Weekly Dev Activities 04/14/08

[llevenbaxx]

why are you moving slower when you can walk right up to your target and THEN stealth?

Kind of a dumb implimentation at this point though, why bother?

Run up...sneak mode(even though he already heard you clopping up behind him?)... death attack. Whats the point? This is prolly exactly how its going to go down too. Its a technicality in the chain of events, nothing more. Jus makes it less fun to use.


This needs to be reconsidered...

[dragnmoon]

What is next? An enhancement that lets rogues crit undead?

Yup

[Laith]

Kind of a dumb implimentation at this point though, why bother?

Run up...sneak mode(even though he already heard you clopping up behind him?)... death attack. Whats the point? This is prolly exactly how its going to go down too.

This needs to be reconsidered...

going into sneak might be considered an implementation of "studying your target" (the requirement from pnp)

might be a bit silly though, and swinging from stealth does need to be fixed (highest bab, and TWF if applies). at the very least, death attack should be considered in the "special swings use highest attack bonus" change.

[llevenbaxx]

going into sneak might be considered an implementation of "studying your target" (the requirement from pnp)

might be a bit silly though, and swinging from stealth does need to be fixed (highest bab, and TWF if applies). at the very least, death attack should be considered in the "special swings use highest attack bonus" change.

Yeah I hear yah, will jus be a technicality in the chain of events that will only make it less fun(less cool) to use in game though.

[bobbryan2]

*shrug* i guess tanks that actually take aggro are a rarer thing than i thoguh, and anticipating the mobs jumps (which isn't that hard when you pay attention) is a lost art.

yep... mobs "bunny hop" alot. they almost always do it the same way though.

oh well, i guess we'll see how it works on risia.

You obviously haven't tried to hit moving targets while in sneak mode for a while. New mob AIs + archaic sneak mode mechanics make this very difficult.

Remember how hard it is to chase moving targets and hit them from behind? Now do it at your lowest iterative attack bonus (-10 to hit), while moving (-4 to hit), with only one weapon (despite having 2 in your hands), and sometimes being taken out of sneak mode even though you didn't get a roll to hit.

Oh... and you're doing so at half speed so the mobs are even faster than you making the bug where you're unable to chase things down even more evident.

Again... you can claim the air of superiority, but you seem like you haven't played with the actual mechanics in a while.

[dragnmoon]

You dont have to sneak up there just have to do a three key attack, diplo, sneak, death attack all three are instant so its not like a mob is gonna get away before you get this off

We don't know that for sure yet...it really does not say either way well in description...

[ArkoHighStar]

*shrug* i guess tanks that actually take aggro are a rarer thing than i thoguh, and anticipating the mobs jumps (which isn't that hard when you pay attention) is a lost art.

yep... mobs "bunny hop" alot. they almost always do it the same way though.

oh well, i guess we'll see how it works on risia.

most mobs that are standing around die rather quickly, the only ones that tend to live a little longer are ones you have to chase, so while yes you can attack an already aggroed mob and get the death attack, it has a limited benefit as you have to wait for the cooldown, I could see it being of use for high hp mobs like orthons and bearded devils(if they can stay still long enough without teleporting) and you can beat the melee before he either gets a 20 on his vorpal or crits with a banisher.

[Bronko]

Thanks Q.

I'm getting excited. We're still not where most paladins would agree we should be with Smite Evil, but the regen effect of it's uses is a pleasantly unexpected change.

Everything is looking up and I'm anxious to see the new release.

[LeLoric]

We don't know that for sure yet...it really does not say either way well in description...

hmmm thought it says it pretty well must be a sneak attack covered by diplo, must be stealthed thats your 2nd key, the attack itself is your third key.

granted i havent used nor have any of us but according to the wording thats all thats required

[RavenStormclaw]

WotA II = build a halfling assassin. With the top tier halfling enhancements it will hardly miss. Otherwise forget about it. Not to mention I think everyone is making one bad assumption. You assasinate something that doesn't know its coming. I don't think this enhancment line was meant to be used in open combat. It just doesn't make any sense. If used properly thought it can be quite usefull. It just requires a little party patience and teamwork. Its great for letting the rogue sneak in and kill the pesky caster and then let the rest of the party clean up the rest of the mess. Of course this assumes one thing: PEOPLE LEARN TO WORK TOGETHER AND LET EACH PARTY MEMBER DO THEIR JOB INSTEAD OF ZERGING THROUGH EVERYTHING! Otherwise why bother?

