Vip - rip

[Qhualor]

The OP's point is valid and many of the negative responses are lolz.

Champions make no sense at all in Korthos. They make no sense at all in the Harbor. They make no sense at all in many of the marketplace quests.

The champion implementation is about what would be expected when a sweeping change is made across all quests and all levels.

How do they not make sense in low level quests? They make more sense in higher levels? Do you know where the Champion idea came from?

The only valid point I've seen so far is that Korthos is where new players first see the game. Champions or no Champions I would expect them to get spanked on elite and hope that they drop down a difficulty or two to learn more about the game overall before tackling tougher difficulties.

[Braegan]

The OP's point is valid and many of the negative responses are lolz.

Champions make no sense at all in Korthos. They make no sense at all in the Harbor. They make no sense at all in many of the marketplace quests.

The champion implementation is about what would be expected when a sweeping change is made across all quests and all levels.

Valid or not, his tone has gotten what it deserves.

You may have missed some edits.

I am all for no champs in korthos, but in 4 runs (2 on norm no champs) they really didn't make a difference. Like seriously not at all. Like nothing like folks are saying, one shotting uber 20k le rawr, seriously, not even close. Champs I killed just as stupid easy as I did the rest of them. I am still ok with removing them from korthos, but folks, let's stop pretending they are hard.

[Lanhelin]

The OP's point is valid and many of the negative responses are lolz.

Champions make no sense at all in Korthos. They make no sense at all in the Harbor. They make no sense at all in many of the marketplace quests.

The champion implementation is about what would be expected when a sweeping change is made across all quests and all levels.

Champions should appear in second and further lives, if ever, but not in the very first one. It simply is not understandable for a new player why there's an npc who is able to one hit-kill the player, to let a whole quest fail, and so on. But this decision was made for a good reason (I expect, or at least I hope), but I do not really understand its sense.

Turbine, please, all of you are reasonable people - why did you do this?

[Lanhelin]

Valid or not, his tone has gotten what it deserves.

Pfuh, glad that you're not a developer.

[Braegan]

Champions should appear in second and further lives, if ever, but not in the very first one. It simply is not understandable for a new player why there's an npc who is able to one hit-kill the player, to let a whole quest fail, and so on. But this decision was made for a good reason (I expect, or at least I hope), but I do not really understand its sense.

Turbine, please, all of you are reasonable people - why did you do this?

/casts Summon Chai with MM pics to prove it

Well this game that was based on pnp has long supported that monsters in large groups would have superior mobs with them, to kinda govern them and keep them in line.

It not only makes sense in pnp it makes sense in any organized idea of society. For every so many worker drones there is a champ among them.

Gah, it's like life is so hard to teach.

[Braegan]

Pfuh, glad that you're not a developer.

Pfft. Glad you are not a real player.

Oh wait, my wish came true!

[Qhualor]

Champions should appear in second and further lives, if ever, but not in the very first one. It simply is not understandable for a new player why there's an npc who is able to one hit-kill the player, to let a whole quest fail, and so on. But this decision was made for a good reason (I expect, or at least I hope), but I do not really understand its sense.

Turbine, please, all of you are reasonable people - why did you do this?

Considering first lifers group with second, third, eightieth lifers that would be impossible.

If you read the official Champion thread there are some TRs there claiming to have been one shotted by Champions. Its not just new players apparently.

The devs I know said hires will get upgraded, but I didn't see anything about protection quests. That much I do agree needs to also be upgraded.

[Lanhelin]

Seriously, ask yourself would 5 hp and 1 ac made a difference to you? Seriously. I would like an answer.

I say maybe. You say no. Who's right? We'll never know. I had serious problems with this quest. You had none. You call me a liar? Is it all about dice rolls? Even with D&D I don't think so. And now? If you feel better when you're the good guy and I'm the bad guy then it's ok for me, as long as you don't compromise the truth. Please, let it be. Thank you. *good boy*

[Braegan]

I say maybe. You say no. Who's right? We'll never know. I had serious problems with this quest. You had none. You call me a liar? Is it all about dice rolls? Even with D&D I don't think so. And now? If you feel better when you're the good guy and I'm the bad guy then it's ok for me, as long as you don't compromise the truth. Please, let it be. Thank you. *good boy*

Look son,

Don't try some "good boy" carp with me. And next time you wanna tangle with someone on the boards do yourself a favor and stick to the shallow end of the pool.

