Vip - rip

[Kaytis]

Pfft. Glad you are not a real player.

Oh wait, my wish came true!

It isn't necessary to do this. This is very disrespectful, as has your tone been throughout.

[Qhualor]

How long do you spend on level 1-3 quests when you tr? I am done with those low level quests in a few hours and see no need for that tiny % of my leveling to have champs.

I see no rational reason why a vet needs challenge in the harbor - that is absurd.

As for the "pro champion" people as you call them I think many are arguing to make it more difficult for others - not to make it more challenging for personal challenge. Especially when I hear them arguing that champs must be in Korthos and the Harbor to give them challenge. Then I see some of them complain in other threads that they run on normal because there is no incentive to run on elite.

I typically make it to level 5 in 1 play session doing one and done. Its quite easy with little challenge and I rely on chest loot and ship buffs. Leveling even on a 3+ life TR is fast and easy to do, but its mostly push forward while swinging tactics. Champions at least make me pause once in awhile and use back up plans and tactics making it more fun and less boring. Time to complete holds very little bearing for me.

Yes, the difficulties and rewards attached to the difficulties are borked and need improvements. Incentive is what drives the players to run quests and difficulties, but without proper and balanced incentives it causes a multitude of play styles playing together on all difficulties. Challenge alone isn't enough incentive. Pre-MOTU I was at a point when I had almost everything I wanted for my characters and running quests just for challenge lasted 2 months. I needed more of a reason to run elite and spending tons of plat on consumables after I could say "been there, done that".

[Hendrik]

I said something similar in another thread, and they disagreed with me just because it was me and I am not the most popular guy around. The issues about this have nothing to do with game balance or needing nerfs, it is about people having entitlement issues.

Something must be wrong as I am agreeing with you way too much.

Behold as the first of seven seals have been broken!

[Artrish]

The characters (both) I ran this quest with were both as new as I can make them. Seriously, ask yourself would 5 hp and 1 ac made a difference to you? Seriously. I would like an answer. You see my SS, you see my HP, not one potion was used, because I didn't have any. It was not needed if you have even a modest amount of player skill.

You are asking questions from someone that doesn't know the answer that you are wanting. They are new, have stated they are new and don't know because they are new to it. All you have proved in your ellaborate demonstration is that a vet in starter gear can complete the quest, which is not the posters issue. Their issue is that they are new and feel useless in an elite quest without first gaining the experience and knowledge that those telling him he "sucks" all have.

The developers have developed the game in a way to balance vets and everyone else questing in the same content to try make it fun for all in some way. To do this they created a large difference in elite and normal setting. Some are going to find it too easy, some are going to find it too hard. The original poster is in the content too hard on elite basket for his experience and knowledge in game.

Ease up on the newbie's, its a frustrating experience enough for them to load the game and wipe every quest. Don't pile a wall of hate on top just because you want to stroke your ego at how adaptable your abilities are acrosss a wide range of classes.

[Azarddoze]

You are asking questions from someone that doesn't know the answer that you are wanting. They are new, have stated they are new and don't know because they are new to it. All you have proved in your ellaborate demonstration is that a vet in starter gear can complete the quest, which is not the posters issue. Their issue is that they are new and feel useless in an elite quest without first gaining the experience and knowledge that those telling him he "sucks" all have.

The developers have developed the game in a way to balance vets and everyone else questing in the same content to try make it fun for all in some way. To do this they created a large difference in elite and normal setting. Some are going to find it too easy, some are going to find it too hard. The original poster is in the content too hard on elite basket for his experience and knowledge in game.

Ease up on the newbie's, its a frustrating experience enough for them to load the game and wipe every quest. Don't pile a wall of hate on top just because you want to stroke your ego at how adaptable your abilities are acrosss a wide range of classes.

No. He's mostly saying that the difference here isn't gear. It's skills and knowledge. And skills is what should separate being able to face the toughest challenge vs not being able to.

