Wait... why is Heavy for essential

[Sirea]

note: if you have a 479 hp palemaster who melees, the above does not apply to you

My wizard self-buffs to 517 HP and still wears heavy fort. Hit points are irrelevant. Heavy fort is an essential gear slot for every class. You can't just say "oh, since I don't have aggro and I'm not in melee range, I don't need HP or fort." Because when Murphy's Law happens to your party, things like that will determine whether you become a soul stone like everyone else, or whether you're able to save the quest.

Reminds me of a cleric in an Epic VoN6 who didn't have fort (or Quicken)...you know how useful he was to the party?

[sirgog]

Heavy Fort is a Must For Everyone--barring WF who get Heavy Fort with a Mod Fort item.

My caster, always tried to BE the aggro magnet, and it made it much easier to run quests without a Healer. Im a WF tho, so could throw a firewall, stand in it, block and heal myself.

I can't imagine soloing without HF. And these people are bring nice saying it will take 2 shots to kill you without HF--As a Healer I can tell you that as a caster without HF you will get 1 shotted quite a bit and Ill never be able to do anything to try to save you, it is instant.

Except for Dueragar in elite Relic of a Sovereign Past, I can't think of many things that will one-shot you with a crit. Arraetrikos in Shroud Elite can't even do 200 damage with a melee crit, neither can elite Suulomades or Epic Lailat, and Horoth can only just do it on Normal (that's an extra high damage crit). Epic Velah and Elite Horoth are the only raid bosses that can crit for 250.

It's more that you die to quick unexpected bursts of damage without fortification.

If you take five hits from Mummies in Epic Wiz-King in rapid succession, that's about 300-350 damage with heavy fort. Survivable every single time on a typical Wiz20.

If you don't have heavy fort, sometimes none will crit and you'll take 300-350 damage and live. Sometimes one will crit and you'll take about 400 damage, and it will be dicey. Seldom three will crit, and you'll be a bloodstain on the floor. Three crits only seldom happens, but it DOES HAPPEN. Just like Vorpals proccing - it seldom happens on a given roll, but over a quest, it happens a lot.

[k0ukla]

Heavy fort is a must, and if you get to high end content and ppl hear that God awful sound of you getting hit without having it on (yes, ppl will know we can hear it), expect some comments and perhaps expect no heals....

[Sirea]

Except for Dueragar in elite Relic of a Sovereign Past, I can't think of many things that will one-shot you with a crit. Arraetrikos in Shroud Elite can't even do 200 damage with a melee crit, neither can elite Suulomades or Epic Lailat, and Horoth can only just do it on Normal (that's an extra high damage crit). Epic Velah and Elite Horoth are the only raid bosses that can crit for 250.

It's more that you die to quick unexpected bursts of damage without fortification.

If you take five hits from Mummies in Epic Wiz-King in rapid succession, that's about 300-350 damage with heavy fort. Survivable every single time on a typical Wiz20.

If you don't have heavy fort, sometimes none will crit and you'll take 300-350 damage and live. Sometimes one will crit and you'll take about 400 damage, and it will be dicey. Seldom three will crit, and you'll be a bloodstain on the floor. Three crits only seldom happens, but it DOES HAPPEN. Just like Vorpals proccing - it seldom happens on a given roll, but over a quest, it happens a lot.

You're also assuming most characters these days have enough hit points to survive 200-350 points of damage at a time. It's really not uncommon to see caster, clerics, even some melee classes like monks, rogues and rangers with under 300 HP. Unfortunately newer players are learning not to dump CON and to invest in CON and GFL items the hard way.

[Waukeen]

Hvy Fort at 11 is a must.

Med fort at 7 should be a must.

It is by far the most reliable, easy to obtain damage mitigation in the game.

Why wouldn't you need heavy fort, especially at endgame? Really.

[TheDearLeader]

I must guffaw at some of the things I see in this thread. Yes, guffaw. If I've hurt your brain, www.m-w.com may be able to help you out.

First, the majority of traps in game, even if they are blade/spike traps, cannot "crit". This implies that they have to make an attack roll to hit you; they do not, and therefore have no miss chance. If you are standing in them while they are in their "active" phase (100% of the time for some, less % of the time for others), you must make a Reflex save for half damage. So, taking Evasion and Improved Evasion out of the equation for the moment, Traps deal (Saved) Damage or (Not Saved) Damage. Traps do not crit. There are a few arrow traps out there that use an attack roll to determine whether or not you take damage, but they're of little concern. So... Heavy Fort does not apply here.

However, it does apply to various other attacks, such as natural, melee, and ranged weapon attacks. Try running to Offering of Blood in Menechtarun without Heavy Fort. The archers in Vulkoor's Spiral alone will lul at your foolishness.

Every toon, regardless of class, build, etc., will take damage from a weapon attack at some point. If you're crit, thats 2, 3, or maybe 4 times as many points of damage you're taking, and asking your healer to fix for you.

VON6 is a good example of unavoidable damage - Velah's wing buffets are considered a type of weapon attack. They hurt. They'd hurt even more if she crits on one. Also, her bite/claw attacks have a huge range to them - to get close enough to cast most spells on her w/o using Enlarge Spell, you'll take damage.

Bottom line : Get it on some piece of gear. Even one point of extra damage that can be avoided should, because that may be the difference between -9 and -10.

If that's not enough of an inclination for you to do it - know that jerks like me watch, and listen. A critical hit on a Player Character makes a distinct sound. I will find out who it is, and appropriate measures will be taken.

