Traps doing redonkulous damage on elite.

[Phemt81]

explained it all very clearly

Hey, hey, hey, now i see why you call yourself "mad"; start explaining them what "running on proper level" mean first...
/sarcasm off

Awesome! This will reward good players/well made parties better! I'm already loving it!!!

[MadFloyd]

Makes sense to me.

So repeating quests doesn't give you anything. These Bravery bonuses only apply for first runs of a quest?

Correct.

[Hollowgolem]

Let me try to explain it.

If a quest has never been run by your character (i.e. it's 'virgin' to him/her) then you qualify to get a Bravery bonus by running it on either hard or elite.

Failing and trying multiple times doesn't matter.

Once you complete it on either hard or elite, you get a Bravery Bonus. This is on top of the one time difficulty bonus that you already enjoy.

Now, this quest is no longer 'vrigin' and you're free to re-run it 10,000 times without having it affect future Bravery bonuses.

Now you go and complete another virgin quest on hard or elite. This starts a streak. Now you get the one time difficulty bonus, plus a bravery bonus PLUS an additional bonus for having a streak going.

Streaks stack up to 5 times and a completion of Elite counts as both a Hard AND Elite streak. In other words, if you complete Elite 3 times in a row, your streaks look like:

Hard: 3
Elite: 3

A hard streak is 5% per and elite is 10%, so you would get a 30% bonus in this case.

If you end up completing the next virgin quest on Hard, your Elite streak is reset but Hard continues:

Hard: 4
Elite: 0

In this case you get a 20% bonus (4 x 5%).

You can start your Elite streak back up, but because we always apply the highest bonus, you would get 25% for Hard (5 x 5%) until your Elite streak bonus surpassed the Hard streak bonus.

I'm writing this quickly, sorry if I'm not being clear.

MF

So what happens if you run a quest for the first time on elite, run another 4 quests for the first time on elite, and then run the first quest (which you've already run) on normal? Does that reset the counter?

[MadFloyd]

So is there a particular reason why you feel that premuim players should not recieve the same incentives that VIPs do?

I'm not following, Cyr.

[Hollowgolem]

I'm not following, Cyr.

Premium players can't open a quest their first time running it on hard/elite. They have to have a VIP in the party for this bonus to ever be available w/o one-time-use store opens.

[MadFloyd]

So what happens if you run a quest for the first time on elite, run another 4 quests for the first time on elite, and then run the first quest (which you've already run) on normal? Does that reset the counter?

Nope. We're trying to make it flexible enough to not overly complicate grouping. Once a quest is no longer 'virgin' to you, it cannot affect your streak counters.

'Brave' basically means 'This character has never run this quest. Instead of starting with Normal (or casual for that matter), I'll challenge myself by playing it on Hard or Elite.'

Once you've successfully completed the quest on any difficulty then your character is familiar with it and doesn't qualify for further bravery bonuses on that quest.

[The_Phenx]

WHats wrong with vip's getting something VIP.

I like it... encourages folks to spread the love and not just farm 6 quests over and over.

Oh and a FTP can follow aorund wiht a VIP and get all access.. thats how me and my daughter roll...

[Cyr]

I'm not following, Cyr.

Premium players do not have the option to simply open quests on elite the first time. Therefore the incentive structure that you are altering for VIPs is not being altered in the same manner for premium players.

The incentive is not magicallly restored by incredibly pricy unlock tokens being in the store.

The ENTIRE concept here is big FIRST TIME bonuses for people doing stuff on elite after all.

[TheGish]

{ nevermind, others already said it better }

[Magnyr_Delorn]

So is there a particular reason why you feel that premuim players should not recieve the same incentives that VIPs do?

Ummm...to incentivize VIP. This is a no-brainer.

[Cyr]

Nope. We're trying to make it flexible enough to not overly complicate grouping. Once a quest is no longer 'virgin' to you, it cannot affect your streak counters.

'Brave' basically means 'This character has never run this quest. Instead of starting with Normal (or casual for that matter), I'll challenge myself by playing it on Hard or Elite.'

Once you've successfully completed the quest on any difficulty then your character is familiar with it and doesn't qualify for further bravery bonuses on that quest.