[Holleyz]

I just recently like the last few days created a brand new level 1 character on thelanis, (getting out of cannith) anyways yes I was running Korthos on elite with my level 1 and yes the cannith crystal is not doable. In my case I had 3 champions appear and yes they one shotted my barbarian hire then ate me alive. Now I am not a new player but I am not a sucky player either. I mean really I am starting from scratch on there so I was using the rusty longsword and the rusty mace from heytons crypt. So like how am I supposed to beat down a champion (3) of them with that? But to my rescue came a player on that server named Mons who gave me some weapons so I could go back to Korthos and take care of business. My point though is how do you expect new players to beat these champions with a rusty longsword and a rusty mace? Also if they should not be running elite then what is the point in being and paying for VIP?

[thakorian]

Ease up on the newbie's, its a frustrating experience enough for them to load the game and wipe every quest. Don't pile a wall of hate on top just because you want to stroke your ego at how adaptable your abilities are acrosss a wide range of classes.

Now here is the thing. Braegan set out to help but was met with disbelief. He proved his point, twice, and then was met with harsh words. I think OP brought this on him/herself and that Braegan was very patient to the extent that I would not have gone to.

In fact, just merely reading OPs posts conjure in my mind the sort of rhetoric that would get me a warning on the forums.

I'm not going to bother talking about champions. The points I would have made are already said.

[moomooprincess]

Did anyone link what the DEVs said about ELITE quests?

As stated, get the hireling barbarian.

Or, do what I do, leave Korthos and go to the Harbor and level up to 3rd level, hire a level 3 hireling, have better gear, come back and run it.

My main goal on Korthos is to run it, don't sweat the XP, I know the loot is mostly garbage although I have received a +1 tome on Korthos, get it over with and get to the Harbor and above.

And the absolute best way to run it on elite on a 1st life with hardly any gear, get someone to give you an air elemental gem or a snow elemental gem. Problem solved.

[thakorian]

I was running Korthos on elite with my level 1 and yes the cannith crystal is not doable.

False, it has been proven doable.

In my case I had 3 champions appear and yes they one shotted my barbarian hire then ate me alive. Now I am not a new player but I am not a sucky player either. I mean really I am starting from scratch on there so I was using the rusty longsword and the rusty mace from heytons crypt. So like how am I supposed to beat down a champion (3) of them with that?

Retry, adjust tactics, minimize the role of luck.

My point though is how do you expect new players to beat these champions with a rusty longsword and a rusty mace? Also if they should not be running elite then what is the point in being and paying for VIP?

Being able to and having the choice to run elite are two different things. If you think you should be superman with a fresh character just because you're vip, and be able to do higher level content on it's hardest difficulty level, then I don't know what to tell you. Get a reality check? A modicum of humbleness due to your lack of understanding of the game mechanics? People will help you if you ask. You just got to figure out what to ask. The best items are not going to get you through quests at hardest difficulty.

[Keladon]

Retry, adjust tactics, minimize the role of luck.

Being able to and having the choice to run elite are two different things. If you think you should be superman with a fresh character just because you're vip, and be able to do higher level content on it's hardest difficulty level, then I don't know what to tell you. Get a reality check? A modicum of humbleness due to your lack of understanding of the game mechanics? People will help you if you ask. You just got to figure out what to ask. The best items are not going to get you through quests at hardest difficulty.

The role of luck. Luck shouldn't decide if you succeed or fail a quest.

And talk about a hostile answer. The question was "what is the point of VIP if it's not running elite", you managed to not answer that in 3 full lines of text, congratulations.

Yes, this has devalued VIP, but that's up to Turbine to decide whether or not that's an issue.
They're still driven by money, if they notice the amount of subs going down, I'm sure they'll act accordingly.

[Ralmeth]

If someone is having a difficult time with a quest, why not group up? Just a thought...

[SiliconScout]

... So like how am I supposed to beat down a champion (3) of them with that? ...

As stated by the devs you aren't, not at level 1 and solo at any rate. What you should do is run some of the other quests (even that one) on easier difficulties and level up a bit before running Cannith on Elite.

...Also if they should not be running elite then what is the point in being and paying for VIP?