[sirgog]

You're also assuming most characters these days have enough hit points to survive 200-350 points of damage at a time. It's really not uncommon to see caster, clerics, even some melee classes like monks, rogues and rangers with under 300 HP. Unfortunately newer players are learning not to dump CON and to invest in CON and GFL items the hard way.

That's true, I assume an arcane in an epic Desert quest would have 370+ hp.

I ran a little while back with a cleric that had 200hp at level 20

[TheDearLeader]

That's true, I assume an arcane in an epic Desert quest would have 370+ hp.

I ran a little while back with a cleric that had 200hp at level 20

My peeps are currently working on a build that would have the lowest HP possible. We'll try and get back to you on the massive amount of fail possible. 200 HP is in no way the "floor" XD

[Trillea]

My peeps are currently working on a build that would have the lowest HP possible. We'll try and get back to you on the massive amount of fail possible. 200 HP is in no way the "floor" XD

lv 19/1 drow wiz/monk, 6 base CON, wearing the bloodrage symbiote, while in wind stance - you know, for that extra DPS.. LOL

This would give a CON of 2 (-4 modifier):

20 hp-heroic durability
19 hp from wiz levels (4 hp with -4 modifier, min 1 hp per level)
4 hp from the 1 monk level (8 hp base with -4 modifier)

43 hp at level 20.

[incineration]

lv 19/1 drow wiz/monk, 6 base CON, wearing the bloodrage symbiote, while in wind stance - you know, for that extra DPS.. LOL

dont forget that mask from i think its Co6 that lowers ya CON by 1...

so, how low can ya go??????

[Arlith]

You're wrong here, you SHOULD frequently have mob agro. Heck some sorcs & wizards take intim. You want them to stay in your big hot firewall so you want them ****ed at you, and if your WF is working, it should keep them ****ed at you.

Learn to shield block or play jumping frog, put on heavy fort, and displace yourself, con is NOT a dumpstat and you should have +con +false life items on your and have taken toughness.

There, now you are a caster.

^^^^
This, this, this, this, this.

[TheDearLeader]

lv 19/1 drow wiz/monk, 6 base CON, wearing the bloodrage symbiote, while in wind stance - you know, for that extra DPS.. LOL

This would give a CON of 2 (-4 modifier):

20 hp-heroic durability
19 hp from wiz levels (4 hp with -4 modifier, min 1 hp per level)
4 hp from the 1 monk level (8 hp base with -4 modifier)

43 hp at level 20.

The force is strong with you. Not to say we haven't already thought of these things, but good on you for popping them up so quickly.

Still, ways of lowering it are in consideration. We're looking for a build that can get one-shotted by equipping two uncleansed GS accessories.

Hint : Lawful Good Alignment with Anarchic Handwraps is another -5 HP ^.^

[PNellesen]

However, it does apply to various other attacks, such as natural, melee, and ranged weapon attacks. Try running to Offering of Blood in Menechtarun without Heavy Fort. The archers in Vulkoor's Spiral alone will lul at your foolishness.

QFT. This was the exact quest I really learned the value of heavy fort. I had been using a mod fort item up till then, but when I did get hit for a crit, they hit HARD. fortunately my teammates knew I was a new player and "gently" suggested that I might want to consider upgrading at my earliest opportunity.

[Ebonta]

It's necessary because my capped healer will pop you in his bag if you don't have it ^^.

[khaldan]

The force is strong with you. Not to say we haven't already thought of these things, but good on you for popping them up so quickly.

Still, ways of lowering it are in consideration. We're looking for a build that can get one-shotted by equipping two uncleansed GS accessories.

Hint : Lawful Good Alignment with Anarchic Handwraps is another -5 HP ^.^

19/1 drow wiz/monk
76 wizard
8 monk
-100 con(6-2 bloodrage-2 wind stance-1 Co6 Hat)
20 heroic dura
___
4 HP

1 shot by a critting kobold.

[Trillea]

19/1 drow wiz/monk
76 wizard
8 monk
-100 con(6-2 bloodrage-2 wind stance-1 Co6 Hat)
20 heroic dura
___
4 HP

1 shot by a critting kobold.

This is incorrect calculations, because a 1 CON will still give 1 hp per level minimum. So the bare minimum if you could get 1 CON on a 20 wiz would be:

20 heroic durability
20 wizard levels

40 hp.

[Dandonk]

This is incorrect calculations, because a 1 CON will still give 1 hp per level minimum. So the bare minimum if you could get 1 CON on a 20 wiz would be:

20 heroic durability
20 wizard levels

40 hp.

Hey, I've grouped with that guy.

[Jiipster]

This is incorrect calculations, because a 1 CON will still give 1 hp per level minimum. So the bare minimum if you could get 1 CON on a 20 wiz would be:

20 heroic durability
20 wizard levels

40 hp.

Be Lawful Good, wear Litany and an Anarchic weapon, 30 HP.

[Trillea]

Be Lawful Good, wear Litany and an Anarchic weapon, 30 HP.

True, but Litany would raise CON back up, and you wouldn't be able to use the Symbiont at the same time. The anarchic weapon would work though. 35 hp.

[TheDearLeader]

True, but Litany would raise CON back up, and you wouldn't be able to use the Symbiont at the same time. The anarchic weapon would work though. 35 hp.

Close but not quite. He decided to do 20 Wizzie, instead of 19Wiz/1Monk. Means no wind stance, no extra penalty to Con. Would be 4 Con instead of 2