Feedback: Unyielding Sentinel

[Glenalth]

Smite could cause a fortification penalty, AC debuff, to-hit debuff, or any number of other things to make it a bit more worthwhile using. If these were tied to crits, it would correspondingly make Exalted Smite more worthwhile, although I don't really want to push such an over-costed enhancement that much.

It does currently have a to-hit and saves debuff attached to it, but it is rather short.

[sephiroth1084]

It does currently have a to-hit and saves debuff attached to it, but it is rather short.

From what?

[etelan]

DoS isn't the only tank PrE in the game, so why does the Stalwart become the red headed stepchild of the tanking world? We have to go thru 4 levels of Grandmaster of
flowers to even become a comparatively viable tanking option when the expansion comes out.

Agreed that 4 levels of GoF is too tedious. Don't agree that US is the only viable option or that SD is a red headed stepchild.

[etelan]

I haven't checked 3.5 rules but I'm guessing that they don't get it in P&P so that would have been the original rational. Now that we're moving farther from base rules maybe it will be reconsidered at some point.

Yeah, Paladin's don't get tower shields in PnP. I'd be okay with it added to part of DoS, but it kind of sucks how inferior other shields are in ddo compared to pnp.

[Glenalth]

Agreed that 4 levels of GoF is too tedious. Don't agree that US is the only viable option or that SD is a red headed stepchild.

You're going to need to level random ones anyway for twists and that 4th level of GMoF gives you access to bypassing 10% fort, ghost touch, and bypassing concealment with one twist.

[bloodnose13]

I'd still like to see Smite Evil made more worthwhile the rest of the time, when it is doing +67 damage per activation. When you start a fight, that's pretty nice, but you quickly run through your smites and then end up with +67 damage 1/90 seconds (or 60 seconds if you invest in Epic Destiny ranks), which is rather poor, even with Exalted Smite increasing your chance to crit and crit damage. As an iconic paladin ability, it should probably do more.

I had proposed elsewhere several months ago that I'd like to see some abilities that change Smite Evil to chain (like Chain Lightning), or having combat effects tied to it (Trip, Stun, Sunder), or effects like Banishing and Disruption. I think these should come in the heroic levels, but a few of those, or something similar, could stand to make its way into Unyielding Sentinel.

Smite could cause a fortification penalty, AC debuff, to-hit debuff, or any number of other things to make it a bit more worthwhile using. If these were tied to crits, it would correspondingly make Exalted Smite more worthwhile, although I don't really want to push such an over-costed enhancement that much.

smite variant "smite the wicked" that exalted angel gets is much better (x3 char level instead of just char level to damage) than what exalted smite has to offer, but its spell point based, sp cost of 10 for a paladin would drain him in seconds, so maybe sentinel should get a variant of this smite based off smites

also confront any foe seems still low damage for a cost of turn undead that is IF at all is returning/regenerating with a destiny upgrade does not return that fast to be realy usefull, again exalted angel gets an attack that with cooldown of 15 seconds deals 10d100 damage (judgement)

attack enchancements of unyealding sentinel when compared to other destinies are very weak and/or costly based on what class its meant for mainly

i would understand if confront any foe was working like divine sacrifice with similar costs then maybe damage level of it would be good enough but otherwise its not.

also intolerant blow +3[w] for one hit is not very visible, from damage levels i seen its about same as getting a critical hit and i yet would need to see it crit what i guess would show some better damage, i think damage wise it should have some additional effects with bit longer cooldown (as example, +3[w], +3 to crit range and +3 to crit multiplier for 1 hit) one massive hit every now and then

[sephiroth1084]

The paladin's smite evil mechanic is 7+(3xpaladin level).

[Carpone]

Anoint Weapon requires too many prerequisites and is too restrictive. Compare it against GMOF's Dancing with Flame which is also a tier5 ability, but requires zero prerequisites and has zero restrictions for the +3 attack, +3 damage and Fire Resistance 12. It only gets better in Sun Stance with a +0.75[W] bonus. Anoint Weapon needs to provide the Holy attribute regardless of what stance you're in, with some other effect included for being in Stand Against the Tide stance.

The prerequisite Ward Against Evil (another tier5 ability!) is suboptimal at a cost of 3 AP for 7 damage (average at third rank) every time an enemy attacks. At the very least, extend the idea from the Draconic Incarnation ability Energy Sheath and include a blast effect for 4d20 + 100 Light damage with 5/10/15% proc chance against Evil.

Spark of Life is a neat mechanic, but it doesn't feel epic as a tier 4 ability. It feels like something that would be added to an auto grant -- would like to see it replace Diehard in Unbreakable stance which is a terrible feat (even if it's "free"). Spark of Life is also 2 wasted AP when you consider every single tank will have Death Ward when it's needed (more often to avoid negative levels).

Undying Vanguard is not attractive. Consider adding a point blank AoE Light damage blast when it's triggered.

US along with Fury of the Wild are the only destinies to have one tier6 ability besides a stat increase. I think that's where some of the underwhelming feeling with this destiny comes from. It just doesn't feel epic enough.

Intolerant Blow: Is the hate generated by the "1000 damage" modified by Incite gear and Stand Against the Tide threat generation?

[artistx]

please have unyielding sentinal grant caster lvls for divines! Shiradi Champion grants caster lvls for druids and rangers... and a Paladin is to a Cleric what a Ranger is to a Druid so why not have unyielding grant lvls?

