Let's Talk: Enhancements!

[grodon9999]

I think that the current list of racial unlock trees were:

Dwarf: Stalwart Defender
Warforged: Stalwart Defender
Halfling: Assassin
Half-Orc: Ravager
Elf: Arcane Archer
Drow: Tempest
Human: Pick one. (Slightly higher investment in Racial tree required to unlock.)
Half-Elf: Arcane Archer, Human, Elf (Yes, in our current plan they can unlock racial trees from the other races if desired. They might be able to go Half-Elf tree -> Human tree -> Any PrE through gargantuan AP expenditures.)

These are still subject to change. (Especially that Human part.)


Yes, you can take both of those to 3. (It would take most of your action points to do so.)

When I stop drooling I might be able to compose a coherent reply, but this is all UBBER and I friggin LOVE it.

[BossOfEarth]

Please oh please consider something else for warforged. Having them copy the rightful dwarven line just doesn't seem right. The main other consideration...

Greatswords

Seriously, think of all the warforged clerics/favored souls/paladins out there who by following the one true path of the Lord of Blades will never touch a shield. I'm not sure what other path would be appropriate, but please make it one of them that works well with greatswords.

Quoted For Truth

[Carpone]

Paladins: I always thought it was lame that paladins had to pay 2 AP for the "Follower of <deity>" when divine casters got it for free.

Wizard/Sorcerer/FvS/Cleric: The Spell Penetration enhancements are over costed. 4 AP for the second and 6 AP for the third tier and it only provides +1 spell penetration? Ludicrous! It should be 2 AP per tier with three tiers purchasable.

[Taimasan]

A Horc monk with improved crit range?? /drool

[Calebro]

When I stop drooling I might be able to compose a coherent reply, but this is all UBBER and I friggin LOVE it.

Agreed.
Here's to the Dwarven Ranger 12 / Paladin 7 / Monk 1 (Defender 3 / Tempest 2 / KotC 1) that we've been dreaming about!

[Shade]

A Horc monk with improved crit range?? /drool

heh.. If they just give ravager bbn critical rage..
Well no, it wont be possible.

You see crit rage, as the name imply only works while raged.

Monks have a hard time raging, being lawful and all.

I guess you could for 30 seconds tho, with the past life rage clicker =)

Perhaps they could enhance that so we can all play a uber barbarian dragonmonk that we all dreamed of.. heh.

[EatSmart]

We've been discussing some possible changes to Dragonmarks as well. The Extra Dragonmark enhancement is likely to change into an "Improved Dragonmark" enhancement that grants both additional uses and other perks. We've also been debating turning the Lesser and Greater marks into enhancements that have the Least mark as a prerequisite, freeing up some feats on Dragonmark builds.

If you do go down this line, is there any chance you could consider adding the option to invest further APs into the dragonmark to unlock a Spell-Like Ability version of one of the marks? Possibly some inspiration could be drawn from how the archmagi slas are costed. Big neon lights are flashing in my head about how OP some of them could potentially be (eg Heal SLA on a house j sorc) but I'm sure there are balanced solutions to the idea.

Ditto some of the active past life spells would be more fun if they unlocked the ability to buy their functionality as a SLA with some AP investment.

[Don1966]

Paladins: I always thought it was lame that paladins had to pay 2 AP for the "Follower of <deity>" when divine casters got it for free.

Wizard/Sorcerer/FvS/Cleric: The Spell Penetration enhancements are over costed. 4 AP for the second and 6 AP for the third tier and it only provides +1 spell penetration? Ludicrous! It should be 2 AP per tier with three tiers purchasable.

clerics have to spend 2 AP as well.

[Phemt81]

Awesome. Are you going to expand the list of powers on offer for the marks, say giving Greater Teleport to Passage-marked Humans with a certain level?

Wrong example; there is a known bug (to players) about that dragonmark line.

[oradafu]

My thoughts about what I'm reading so far...

I'm glad to see the Enhancement UI will get looked at. I'm not sure if I'd go so far as redoing it completely. I think simple making sure the collapsed lists don't reset when something is selected and dividing the enhancements into "racial", "class", "skill", "prestige class", etc categories would be enough.