Yes and what difficulty can a premium player open up a dungeon on the first time?

Would they recieve this bonus on that difficulty?

Would they havae that bonus reset for other quest runs by doing the quest the first time on that difficulty?

[MadFloyd]

Premium players can't open a quest their first time running it on hard/elite. They have to have a VIP in the party for this bonus to ever be available w/o one-time-use store opens.

Ahhh, OK I see where you're coming from. Well, technically they don't need a VIP, they just need someone who has access to Hard and that can be a premium player who has already completed the quest on Normal.

[dkyle]

I'm not following, Cyr.

It tremendously amplifies the benefit of VIPs getting to open quests on Elite.

Premiums now need to spend TP every time they want to gain this bonus, or group with an opener.

I have to say, this sounds a little ridiculous to me. It presents a tremendous disincentive to run anything on Normal or Hard the first time, which is a huge problem for new players, but only a minor inconvenience to Vets. It also doesn't do much to help TRs. I was expecting a reason to rerun quests on Elite, not just move the single Elite run that was already worth doing, to the front, with massively more XP from that single run.

Sounds like instead of NNNNNNNNNHE, we'll have ENNNNNNNNH. Not much of an improvement...

[der_kluge]

Yeah, I've been killed doing an elite L5 Syndicate run on my L20 Sorc. Buffed to the max, DR and stuff. The one with the items trapped. Take and then whole room electrical damage .. pingpingpingpingpingping ... ding!

Oh oops

If you have a sufficient amount of Spot, you can isolate which pedastal ISN'T trapped in that room. It takes a bit of maneuvering to see when your alarm bells go off, and when they go away, though. But it can be done.

[Cyr]

That's cool I've been pretty clear that I'm not spending anymore money on Turbine products in the future. This certainly goes a long ways towards making me happy with that decision.

[Gratch]

Wow... this is a huge bonus to VIP TR'ing. Even as a Premium Owner of DDO, I think those "VIP" renters need something for their monthly payment. Good move.

The rest of us will just have to get 2nd (and 3rd and ???) accounts to open stuff. Though that won't help with chained or non-door-entry questing unless you have extra accounts at every level each owning their associated levels of packs.

This is also the point where we ask you to add to the DDO-Store a 6 hour potion of entry at any difficulty item. What's the current stuff? 1 hour?

Any chance you could add OWNER title to an account. Anyone who owns All packs in the game can open quests on HARD to start.

[ainmosni]

That's cool I've been pretty clear that I'm not spending anymore money on Turbine products in the future. This certainly goes a long ways towards making me happy with that decision.

this

this entire xp thing is just a sugar coated incentive to make free to players go VIP

im free to play, always have, but ive spent a LOT of money on this game. certainly more than an average of 10 bucks a month. i felt like i owned the game though!

now i feel like i paid more to play 'ddo lite'.

im considering going VIP, but paying for a game i thought id already paid for would make me feel like ive been robbed

[B0ltdrag0n]

Thank you for the explanation MadFLoyd it is no where near as bad as I had originally thought, and actually sounds quite nice not to mention the extra bonus for hard and elite for the first time even with not stack.

[Coldin]

Premium players can't open a quest their first time running it on hard/elite. They have to have a VIP in the party for this bonus to ever be available w/o one-time-use store opens.

That is a good point. As a premium player, I can't open Hard or Elite. Luckily most of my friends are VIPs, but this would make it difficult to take advantage of the incentive to run elite quests to start.

(Just a thought, but since VIPs already can open quests on Elite, why not let Premium players open up quests on Hard.)

Edit: And no. I have no intention of becoming a VIP for any extended length of time (if at all). Unfortunately, the way the quest pack purchasing works, the incentives to be VIP begin vanishing quickly with every Premium purchase.

[Shade]

Ahhh, OK I see where you're coming from. Well, technically they don't need a VIP, they just need someone who has access to Hard and that can be a premium player who has already completed the quest on Normal.

or a difficulty unlock token.

Would be nice to throw premium players a bone by having those tokens drop in loot now tho. Even better woudl be if youd bravery stat actually had some effect on your chance of looting those.