone helpless (for example orcs in what goes up or anything in lines of supply, epic elite of course). Sorcerers deal more damage with it because they have an higher caster level.
Why should I need hellball against helpless mobs when I can cast chain lightning + ball lightning + delayed blast fireball without metamagic, spend less spell points and doing 5x more damage? You sorcerers are so lucky because you have tons of area of effect spells (we druids are crying because we have no decent area of effect spells and we have to rely on draconic sla to mimic sorcerers and not being as good as them with draconic destiny).

Ok, you don't like +5 epic skill focus spellcraft (I usually focus on 1 element), but you... you... you are specced in 2 emelents, take +20 spell power in your secondary element if you really care about it...

Everyone (me included) in that thread is saying that hellball does 200+200+200+etcetera damage (maybe 400+400+400+etcetera damage) on non helpless mobs (lol, my call lightning with low lightning spell power does 2k damage with full metamagic when crits, and I consider it weak).

Hellball has nothing to do with caster levels. It is spell power and base damage only.

Let me just lay out some math for you here. My calculations here are old with outdated spell power and such, and the math could have been done simpler, but I am not gonna bother redoing it.

Chain Lightning caps at level 20 + 8 = 28
1d3 + 3 (x28 caster levels) = 140
140 x 8.65(765 + 100)/100
= 1211

Crit: 1211 x 2 = 2422 x .46 = 1114.12
non : 1211 x .54 = 653.94
= 1768.06 damage


Hellball
Damage: 3d20 + 15 per element

electric
46.5 x 8.65
= 402.225

crit: 402.225 x 2 = 804.45 x .46 = 370.047
non : 402.225 x .54 = 217.2015

= 587.2485

Sonic
46.5 x 6.33
= 294.345

crit: 294.345 x 2 = 588.69 x .46 = 270.7974
non : 294.345 x .54 = 158.9463
= 429.7437

Fire
46.5 x 6.8
= 316.2

Crit: 316.2 x 2 = 632.4 x .31 = 196.044
non : 316.2 x .69 = 218.178

= 414.222

Acid
46.5 x 5.67
= 263.655

crit: 263.655 x 2 = 527.31 x .31 = 163.4661
non : 263.655 x . 69 = 181.92195

= 345.38805


= 1776.60225 (100% doublstrike = x2) = 3553.2045


Chain lightning was done with 765 spell power and 28 mcl (current mcl in game is 30 I believe) and the hellball spell power was done in each separate calculation

Now I don't wanna be that guy but in my professional opinion 3553 is a bigger number than 1768. And plz don't come back and say that you disagree or that your chain lightning does 15 000 damage.

Michelle you also don't seem to understand how much you sacrifice to get spell power from useless gear and harper tree that doesn't boost as much as you think it does.

Take my example of chain lightning.
If I add 50 spell power to the spell. Then I go from an average of 1768 to 1870.26. It is 100 extra damage. It does seem nice but going all the way up the harper tree for less then that damage is terribad. Wasting a feat on 5 spell power is also bad.

[Blackheartox]

Hellball has nothing to do with caster levels. It is spell power and base damage only.

Let me just lay out some math for you here. My calculations here are old with outdated spell power and such, and the math could have been done simpler, but I am not gonna bother redoing it.

Chain Lightning caps at level 20 + 8 = 28
1d3 + 3 (x28 caster levels) = 140
140 x 8.65(765 + 100)/100
= 1211

Crit: 1211 x 2 = 2422 x .46 = 1114.12
non : 1211 x .54 = 653.94
= 1768.06 damage


Hellball
Damage: 3d20 + 15 per element

electric
46.5 x 8.65
= 402.225

crit: 402.225 x 2 = 804.45 x .46 = 370.047
non : 402.225 x .54 = 217.2015

= 587.2485

Sonic
46.5 x 6.33
= 294.345

crit: 294.345 x 2 = 588.69 x .46 = 270.7974
non : 294.345 x .54 = 158.9463
= 429.7437

Fire
46.5 x 6.8
= 316.2

Crit: 316.2 x 2 = 632.4 x .31 = 196.044
non : 316.2 x .69 = 218.178

= 414.222

Acid
46.5 x 5.67
= 263.655

crit: 263.655 x 2 = 527.31 x .31 = 163.4661
non : 263.655 x . 69 = 181.92195

= 345.38805


= 1776.60225 (100% doublstrike = x2) = 3553.2045


Chain lightning was done with 765 spell power and 28 mcl (current mcl in game is 30 I believe) and the hellball spell power was done in each separate calculation

Now I don't wanna be that guy but in my professional opinion 3553 is a bigger number than 1768. And plz don't come back and say that you disagree or that your chain lightning does 15 000 damage.

Michelle you also don't seem to understand how much you sacrifice to get spell power from useless gear and harper tree that doesn't boost as much as you think it does.

Take my example of chain lightning.
If I add 50 spell power to the spell. Then I go from an average of 1768 to 1870.26. It is 100 extra damage. It does seem nice but going all the way up the harper tree for less then that damage is terribad. Wasting a feat on 5 spell power is also bad.

Nuuuuuuu someone pulled the math card.
I hate the math card.
It usually beats every funny conversation that pops from time to time.

On a sidenote, i was myself wondering if i should go bf drow or human for a long time.
What i found out is that only thing i would gain as bf would be selfheal, but since i prefer ele form so much i entirely droped that idea.
One thing that pushed me most toward humie was simply twists, i really dont know what is better then sense/empryian and +dc for first 3, i take cocoon for last one,
If there was a better draconic setup then enchant sense empyrian and cocon i would really be grateful guys.
I considerd to drop enchant as well for most epics for fey form still keeping 4 3 2 1.
Considerd to swap to exalted for aoe instaundead kill, but then i fail to figure out what twists i want.
Sense/energy burst and empyrian but with that i would need to swap to bf and use heart and bla bla bla.
In short, from a full maxed perspective in draconic i found humie to fit my needs the most esp since i never found myself in a situation that i need more prr/mrr and hp that i alrdy have.
I would like to improve my character tho, after seasonal work when i get full time ddo again il proly rush 3 warlocks and (depends) either stay warlock or again sorc /but if they do anything like it is in never i might stay as warlo since it just has more nukage overall on specific builds