With regard to re-doing Enhancements at the same time (and it appears to be adding/finishing Prestige classes), I'm a bit worried that it is too much at one time. It needs to be done, but I'm fearful that there's a chance of too many things breaking at once.

With that said, I'm glad to see that Enhancements are being looked at. It appears that the focus is mostly on Melee enhancements (which need it since Caster enhancements for the most part got a makeover in Update 9). I hope that racial enhancements get more than a glance though. Others have pointed to the Halfling Guile and Cunning line, which needs help, but I'd like to point out the Halfling Thrown Weapon line. I'm hoping that maybe Halflings could get a passive speed attack with thrown weapons. Unlike other other racial weapon bonuses, the Thrown weapon is a situational weapon (usually) yet Halflings (at least to me) appear to throw at the same rate as anyone else.

I'm glad there's interest in looking at Dragonmarks. Please make the Least Dragonmark the only feat necessary, while making the other tiers a AP cost. Even if it's a steep cost, since the Dragonmarks should be a bit rare. Also, I'm glad to hear that their might be a boost to Dragonmarks. One idea that I thought might be nice is to give the Dragonmark bear a passive +1 loot bonus on quests of the same house. For example, +1 loot will be given everytime Halflings with Dragonmarks do any House J quest, Elves with Dragonmarks do any House P quest, Humans with Making Dragonmarks do House C quests, etc.

A few thoughts about the Racial Prestige classes. First, I hope this isn't one of the things put into the equation to boost melee classes since all the Prestige classes except for Human seem to be melee based. Second, I agree with everyone else who said that WF needs something other than Defender, but I don't know what a good option would be. Third, I hope this doesn't spell the end of more "original" racial prestige classes like WF Juggernaut, Dwarf Defender or Luckstealer... (Yes, I know Luckstealer was never in the cards but I always had hope that it had a chance to appear).

[Havok.cry]

I will be unable to play DDO for a while as all my characters are currently shadow-humping various devs. If you see any of the following please send them back to my character select screen:

soon to be warforged defender palemaster archmage
soon to be dwarven defender earth monk
soon to be helf arcane archer deepwood sniper (something else)
soon to be human water air (something else) savant (could a human savant add acid to this mess?)
soon to be halfling spellsinging assassin bard
soon to be drow tempest assassin
soon to be human solar pheonix radiant servant
soon to be drow tempest ninja spy
soon to be dwarven defender exploiter build

There are more but they are still in the early formative levels so I just put them down and will craft them into something new at the right time.

[red_cardinal]

Stances are one way to preserve some of the stacking issues we didn't have to worry about before.

I hope you come up with a stance to change Manyshot - can fire multiple arrows, but at the cost of -2/-3/-4 to hit.

Also, firing speed of bows would be appreciated. My guess is that you can't change "1d8 - 20/x3" for normal longbows, but usage of longbows by a non-AA should do damage.

Also, firing distance shouldn't be infinite (how far the eye can see [client setup]).

Some of the tree enhancements will have feat prereqs, (i.e. can't get Improved Power Attack without Power Attack...) but we're trying to keep the specific requirements of enhancements as simple to understand as possible.

I hope you add Improved stunning blow and revise old feats. I mean, this would be an important update.

Shoot on the run doesn't work when character is running around with a bow. There's still -4 to hit there.
Slicing blow should scale with BAB and work with slashing weapons only. (it kinda sounds best)
Mobile spellcasting should be a viable feat for a caster.
...

I know these are details, but they're important IMHO, since this wasn't being looked at for 3+ years.

[red_cardinal]

I think that the current list of racial unlock trees were:

Dwarf: Stalwart Defender
Warforged: Stalwart Defender
Halfling: Assassin
Half-Orc: Ravager
Elf: Arcane Archer
Drow: Tempest
Human: Pick one. (Slightly higher investment in Racial tree required to unlock.)
Half-Elf: Arcane Archer, Human, Elf (Yes, in our current plan they can unlock racial trees from the other races if desired. They might be able to go Half-Elf tree -> Human tree -> Any PrE through gargantuan AP expenditures.)