That you would have to ask the Devs to be honest as they have stated they do not expect new players to be soloing Heroic Elite Korthos, especially not underlevel. Personally my answer would be that it provides more benefit once you hit level 5 or 6 and up. This is because at that point on a first level toon you will be leveling faster than XP (even on normal and hard runs) is provided. There will be 3rd level quests you simply didn't get to until you were level 4, 5 sometimes even 6 and at that point opening that quest on elite (solo or in group) is quite a boon.

That said even at 1st level if you pull a group together to run the quests having 1 VIP can allow you to hit hard and in many cases even elite straight out the gate if the group decides to go that route.

The real issue is that you aren't expected to be able to solo elite as a new player, that is by design. Granted it used to not be the case but I think that the game being so easy has hurt long term player retention. Champions add a bit of balance back to the game and that is not a bad thing.

The "bad thing" is streak bonus to be honest, it's the only thing that pushes players (new and vet alike) to be running elite all the time. Turf the streak and double, even triple the first time at difficulty / daily XP bonus and you will easily make up for the XP lost by streaking and eliminate the pressure players feel to run elite only.

[Chai]

Ease up on the newbie's, its a frustrating experience enough for them to load the game and wipe every quest. Don't pile a wall of hate on top just because you want to stroke your ego at how adaptable your abilities are acrosss a wide range of classes.

Who is choosing the correct difficulty setting for their experience level, and wiping on every quest?

ssoidh

[Keladon]

If someone is having a difficult time with a quest, why not group up? Just a thought...

Not always a possiblity due to limited playtime, not enough people around (wayfinder), no people running that quest at that moment, ...

It's a nice thought, but it's not always an option.

And some people just like to solo *gasp!*. (especially this last part has become taboo since the introduction of champions, won't be long now til an angy mob shows up on my doorstep just for mentioning soloing)

As stated by the devs you aren't, not at level 1 and solo at any rate. What you should do is run some of the other quests (even that one) on easier difficulties and level up a bit before running Cannith on Elite.
*snip*
The real issue is that you aren't expected to be able to solo elite as a new player, that is by design. Granted it used to not be the case but I think that the game being so easy has hurt long term player retention. Champions add a bit of balance back to the game and that is not a bad thing.

The OP or person who started this thread is not a new player.
And the devs stated that they don't expect new players to run elite from the moment they start playing.

Just mentioning this because people keep bringing it up, even for experienced players who start over on a new server or who start a fresh first lifer.

[Seikojin]

Reasons to be vip:
open elite
+10% exp on everything (save crystals that give exp)
500 Tp per month
Extra character slots
I believe free shared bank, but I cant recall because I bought it before going vip.
Extra slots in the ingredients bank.
Some races and classes you would have to buy otherwise.

With that out of the way... Champs.
They only appear on hard and elite. If elite owns you, step down to hard. If hard owns you, do it on normal. Or, do it on normal to learn the quest and then step up to hard and then elite to see the challenge they each provide.

I know that only people asking to die start on elite when they first start a game. I watched it for years with one of my kids.

And to the doing it on elite, first lifer, naked, at lvl 1. That can be done and has been done, daily, by thousands of people. Sorry you couldn't do it, but at least you could play hard or normal to get a better feel of spawns, tactics, etc.

[RockHeavy]

... I mean really I am starting from scratch on there so I was using the rusty longsword and the rusty mace from heytons crypt. So like how am I supposed to beat down a champion (3) of them with that?

That is the point (that some people seem to be missing entirely)... you are not "supposed" to beat a champion fresh off the boat. You are "supposed" to run the quest at level (i.e. normal difficulty for a lvl 1 toon). If you can solo it on hard / elite - all well and good, but if you can't then you need to step down the difficulty, get a group together, or come back when you are a bit stronger and try again on elite.

The fact that the OP, and others in this thread, expect to be / have been able to steamroll elite content from the get-go with a completely new lvl 1 toon is proof that something like the champion mechanic was needed and that it is doing it's job. It's not perfect by any means, but it is not a game-ending cataclysm either.

[thakorian]

The role of luck. Luck shouldn't decide if you succeed or fail a quest.

