Prediction: next week we learn astral diamonds are DDOStore only

[Fomori]

You are wrong.

As currently on Lama the guild perks are actually mostly gameplay enhancements.

+2 to stats (stacks with everything else)
+2 to damage ('')
+30 elemental resists (again stacks)
+? skills (stacks yet again)
+10% healing (stacks...)

Unless your argument is that a full set of +6 tomes compared to +4 tomes does not provide an advantage in quest? How about the benefits of 4 past life feats (10% healing amp, +2 damage per hit)? Lol, or how about 30 more fire resistance in certain quests?

At first I was annoyed by this, that being in a larger guild actually gives you in game perks, but then I realized... its a PvE game and who cares if someone else gets a bonus. As long as content does not assume you are using every single perk in existence (which is a possibility unfortunately).

The biggest consequence of this decision is that guilds may become even more internal focusing than they are now when it comes to groups. Having perks tends to get people used to others having them as well. Just one more reason to deny grouping with someone because their guild doesnt have <insert perk here>. Sorry, your dps is ~3% inferior due to not having the +2 damage so you would slow down our quest by <1 min... unacceptable!

[Drakos]

Just to be clear with my opinion, and this is not intended as a whine or rant*, but 100% means 100%. Everything. Optional, required, everything. The whole enchilada.

* hmmm usually when I type this it means it really is a whine or rant and I just don't know it yet. Hopefully not this time

Ok, but unless these Diamonds are not avaliable in game without the store, then they have access to it. !00% doesn't mean easily obtained. Even if they are only store, you get free TP while playing, therefore you could use it for these items. My point is that it will be avaliabel to F2P players, just not as easily as those willing to spend a few $$$. Whish is working as Intended AFAIK.

[Cyr]

I had not seen that those things stacked. IF that is the case I stand corrected. Do the stat perks stack with the Yugo pots? When I first read them, it appeared to be substitutes, not additional bonuses. If that is the case then the system is fraught with peril. Especially if the upper levels of the guild perks are very hard to achieve in game and more readily just bought.

Someone running around with 60 pt resists and as you point out +6 tome equivalents will take a lot more to be challenged than without. So if quests are scaled to be a challenge for those, they will be horribly hard for those without, more or less forcing people to either join a guild or pony up serious bucks to achieve even remote parity.

They are 'guild' bonus type for the most part. That means they stack with anything else not of guild bonus type...which is everythine prior to update 5. There are a few profane ones in the list also. Don't think those are any of the ones I listed though.

[Drakos]

1. ONLY available to buy instore = not F2P
2. Massive grind to get them in game or purchase in store to get them quick = F2P

You should go option 2.

But 1 and 2 are the same. Since all store purchases are done via TP's you can massively grind to get the TP to then buy in the store. The quick part is subjectivly, and not in Turbin's best interest. You realize they want you to buy TP's, but you can still get this without spending a dime, therefore it is free. The difference is getting instant gretification, or putting in the time. If they made it too easy to grind and get everything, then they would quickly go out of business.

Above all - give a way to get the things in game. I don't care if their random drops. I don't care if they're quest rewards, or collectible hand in rewards. I don't care if you use a base time calculation based on 1 year of dedicated grinding by the whole guild But make them in game accessible. Its the principle of the thing. That still matters to some people.

The store is "in game". The items you purchase are only usable in-game and you can only access it from in-game. The currency used in the Store is accessable in-game for free. So, in this your desire has been granted.

[kinar]

Just to be clear with my opinion, and this is not intended as a whine or rant*, but 100% means 100%. Everything. Optional, required, everything. The whole enchilada.

* hmmm usually when I type this it means it really is a whine or rant and I just don't know it yet. Hopefully not this time

I'm not sure that Turbine has ever claimed 100%...and by your definition, they already are not 100% (WF & Monk)unless you count the fact that you can grind out TP via favor rewards...

[Hendrik]

Its not the grinding for renown I have the problem with. Its the 'prestige items only available for real cash' I object to. Either the game is F2P or it isn't - I don't care how much they stretch the F2P aspect for true adventure content (grinding favour for TPs), but for items, prestige or otherwise, there should be a way to get them directly in game (favour, renown, gold, whatever) in addition to TPs. The indirect favour>TP system is not good enough for something like this by a long shot because of what I expect to be the massive cost of the ships in TPs. I objected to the +20 personal bank slot for the same reason - that should have been a favour unlockable as well as a TP purchase. Again, don't care if the ships themselves can be unlocked in game except with renown - yes you should still have to grind renown. But the Astral Diamonds are an ingame item, (since they can used to 'group' purchase something in game) and therefore should be obtainable without spending out of game currency. Ditto the various TR items.

Anyway. I will wait and see. I'll just be very disappointed if they go down that route. My small guild will never get enough renown for one of the AD-required ships, so regardless of where the ADs come from its a moot point for me. Its the principle.

Appreciate the reply sir.

Grinding for renown? Hells, I'll just play the game as I always have and pick up renown as I go along. This is what the Guild I belong is looking forward to - playing as a unit with a special goal and foster support for the Guild and it's members.

With our new business model it makes total sense to have items available in store for your ship - it up to the individual to decide if going that route is worth it. Me? I'll take the 'long' way and play the game and skip the store as I pretty much always have.

If you do not like the TP cost of a ship, then don't use the store to buy one. Play the game. There is no special prize for being the first to spend real cash for a ship - just like no prize by playing the game and 'earning' one with your Guildmates.

Whats the cost for the largest via in-game? 1.8mpp. For a guild that has met the requirements to own that ship, via the store or in-game, they should have no issue affording a ship of that cost.

If you do not want to buy your ship via the store, don't. IMO, it is a waste of time, effort, and cash.