These are still subject to change. (Especially that Human part.)

Human: Pick one. - hmm, don't think their adaptability should be so extended. But, they're humans and they mate with anyone, so... I guess it's doable.

Warforged: Juggernaught (?)
Drow: Scorpion wraith (?) instead of tempest.

It will depend on the enhancement. Something like "Stealthy" (replacing Improved Hide and Improved Move Silently) will be +1 per rank. Certain special attacks and other bonuses are likely to be more frontloaded.

When in sneak mode, add ability to use objects without breaking stealth (some roll check on nearby mobs). This might give sneaking through quests some more appeal.

Also, when Sniper shot is executed - mobs rush to location where action took place from, but they follow you endlessly even though your stealthed. They never stop. They should stop at some point in space and time. I tried this in Kobolds new ringleader and in Searing heights.

[Kmnh]

Please, keep the action points system. Trees would eat up customizing possibilities. I see that it makes it easier for a newbie to make a cookie cutter build, but if I wanted to play a wow/diablo clone I would be playing sw:tor instead.

[red_cardinal]

Bloodstone as one of the most valuable trinkets in the game for so many years.

Yes, but if Power critical feat would grant +4 to confirm critical and +4 to critical damage, I don't think it would be so valuable - unless it would stack.

[Havok.cry]

Please oh please consider something else for warforged. Having them copy the rightful dwarven line just doesn't seem right. The main other consideration...

Greatswords

Seriously, think of all the warforged clerics/favored souls/paladins out there who by following the one true path of the Lord of Blades will never touch a shield. I'm not sure what other path would be appropriate, but please make it one of them that works well with greatswords.

/signed

[red_cardinal]

Please, keep the action points system. Trees would eat up customizing possibilities. I see that it makes it easier for a newbie to make a cookie cutter build, but if I wanted to play a wow/diablo clone I would be playing sw:tor instead.

Technically, we have trees already, it's only how you show them on screen. :P
The way trees are now, they only require some more Bonsai techniques.

[zebidos]

I think that the current list of racial unlock trees were:

Dwarf: Stalwart Defender
Warforged: Stalwart Defender
Halfling: Assassin
Half-Orc: Ravager
Elf: Arcane Archer
Drow: Tempest
Human: Pick one. (Slightly higher investment in Racial tree required to unlock.)
Half-Elf: Arcane Archer, Human, Elf (Yes, in our current plan they can unlock racial trees from the other races if desired. They might be able to go Half-Elf tree -> Human tree -> Any PrE through gargantuan AP expenditures.)

These are still subject to change. (Especially that Human part.)


Yes, you can take both of those to 3. (It would take most of your action points to do so.)


It will depend on the enhancement. Something like "Stealthy" (replacing Improved Hide and Improved Move Silently) will be +1 per rank. Certain special attacks and other bonuses are likely to be more frontloaded.


One of the stretch goals is to have additional acquirable abilities for the Dragonmarks. These may not make it in the initial release. (Improved Dragonmark of Healing -> Jorasco Jadehand)

Sounds awesome, can you take multiples though?

For e.g. I have a halfling barbarian with 2 rogue, IF this doesnt change would I be able to take the full frenzied berzerker line up to barbarian 18 AND Assasin?

If so sounds wonderful! This game needs a bit of a jolt from the usual only good melee is half orc or warforged silliness.

[oradafu]

Sounds awesome, can you take multiples though?

For e.g. I have a halfling barbarian with 2 rogue, IF this doesnt change would I be able to take the full frenzied berzerker line up to barbarian 18 AND Assasin?

If so sounds wonderful! This game needs a bit of a jolt from the usual only good melee is half orc or warforged silliness.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like if you have a Halfling Barbarian, you can drop the rogue levels and become a pure Barbarian and gain both FB III and Assassin III but with a heavy AP cost.

[pharky]

while many people remain convinced that all this is overpowered. i feel that eventually APs would be the more restricting factor when it comes to character building. so many overpowered builds, but they will probably have to sacrifice AP somewhere else which would be fair. at least thats what i think the devs intentions are.