Role of luck always exists in a game that is based on randomness. What I am referring to is mostly being aware of what you are dealing with. Deathblock and such for instakilling mobs instead of relying to not fail a fort save and so forth.

And talk about a hostile answer. The question was "what is the point of VIP if it's not running elite", you managed to not answer that in 3 full lines of text, congratulations.

Yes, this has devalued VIP, but that's up to Turbine to decide whether or not that's an issue.
They're still driven by money, if they notice the amount of subs going down, I'm sure they'll act accordingly.

I can't give an answer as to why someone should or should not be vip, it is purely a matter of choice. I am merely stating that if someone is paying for vip solely to have instawin-buttons on the hardest difficulty, and find that it isn't so, then they might need to readjust to that situation.

Thank you for the congratulations, I'll add it to my ever growing list of compliments.

[Keladon]

Reasons to be vip:
open elite
+10% exp on everything (save crystals that give exp)
500 Tp per month
Extra character slots
I believe free shared bank, but I cant recall because I bought it before going vip.
Extra slots in the ingredients bank.
Some races and classes you would have to buy otherwise.

With that out of the way... Champs.
They only appear on hard and elite. If elite owns you, step down to hard. If hard owns you, do it on normal. Or, do it on normal to learn the quest and then step up to hard and then elite to see the challenge they each provide.

I know that only people asking to die start on elite when they first start a game. I watched it for years with one of my kids.

And to the doing it on elite, first lifer, naked, at lvl 1. That can be done and has been done, daily, by thousands of people. Sorry you couldn't do it, but at least you could play hard or normal to get a better feel of spawns, tactics, etc.

And now for the real reason to be VIP, things you can't buy in the store:
- 10% xp
...

Yup, that's it when you can't run elite anymore or aren't supposed to.
Being able to open everything on elite is imo the biggest draw for VIP.

Does being VIP mean you have to run everything on elite? No, ofcourse not. But that also means you lose a reason to become VIP.
Like I said, it's up to Turbine to determine whether or not that's an issue, if the number of VIP players remains the same - no problem. If it goes down..

Role of luck always exists in a game that is based on randomness. What I am referring to is mostly being aware of what you are dealing with. Deathblock and such for instakilling mobs instead of relying to not fail a fort save and so forth.

I can't give an answer as to why someone should or should not be vip, it is purely a matter of choice. I am merely stating that if someone is paying for vip solely to have instawin-buttons on the hardest difficulty, and find that it isn't so, then they might need to readjust to that situation.

Thank you for the congratulations, I'll add it to my ever growing list of compliments.

I never said the role of luck doesn't exist, I'm saying it shouldn't determine if you fail or succeed at a quest.

And you can give an answer as to why someone should be VIP, quite objectively even, just sum up all the advantages.
And "instawin-button on the hardest difficulty"? What does that have to do with anything? I'm sure that sounded like a good argument in your head but it doesn't make any sense at all.
You do see there's an issue with letting people pay for something but not letting them make use of it, right?

You're welcome for the congratulations, I'll even apologize for overestimating your ability to recognize sarcasm.

[thakorian]

I guess not having to buy adventure packs isn't really a perk of being vip

[Chi_Ryu]

yes I was running Korthos on elite with my level 1 and yes the cannith crystal is not doable.

I have proved in this very thread that it is possible for an entirely naked, weaponless first life Rogue (specialising in Int and taking a feat - Insightful Reflexes - that is entirely useless for that quest) to complete the quest on Elite with the level 1 Barbarian hire, having not completed any other quests aside from The Grotto.

If you are spawning 3 Champions (out of 15 total enemies), you have had very bad luck and I am sorry for you, and should try again (the good thing is that The Cannith Crystal is a 2 min quest). On the three attempts I made I averaged a single champion in each (and the red named in all but one), and never saw more than two at a time.

Or... are you trying to tell us that you are consistently seeing a 20% Champion spawn rate with the hardest possible combination of buffs?

Randomly meeting your doom reminds me of Nethack (which is also D&D based, loosely)
You fall into a pit! You land on a set of sharp iron spikes! --More--
The spikes were poisoned! The poison was deadly... --More--
Do you want your possessions identified?