[Venny]

Update: Testing Stand against the Tide against Astral panthers.... I was not knocked down so it seems to be working just fine for me. However my partner was knocked over constantly hehehehe.

Light the Dark - Heals me for 270 standard (Healing amp) And can crit on others or myself for 450. Not sure if that is WAI but it is pretty cool regardless.

[Carpone]

Purify Weapon and Anoint Weapon are not applied to shields when shield bashing. Didn't test Fanaticism, but suspect that doesn't apply either. Please modify them so they apply their effects to shields. Thanks.

[DeadRabbat]

I decided to play with this on my monk a little last night.
Though not for monks really it still can be effective. I too noticed the healing amp not stacking.

What i noticed as i blew through Sub-T and was building up my counter for Undying Vanguard... the same thing happened here as it did on my Everything Is Nothing. When in an instance, be it a quest or wilderness area, 3/4 of the time w/US UV & all the time with GMoF EiN, that If you go into a new area through a portal or door, you lose everything from your counter. Getting to 500 on UV is daunting (not for solo...easy) if in a group & then too see it all go away..i wanted to cry (pretend cry not real cry).

Now granted, my normally 687hp(unbuffed) monk was sitting at 900+ hp with US and my damage taken was minimal but i was hoping to test UV and didn't get to.

This needs to be addressed.. where the counters don't reset when going from one part of an instance to another. I hate to see what happens in Shroud.
Just my 2bits.
DR.

[yakamototsunami]

Hardened doesn't seem to be appearing on my AC, even stripped down all my equipment to see if any change. Also abilities from various trees give untyped AC bonus, any chance of them being updated as to what type its going to be, even if they are showing as Natural AC bonus, it will help people out.

[Vargouille]

Light the Dark - Heals me for 270 standard (Healing amp) And can crit on others or myself for 450. Not sure if that is WAI but it is pretty cool regardless.

This is intended to be increased by both the Sentinel's spellpower and the recipients healing amp, so the initial 150 isn't actually likely to be what's seen in game for most players. The enhancement below it, Healing Hands, even gives you 25 Positive Spell Power.

Purify Weapon and Anoint Weapon are not applied to shields when shield bashing. Didn't test Fanaticism, but suspect that doesn't apply either. Please modify them so they apply their effects to shields. Thanks.

This is fixed internally. They are definitely intended to work with shields.

[Captain_Wizbang]

There are plans to add Intimidate and at least some to-hit bonuses.

A pretty good size bump would help.
Other than that I like the ED.

[Vargouille]

Hardened doesn't seem to be appearing on my AC, even stripped down all my equipment to see if any change. Also abilities from various trees give untyped AC bonus, any chance of them being updated as to what type its going to be, even if they are showing as Natural AC bonus, it will help people out.

Hmmm, sounds like a bug. Thanks for letting us know, this is the first report we've had that Hardened isn't improving your AC, though it wouldn't show up as "Hardened" in the AC tooltip.

[bloodnose13]

This is intended to be increased by both the Sentinel's spellpower and the recipients healing amp, so the initial 150 isn't actually likely to be what's seen in game for most players. The enhancement below it, Healing Hands, even gives you 25 Positive Spell Power.

2 points for enchancement that gives 25 spell power is bit much to consider on pally, but thats just my opinion, and i mean on pally that already has layon hands.

i personaly think that costs of those enchancements that give pally effects that they already have should be lowered for that class to 1 since they get only part of the effect granted by it, i know this that when i was getting my unyealding sentinel up the levels i dropped those effects due to too high point cost as there were other usefull effects, dont say they are not usefull but cost makes them useless. maybe it calls for a change that enchancement cost should be lower to the class its meant for, and i mean only those effects that grant things that are class specific, ......cant say btw im realy happy that everyone can get layons or smites on any char or build, those things are main paladin diffrence to other classes and giveing it to everyone cheapens the class.

[Dunklerlindwurm]

If i have the Half-Elf dilletant feat-Paladin

and use the Unyielding-Sentinel-Lay on Hands... do the extra Paladin Levels from the Dilletant feat count for this?

[maddmatt70]

Regarding Tier 6 of this destiny is there a reason why there is only two options -one being +1 charisma or +1 constitution? I would not mind a third option. The 20 second tier 6 is nice but only lasts so long. Just a thought that adding another ability would be nice. I have been doing some more thinking on this destiny and I am not sold on it for non paladin tanks - it seems like it could use a non healing or non smite ability at level 6 to put it over the hump.

[maddmatt70]

Spark of Life is a neat mechanic, but it doesn't feel epic as a tier 4 ability. It feels like something that would be added to an auto grant -- would like to see it replace Diehard in Unbreakable stance which is a terrible feat (even if it's "free"). Spark of Life is also 2 wasted AP when you consider every single tank will have Death Ward when it's needed (more often to avoid negative levels).

Undying Vanguard is not attractive. Consider adding a point blank AoE Light damage blast when it's triggered.

US along with Fury of the Wild are the only destinies to have one tier6 ability besides a stat increase. I think that's where some of the underwhelming feeling with this destiny comes from. It just doesn't feel epic enough.

Yes I was thinking actually that for a fighter tank LD with some twists from this destiny or other destinys is better.