[Turial]

.... (oh no, more shards! collection 10million astral shards and crunch 10 at a time to make a diamond ).

....

This is a diamond we are talking about. You will likely only be able to crunch 2 at a time. It takes a lot of pressure and time to make a diamond afterall.

[Neko-kun]

*snip* Ai yi yi. *snip*

[geoffhanna]

Geo... what in the guild ships is going to make it *required* that all players have access to guild ships?

I have found nothing. Certainly some niceties, but nothing required. F2P has always been a statement about paying for server access, never about content access.

Disagree. The game is positioned as "100% free to play". Not, "100% free to have server access".

The arguments that "a ship can be earned through grind" are valid, if not overly heartening. The arguments that "airships don't count in the 100%" are not valid.

I'm not sure that Turbine has ever claimed 100%...and by your definition, they already are not 100% (WF & Monk)unless you count the fact that you can grind out TP via favor rewards...

They do make that claim. And they do count.
_______________________

I remain convinced that my prediction will come true. I don't know how bad that is, even should it happen. Maybe not bad at all. It could be a slippery slope that goes somewhere doooooommmmm-y. Or not, I really don't know.

However, I am certain that I won't ask anyone in my guild to contribute Astral Diamonds towards a ship. I would hate it if anyone felt pressured to contribute real money to the guild, and some might no matter how carefully I phrased the request.

[incontinetia]

Well if they fall on the ground we are closer to them at least.

[Quanefel]

5 sponges + level 20 sorc. Run 100favor quests, repeat.

2 boxing also works to make it fast and easy.

[geoffhanna]

LOL didn't need till next week, just needed a few hours for someone to look in the right place on Lamannia:

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...16&postcount=3

[Dendrix]

Wouldn't that stretch the "100% F2P" too far to remain credible? 99.999% F2P is still pretty good, even if not as catchy a slogan, and if my speculations pan out it is also way more honest.

every 100 favour = 25 Turbine points.
Everything availabel in the store can be bought with turbine points.
you don't have to pay a single cent.

That's 100% Free.

[Melyc'inya]

every 100 favour = 25 Turbine points.
Everything availabel in the store can be bought with turbine points.
you don't have to pay a single cent.

That's 100% Free.

Exactly. I've been tryin' ta say that in the other thread. You said it much clearer than I, good sir.

[Deaeth]

Exactly. I've been tryin' ta say that in the other thread. You said it much clearer than I, good sir.

You are right, in the other thread we were trying to get a select few to understand what free meant to Turbine. Apparently we needed to break it down short and simple (Barney Style) like above poster did. /sigh I'll just stop tryin to help others who don't want it and let them complain about things they obviously have no clue about!

+1 BTW

[dunklezhan]

every 100 favour = 25 Turbine points.
Everything available in the store can be bought with turbine points.
you don't have to pay a single cent.

That's 100% Free.

That is true - I would not argue with this.

My point is only that I believe it would be more reasonable to allow a more direct way to purchase the ships without having to visit the store at all - it should be a massive, massive, unbelievably inconvenient method, but it should exist.

I believe that if you make things attractive enough price wise as well as 'desirability', people will buy the product, and what's more they'll buy it in larger numbers than if you have desirability and an unattractive price point. I don't believe that just because the product is brilliant you should overcharge.

Hence, for example, I own no Apple products at all. They're brilliant, but they're overpriced and tie you in to too much stuff. Its not that I don't have the money especially - I just won't give it to Apple on the basis of how much they charge compared to their competitors who's product is only marginally worse, if its worse at all. Large numbers of people have bought the products but I don't believe that justifies the price, I think that just shows that people don't question things nearly enough before they part with their cash.

I personally am more likely to actually spend real money if I perceive it to be a genuine choice - which is why I've spent so much money on some of the things I have in the DDO store, and not at all on others (personal bank slot expansion being my favorite bug bear).

But I reiterate - this is my opinion. This is how I feel about it. Its rational from my perspective, if from no-one else's! I dont' like it, I won't spend my money, and I'll try to convince other people not to spend theirs if I genuinely feel that things are unfair - but I'm not going to push it all over the forums, start new threads, send angry emails or start a facebook/blogging campaign. Will I express my opinion if I see other people discussing it though? You betcha. But I'm not about to get all upset about it in Turbine's case because I do not dispute the fact that you CAN get the stuff free if you grind the favour for TPs. Turbine are not lying about being F2P. I just don't think they acting fairly with some of the price points.

Just going to say it again so my position is clear:

It is true that you can grind for EVERYthing in the DDO store via the favour mechanism. ITS TRUE.

There! Can't agree more clearly than that .



TL;DR version: For me, its a question of following the spirit of the 'F2P' tag, rather than the letter.

Bowing out now. Apolgies for yet another Wall of Text (tm)

[kinar]

Disagree. The game is positioned as "100% free to play". Not, "100% free to have server access".

The arguments that "a ship can be earned through grind" are valid, if not overly heartening. The arguments that "airships don't count in the 100%" are not valid.



They do make that claim. And they do count.

can you point me to where it says 100% free? I've been searching and still can't find it

[Josh]

certainly hope not. The rumour/message coming out of Turbine central is that ALL aspects of guild airships will be acheivable via in game means. I did not take that to mean 'log into the game and press Ctrl+s'

Just like how they said that you could earn in game everything available in the DDO store?

Not buying it.

[Josh]

It is true that you can grind for EVERYthing in the DDO store via the favour mechanism. ITS TRUE.

No, you can't.

[Drakos]

No, you can't.

Please enliten us to what in the DDO Store cannot be bought through grinding TP's in the favor system.

The only Item I can think of is the TP bundles.