Feedback: Unyielding Sentinel

[jejeba86]

What if they are the same amount (i.e. 3%) and are untyped?

Untyped bonuses generally stack (unless by some wild crazy chance the bonus really is typed and there's a bug in the text).

"Unless" is related to "generally". By his statement, they always stack, unless the bonus is not really untyped, but a misstype.

So, same amount should stack, based on Vargouille's statement.

[Vargouille]

What if they are the same amount (i.e. 3%) and are untyped?

For Doublestrike there isn't anything special about having the same value. Doublestrike bonuses aren't like Exceptional bonuses. They should stack.

[Gimpinator]

For Doublestrike there isn't anything special about having the same value. Doublestrike bonuses aren't like Exceptional bonuses. They should stack.

Sure would be nice if our Doublestrike value displayed on our character sheet somewhere.

[Cetus]

For Doublestrike there isn't anything special about having the same value. Doublestrike bonuses aren't like Exceptional bonuses. They should stack.

Can you be more specific about the stacking nature of doublestike items? Would having several items that grant identical bonuses stack?

Is it possible to have a doublestrike % chance in our character sheet (as mentioned by the poster above me)?

[Shade]

For Doublestrike there isn't anything special about having the same value. Doublestrike bonuses aren't like Exceptional bonuses. They should stack.

Pretty sure there is a coding limitation in the game engine that causes exact like item effects to not stack, no matter what they are, as they are considered the same source/bonus/etc.

Only except to that may be stuff on handwraps vs weapons, since they work different, so same named effects arent always the same.

So a double strike 3% belt and a google wouldnt stack.

But the destiny effect plus the item could, if internally they aren't coded exactly alike.

[Vargouille]

Pretty sure there is a coding limitation in the game engine that causes exact like item effects to not stack, no matter what they are, as they are considered the same source/bonus/etc.

Only except to that may be stuff on handwraps vs weapons, since they work different, so same named effects arent always the same.

So a double strike 3% belt and a google wouldnt stack.

But the destiny effect plus the item could, if internally they aren't coded exactly alike.

This is somewhat correct, and I could have been more detailed in my answers.

If the items are using the exact same effect, it's true that they likely won't stack. It's possible to have different effects granted by different items which would stack. But this usually isn't the case, especially for things like random loot or crafted loot, which generally put the same effect on different items, or dual-wielding the same named item.

This is true for most but not all effects generally, not just doublestrike, and possibly contributing to confusion.

[oradafu]

This is somewhat correct, and I could have been more detailed in my answers.

If the items are using the exact same effect, it's true that they likely won't stack. It's possible to have different effects granted by different items which would stack. But this usually isn't the case, especially for things like random loot or crafted loot, which generally put the same effect on different items, or dual-wielding the same named item.

This is true for most but not all effects generally, not just doublestrike, and possibly contributing to confusion.

This is going off topic a bit...

The character sheet really needs to be updated so players that have questionable concerns about adjustments about abilities and gear working together. It would be nice to have a place (the character sheet) so players can equip gear or click an ability or etc and see how (or if) it affects their build without having to guess.

Healing amp is probably the biggest one that needs to be added. It can be helpful for all players, but it would probably be most helpful for melee WF. Sometimes there's log-in bugs or equipped gear bugs that don't add Healing Amp properly and it's not until you're grouped up in a quest that it's found out. Not to mention the Healer's Friend bug.

Sorry for derailing this thread temporarily, but I think adding some of these things to the character sheet would save alot of time between players and Devs when it comes to some of these "does X stack with X" stuff.

[psteen1]

For Doublestrike there isn't anything special about having the same value. Doublestrike bonuses aren't like Exceptional bonuses. They should stack.

So, unless they come from items. Let me tell you- I hate stacking rules and they are a never ending source of confusion. And if we are talking about items that take a while to grind for (like an epic spare hand), not knowing how these stack is extremely aggravating. And can I twist in a double-strike affect and expect it to stack? I have no idea, and we are talking hours upon hours of potentially wasted time here.

[nibel]

This is somewhat correct, and I could have been more detailed in my answers.

If the items are using the exact same effect, it's true that they likely won't stack. It's possible to have different effects granted by different items which would stack. But this usually isn't the case, especially for things like random loot or crafted loot, which generally put the same effect on different items, or dual-wielding the same named item.

This is true for most but not all effects generally, not just doublestrike, and possibly contributing to confusion.

So, just trying to understand:

If I have a level 20 fighter with capstone, or an opportunist Rogue (10%), wielding a T3 Epic Cutthroat Smallblade (6%) and a Epic Swashbuckler (6%), the intended total double strike chance is 22%.

There might be a chance, however, that both "6% doublestrike bonus" in both items are scripted as the same, and do not stack, putting the combination into the 16% doublestrike chance.