I gave advice on your extremely whiny condescending post. Then I proceeded to show that my advice actually worked. Then again I refined to accommodate your criteria. So not once but twice I did what your rant was about. Normally I would not even post negatively in a thread like yours asking for help. But that is the key of it. You were not asking for help. You were straight up crying like a kid. You left the game before because it was easy, you came back and now it's too tough for you to solo elite. Well boo freakin hoo bro. I got no sympathy for you. Especially since your title and unedited tone was of the feeling you were going to cancel your sub and quit the game again due to champs and stamped your foot down like a bratty 4 year old.

Act like an adult and get treated like one. Otherwise I have schooled you twice already, no need for a third time

[Lanhelin]

Look son,

Don't try some "good boy" carp with me. And next time you wanna tangle with someone on the boards do yourself a favor and stick to the shallow end of the pool.

I gave advice on your extremely whiny condescending post. Then I proceeded to show that my advice actually worked. Then again I refined to accommodate your criteria. So not once but twice I did what your rant was about. Normally I would not even post negatively in a thread like yours asking for help. But that is the key of it. You were not asking for help. You were straight up crying like a kid. You left the game before because it was easy, you came back and now it's too tough for you to solo elite. Well boo freakin hoo bro. I got no sympathy for you. Especially since your title and unedited tone was of the feeling you were going to cancel your sub and quit the game again due to champs and stamped your foot down like a bratty 4 year old.

Act like an adult and get treated like one. Otherwise I have schooled you twice already, no need for a third time

*good boy*


This was so freakin' predictable, thank you

[PermaBanned]

Champions should appear in second and further lives, if ever, but not in the very first one. It simply is not understandable for a new player why there's an npc who is able to one hit-kill the player, to let a whole quest fail, and so on.

It's also not understandable why the highest difficulty settings should be suited to new players - there's this lovely difficulty setting called "Normal" and it works great for new players, especially those soloing quests & even more especially for those new players looking to solo quests without using bluff, trip, stun, charm, hypno, etc...

But yeah, as for your concern about new players on ungeared characters in Ellite: check my sig -->

[Lanhelin]

It's also not understandable why the highest difficulty settings should be suited to new players - there's this lovely difficulty setting called "Normal" and it works great for new players, especially those soloing quests & even more especially for those new players looking to solo quests without using bluff, trip, stun, charm, hypno, etc...

But yeah, as for your concern about new players on ungeared characters in Ellite: check my sig -->

yeah this could be a question too, but it's up to Turbine to change this. Actually the first benefit of being a vip is to be able to open quests on highest difficulty (and the second one is to open every quest), and then there's the streak and so on.

Nevertheless I remember about one year ago I could do all quests on Elite (except the protection one) without any issues. One year ago I didn't think about opening a thread in the forums - hell I even didn't bother about any forums, I just played - but nowadays it is different. Why?

[Braegan]

*good boy*


This was so freakin' predictable, thank you

It was as predictable as your wanna be self entitled elite rant.

I do so look forward to some more of your forum rants where you find such difficulties in such challenging quests like STK and the Depths Series!

Those can be really, really tough. Please go in prepared!

But, have no fear and don't worry about me. I am sure I can use vet status to make a character to put you to shame the second you whine about those as well.

Happy adventuring and best of luck, something tells me you are going to need a lot of luck, lol.

[Lanhelin]

I do so look forward to some more of your forum rants

Go to Off Topic Forums (it should be vitalised anyways) to find the only two and no more of my threads. Or click on the thread hiding behind my signature (warning: this could keep you busy quite a few time).

Be a good boy, please, do as I advice

[Braegan]

Go to Off Topic Forums (it should be vitalised anyways) to find the only two and no more of my threads. Or click on the thread hiding behind my signature (warning: this could keep you busy quite a few time).

Be a good boy, please, do as I advice

I'll do that as soon as you can solo korthos and not post a rant like a 4 year old brat who didn't get the kind of candy they wanted on Halloween.

[Lanhelin]

So we heard a few opinions on the issue. Are there more of them out there? The serious ones I'm interested, not the other ones.

[Keladon]

I'm a returner. You'll easily recognize me as my toon actually is named "Returner" (on Wayfinder, 1st life to get in again, Rogue/Wiz planned) and performing as bad as you guys at Turbine probably bet on?! When I left, quests on Khorthos were easy, almost all even on Elite, except the one where to keep the npc alive. All fine, but now I fail at the "defeat the chrystal" quest all the time (lol? w.t.f.?), because on every attempt two champions spawn and kill me and my hire with one hit instantly. I do not know what the deeper sense of this gameplay design decision was? If I was Turbine, I'd probably say: well, we know we made this game - but we don't want you to be vip (because DDO is dead) - and if you dare anyway, we simply kill you. Is this your very intention? If not, then this clearly is a bug (I wonder why it not had been mentioned already) that has to be removed now.

