Epic Raids: where to start

[Khumbaaba]

Hi,

I'm taking part in organizing epic raids for my guild. I've been along on a few, but don't know which would be best for a group that might not be very experienced in epic raiding.

I'm wondering if the community has some experiences or knowledge that might be helpful for us.

tyvm in advance.

[krackythehoodedone]

Well ATM their is only two.

EDQ2 is only a pain because you have to get two groups of six through flag first. Then really simple strategy for an almost 100% success.

Evon6 This really needs the bases co-ordinating and the right classes with the right skills.

All you really need to do is run these quests yourself until you are confident you know them and can teach the others.

Find someone who is willing to take you all through and explain/mentor as you go.

I hate leading Evon but if your on Khyber i'll volunteer to run you through EDQ2.

[EatSmart]

I'd definately go for chronoscope. There are 3 bosses in the raid, so you can work your way through the raid learning to beat each boss, and being able to walk away from a failed run with some measure of reward.

[TheDjinnFor]

Epic Raids?

So that'd be either Epic Zawabi's Revenge (aka Epic Demon Queen 2, or eDQ2) or Epic Plane of Night (aka Epic Vault of Night 6, or evon6). There's only 2 epic raids, unless when you say 'Epic Raids' you mean anything that gives out shards (e.g. Into the Deep in the Red Fens, which is a long 6-man quest).

Both require you to complete the previous quest in the chain, called the pre-raids (eDQ2 requires an Against the Demon Queen aka DQ1 completion, while evon6 requires Vault of Night) to do it, so you'll need one person who knows what they are doing and can direct the party (both pre-raids have quirks and can take a long time for an inexperienced group.

The actual raids themselves are quite simple. I would thing eDQ2 is a good place to start, since it's a simpler raid and has a simpler pre-raid: get yourself at least 2 casters who can knock down the queen off her perch, and at least 2 healers to keep everyone up, then fill the other 8 spots with DPS (have at least 4 melees, I find). All should have over 350 hp (or have a clue what to do) to do the ball up method.

The most efficient way to take on the queen is to ball up in front of her; damage is rather dispersed (gnoll sharpshooters perched up top will be firing at you and spinning blades fly through the platform you stand on and hit hard) so mass healing is crucial, and the queen will knock down anything she moves through as well as anything near her tail. Put the melees in the front of the ball and the ranged/casters/healing in the back.

I can run you through either raid if you're on Thelanis.

[Xenostrata]

Three raids atm (4, counting eVON5).

eDQ2 - reasonably easy, teaches you NOTHING about epic raiding - good for reward, not for a learning experience.
eVON6 - easy if you have good coordination. Good for learning some mechanics, and once you get past the pillars expect to complete.
eChrono - Hard as ****. Don't expect to complete this one. However, I would point out that this is probably the best option for learning how epics work. If you choose this one, watch the skies for flyers: if you don't, you'll wipe before the first boss fight.

[krackythehoodedone]

See i knew i'd missed one..lol

Make that three raids. or E Von 5 for 4 doh

Endfight in E Chrono would be mega tough if you are all fairly new.

EDQ2 definitely gives best chance of success if you have a leader that knows it well.

You will need Mari beaters..ie cold iron/good

And 400+ hit points on each toon inc casters

[PNellesen]

EDQ2 definitely gives best chance of success if you have a leader that knows it well.

You will need Mari beaters..ie cold iron/good

And 400+ hit points on each toon inc casters

What's it like to heal EADQ2? My clerics both have HP in the mid to high 400s, they both have over 2KSP, they both have Baubles, and they both have Conc. Opp. items. One has a Torc, and the other will hopefully have one soon. I have an ok supply of pots, but I really hate using them (and very seldom do.) I've done 0-pot Elite VoD, EVoN6, and a number of ToDs, and based on some of the other non-raid Epics I've done, it seems like both of them are probably ready to tackle something like EADQ. I've been really leery about attempting it though, mainly because I can't imagine how much damage the Queen puts out on Epic, given how hard she hits on Elite (I'm afraid I'm going to glance away for a second, then turn back and see that the party wiped because I missed a single Burst/Heal/Cure.)

[Sarisa]

What's it like to heal EADQ2? My clerics both have HP in the mid to high 400s, they both have over 2KSP, they both have Baubles, and they both have Conc. Opp. items. One has a Torc, and the other will hopefully have one soon. I have an ok supply of pots, but I really hate using them (and very seldom do.) I've done 0-pot Elite VoD, EVoN6, and a number of ToDs, and based on some of the other non-raid Epics I've done, it seems like both of them are probably ready to tackle something like EADQ. I've been really leery about attempting it though, mainly because I can't imagine how much damage the Queen puts out on Epic, given how hard she hits on Elite (I'm afraid I'm going to glance away for a second, then turn back and see that the party wiped because I missed a single Burst/Heal/Cure.)