The same character dual-wielding T3 epic Cutthroat Smallblades would be surelly at 16% because it's not intended for the blades to stack with each other.

The same character, wielding a T1 epic Cutthroat Smallblade (3%) in conjunction with either a T3 smallblade or swashbuckler would surely have 19% doublestrike chance because the effects are different.

[Cetus]

This is somewhat correct, and I could have been more detailed in my answers.

If the items are using the exact same effect, it's true that they likely won't stack. It's possible to have different effects granted by different items which would stack. But this usually isn't the case, especially for things like random loot or crafted loot, which generally put the same effect on different items, or dual-wielding the same named item.

This is true for most but not all effects generally, not just doublestrike, and possibly contributing to confusion.

The parts of your post that I highlighted in red are the main contributions to my confusion, regarding stackability of these effects.

Can you assign a piece of the character sheet UI to showing us our doublestrike % chance, otherwise we can sit here all week trying to elucidate the stacking nature of various items.

[Snarglefrump]

Doublestrike isn't like effects such as Flaming or Holy Burst, and can't trigger multiple times. It should be impossible to get Triplestrikes (or more!)... yet.

Huh. There have been several times in the live game where I hit Touch of Death and see 4 lines with Touch of Death damage. It sounds like there should be a max of 3 (Main-Hand, Doublestrike, and Off-Hand).

I actually spent some time with the training dummy, trying to see if I could produce a quadruple-strike, but I was never able to. I was only trying regular attacks and wasn't using my boosts (I have haste and damage boosts).

[sephiroth1084]

This is somewhat correct, and I could have been more detailed in my answers.

If the items are using the exact same effect, it's true that they likely won't stack. It's possible to have different effects granted by different items which would stack. But this usually isn't the case, especially for things like random loot or crafted loot, which generally put the same effect on different items, or dual-wielding the same named item.

This is true for most but not all effects generally, not just doublestrike, and possibly contributing to confusion.

Off-topic for the thread, but the character sheet really needs to be displaying our total double-strike bonus, incite, threat reduction, dodge, PRR, and healing amp. All of these new systems (and old ones) were confusing to begin with, and now we have new information that is even more confusing, along with redefined bonus types, unclear stacking rules, yada yada...

[SteeleTrueheart]

So, just trying to understand:

If I have a level 20 fighter with capstone, or an opportunist Rogue (10%), wielding a T3 Epic Cutthroat Smallblade (6%) and a Epic Swashbuckler (6%), the intended total double strike chance is 22%.

There might be a chance, however, that both "6% doublestrike bonus" in both items are scripted as the same, and do not stack, putting the combination into the 16% doublestrike chance.

The same character dual-wielding T3 epic Cutthroat Smallblades would be surelly at 16% because it's not intended for the blades to stack with each other.

The same character, wielding a T1 epic Cutthroat Smallblade (3%) in conjunction with either a T3 smallblade or swashbuckler would surely have 19% doublestrike chance because the effects are different.

I have tested this and can confirm that the smallblade and swashbuckler do not stack. See here

With the new effects log you can check what type of bonus an item gives you and knowing definitively that Vargouille has stated they are additive stacking you can work out what you have that does not stack with each other.

I wholeheartedly agree that the character sheet should have PRR, Dodge, Doublestrike and Threat. (Imagine having a character sheet that did not show your AC?)

[Vargouille]

Yes, we'd like to update the character sheet to include a ton more information. Certainly everything mentioned so far and more. We pretty much completely agree with all of those comments.

[Gimpinator]

Yes, we'd like to update the character sheet to include a ton more information. Certainly everything mentioned so far and more. We pretty much completely agree with all of those comments.

Unacceptable.

[Drwaz99]

Yes, we'd like to update the character sheet to include a ton more information. Certainly everything mentioned so far and more. We pretty much completely agree with all of those comments.

Is this something that might/hopeully happen for Monday? Or is it more likely going to be pushed back too?

[BruceTheHoon]

Yes, we'd like to update the character sheet to include a ton more information. Certainly everything mentioned so far and more. We pretty much completely agree with all of those comments.

Any ETA (patch 14.2, u15, u21, ...)?

[maddmatt70]

Unacceptable.

Why? The devs have other things to work on like these destinies for example and the enhancement pass, and new dungeons, and the list goes on and on. That they acknowledge they would like to do something about this at some point is great and will likely do so is also great.

[HarveyMilk]

/sarcasm check failed?

[Dingleburr]

Not sure if this has been pointed out already, as I haven't studied the whole thread, but...

I was initially thinking that this might be a good "healing battlecleric" destiny, with the melee focus and boost to turns to power radiant bursts & aura. However, I noticed that it lacks the +N caster level increases that Exalted Angel gets. I suspect that means that the EA destiny will result in better aura and burst healing than US will.

That seems to be a break from the existing model, where healing power / capability is largely independent of how you hurt stuff (whether via melee or slinging light spells).