Edit:
I mean, what is the incentive nowadays to become a VIP? Getting all the content but getting ripped in the first elite quest? No, definitely not. Please, take a little more time to think about your decisions - or explain the hyper-10-times-reincarnated-it's-still-a-challenge difficulty increase! Or should I move DDO directly into the desktop-basket, should I uninstall, is this your intention? I want an answer, please.

I'm sure it's one of the 58 unintended consequences that they didn't think of.

But yes, it removes the one big thing VIP has going for it. I have no idea if they care about that, but if it affects their income we'll know soon enough.

[Chi_Ryu]

A first life Rogue (note the name, just for you. I skipped The Grotto, destroyed all loot, only ran the Cannith Crystal once at Elite as I am VIP and can open), maxed Int, naked run with hire. It did take me three attempts because the crystal got one shotted, but that was my failure (for me that's always the toughest part of the quest). Are you going to say it doesn't count because I used Drow?
How did I do it? Use of Bluff, Stealth (and hitting creatures from behind when they were busy with the Barb) and using his two rage boosts at sensible times. This isn't all that difficult, really.

Nevertheless - where is the memo for the vips, the returners, the >newbies< ?

Newbies (and returners) should not start by playing Elite. As to how best to approach quests now made tricky by Champions, well that's what makes the game interesting - try different things, think about how you can protect the crystal... and be darn glad that they changed Coyle in "Hold for Reinforcements" to not be a quest fail condition when he dies (I struggled enough with that on Elite at level before champions!)

I've comfortably solo'd The Cannith Crystal on Elite with non-Wizard first life characters (but not without a hire - the crystal gets too much aggro). The trick is to think about how to distract the cultists from the crystal (and if you are dying too easily, since you are a Rogue consider stealthing around and letting the hire take the aggro).

If Elite is too hard... then try the next lower difficulty - Hard. That's how it works in most other games.

Edit: Start a new toon. Go to Korthos beach, do the first quest, enter Korthos, go to Hire Vendor, buy Barb/Cleric, go to chrystal quest giver, enter chrystal quest on Elite, finish it.

Why are you not doing The Storehouse's Secret and Heyton's Rest first (both level 1, both unlocked at start, and Heyton's Rest is literally the first quest you see after getting off the boat)? If you are really still struggling with this, repeat those two quests (as you should already be at circa 3,000XP after doing both on Elite) and take level 2.

Champions make no sense at all in Korthos. They make no sense at all in the Harbor. They make no sense at all in many of the marketplace quests.

Why not?

[Connman]

I have none of your blue items, I am a pure fresh new toon. Do it again.

Edit: Start a new toon. Go to Korthos beach, do the first quest, enter Korthos, go to Hire Vendor, buy Barb/Cleric, go to chrystal quest giver, enter chrystal quest on Elite, finish it. Actually I wouldn't insist, but that's what I did. And this is what a newbie vip probably would do too.

with what plat? seriously, I joined a permadeath guild and went to get a hire after running the first quest and did not have enough plat for a hire. So I thinks maybe you fudge a little, and yes, I broke every barrel on the way.

So I had no problems so far, running elites on a fresh you pull it you can use it toon. 2 people 2 hires, all level ones. No deaths. I have to admit thought, when we got to the "defeat the skeletal mage" optional we both froze, like it was choreographed, and just looked at each other. Then we slaughtered the mage, but it dive give us pause.

[slarden]

How do they not make sense in low level quests? They make more sense in higher levels? Do you know where the Champion idea came from?

The only valid point I've seen so far is that Korthos is where new players first see the game. Champions or no Champions I would expect them to get spanked on elite and hope that they drop down a difficulty or two to learn more about the game overall before tackling tougher difficulties.

Why not? These are starter areas and I don't believe the hp and damage is scaling properly at those low levels. Even with past lifes and using an uber weapon that new players can't even get now it took me a while to take down a korthos champ with damage reduction. Elite was never inaccessible to new players in the past.

This has nothing to do about you folks wanting to add challenge to the game for yourself. It's all about making elite inaccessible to others. Most vets skip korthos except the ones wanting to get the favor and they zerg through it once and done FAST. How long does a new player or a person working on their 2nd/3rd character spend in Korthos, The Harbor, etc? A few weeks or longer vs. a few hours. Past lifes and twink gear was never required to complete Elite in the past and now the rules are being changed.