Usually, I get by with only using 1 Major at the most. It depends a lot on the quality of the melees, and how fast the casters and ranged users can get her off the platform and into the middle.

When you have a good bard, and all melees can break her DR or have eSoS's, and Efreeti are taken down fast, it's a breeze to heal. Just some mass cures, use the Bauble when you have a moment where she and efreeti aren't bearing down on you.

When you don't have bard song, and some of the melees are squishy or can't break DR, then it can drag on and really drain your SP fast.

If you have someone lagging badly, or in the process of disconnecting, that can wipe the raid by "queue'ing up" damage and having all of it fire at once.

She hits for 40-50 per hit, plus additional damage to lawful and/or good players due to the added damage die from her weapons. Archers do 40-60 per hit. Blades hit for 40-60 per hit if you fail the reflex save.

[krackythehoodedone]

Healing EADQ2 is very very simple.

You need quicken and you need the short fast mass cures on your hotbar.

Ie mclw/mcmw/mcsw & mccw. Just keep these coming every two/three secs when Demon aint about

Then fire off one after another when she is. With your SP and a good party you wont use any pots.

Reason behind above is the nasty lag spikes you get. Mass Heal takes way too long.

So keep the heals short and sharp. Go with three healers if you can

[DragonMageT]

Healing EADQ2 is very very simple.

You need quicken and you need the short fast mass cures on your hotbar.

Ie mclw/mcmw/mcsw & mccw. Just keep these coming every two/three secs when Demon aint about

Then fire off one after another when she is. With your SP and a good party you wont use any pots.

Reason behind above is the nasty lag spikes you get. Mass Heal takes way too long.

So keep the heals short and sharp. Go with three healers if you can

Very good advice.

The only thing I would add is to use your bauble early, in between blades and when the Queen is not down.
2nd time she pearches. You have a short window before all **** breaks lose.

[somenewnoob]

Kind of a dumb question, but to run the epic raids do you have to run the pre raids on epic too or can you run casual pre and epic raid?

[Sarisa]

Kind of a dumb question, but to run the epic raids do you have to run the pre raids on epic too or can you run casual pre and epic raid?

DQ is typically two groups running the pre on Casual for the fastest completion, then combine into one epic raid group.

VoN is typically a normal pre, followed by the epic raid at the end (door inside VoN5).

Chrono has no pre-reqs, and VoN5 is rarely done on epic to completion.

[somenewnoob]

K, thanks. Just hit 20 not too long ago so wasn't sure if you had to run both on epic. Have only been on devil assault epic so far.

[Barazon]

Kind of a dumb question, but to run the epic raids do you have to run the pre raids on epic too or can you run casual pre and epic raid?

You can flag on casual and raid on hard. This is true for DQ2 (you do DQ1 in two groups anyway, and many people do casual to get it done quickly), and VON6 (you can step into VON5 on normal, get it done quickly, and then open VON6 on epic). In both cases, remember that since your goal is to end in epic, that everyone coming along should be level 20. VON5 is a poor choice for epic: resources are often used (mana potions, etc), and the rewards simply are not worth it (2 dungeon tokens as a raid reward and very very poor drop rates on seals and scrolls). DQ1 is all about conserving resources also: the center area and 6 side tunnels plus two boss fights, with only one shrine.

You might also want to 'warm up' with some epic dungeons if you haven't already. Another reason is that people need the seals and scrolls, which in most cases (except Chronoscope) drop in places other than the raids. VON1 is a nice starting point, Wizking can be done with people new to epics as long as at least one person knows it well and knows which spells to take, etc. Other places like House P and some of the House D epic dungeons aren't too bad for first timers either.

The best thing to do is have some people join PUGs to learn how things are done, then bring that back to the rest of the guild. Go in with a 'learning it' attitude and don't be disappointed if you don't win the first time.

[Khumbaaba]

Thanks for the advise everyone.

I've done most quest series on epic, just not the raids. I'm on orien and look for epic raid pugs all the time, but I've never seen one posted. Suppose I can always post myself with a "need guide/mentor" line. I've been discouraged by regular pug raids lvling up on several toons as some seem more concerned with their URBERDPS than working as a team. I can only imagine the nightmare a pug epic would be. That said, my guild is large and pugging isn't something I have to do very often at all.

thanks again.