[Laith]

you can claim the air of superiority, but you seem like you haven't played with the actual mechanics in a while.

heh.... glad someone could put me in my place.

personally, i'm happy to refrain from complete dismissal of the ability until we at least see it on risia.

stealth has issues, with that i agree. anytime someone pulls out a vorpal and begs for a 5% chance though, i can't help but see that this is obviously the better alternative. Those are the type of guys that you actually NEED help killing, and should focus on.

unfortunately, fairly often these guys are devils and use cleave to break your stealth. use of this attack only when flanking would be nice... the problem is how the game defines flanking, and how often the attack would be wasted because you were a few degrees off.

[dragnmoon]

hmmm thought it says it pretty well must be a sneak attack covered by diplo, must be stealthed thats your 2nd key, the attack itself is your third key.

granted i havent used nor have any of us but according to the wording thats all thats required

it says this..

Also grants the ability to make devastating melee attacks that can kill a living target instantly on a successful sneak attack made from stealth if the target fails a Fortitude save, DC 10 + Rogue Level + Int Modifier.


No where does it say Stealth Mode...it says stealth... which can me 1 of 2 things..

1. Just be in stealth mode and not worry about being seen. *Which I hope it means*
or
2. Means you have to stealth up to the monster without being seen and then then get your attack off..


That is 2 different things.. one you can do in the middle of combat... one you can't.

[RavenStormclaw]

most mobs that are standing around die rather quickly, the only ones that tend to live a little longer are ones you have to chase, so while yes you can attack an already aggroed mob and get the death attack, it has a limited benefit as you have to wait for the cooldown, I could see it being of use for high hp mobs like orthons and bearded devils(if they can stay still long enough without teleporting) and you can beat the melee before he either gets a 20 on his vorpal or crits with a banisher.

Don't forget about web. You can web the bearded devils fairly well with heightened on. Again it comes back to party tatics. If everyone just fends for themselves and screams for the cleric to heal them....then again why bother. Everyone should make either a raging barbarian or a wf sorcerer and we can just zerg through everything. Otherwise stop and use some blasted tatics. Web the devils. Have rogue sneak up and kill them. Done. But that would mean the arcanse has to cast web instead of FoD and the melee would have to not charge in and take 200 hp of damagee before finally getting that crit.

Tatics man its all about the Tatics!

[Laith]

Don't forget about web.

CC died ages ago.
Since it isn't used, abilities like WotA II cannot benefit from it.


...newb

[Thraxes]

well to bad a rogue has no place in a high lvl group! this could of gave the rogue a place to fit in. well it looks like my favorite toon stays on the shelf as a mule and i look for another game.

[RavenStormclaw]

CC died ages ago.
Since it isn't used, abilities like WotA II cannot benefit from it.


...newb

LOL... well that it isn't used and that it can't be used are two different things


One is silly the other is a nerf!

CC for the win.

Give me a halfing assassin and a WF sorcerer with heightened web and and omg glitterdust cause being blind gives you auto sneak attack...heck stealht mode be damned....and I will show you how to duo any quest in the game save those that absolutely require more then 2 people for lever acitvation

[RavenStormclaw]

well to bad a rogue has no place in a high lvl group! this could of gave the rogue a place to fit in. well it looks like my favorite toon stays on the shelf as a mule and i look for another game.

Nah....just find yourself a good arcanse who can cast glitterdust, hypno, web, otto's etc, and then you can leisurely kill everything. I'm telling you all now..... a cc control sorcerer with a halfling assassin is gonna be a deadly combo....just gotta look beyond the box.

[ahpook]

am i the only one to see the irony?

no

personally, i'm happy to refrain from complete dismissal of the ability until we at least see it on risia.

stealth has issues, with that i agree. anytime someone pulls out a vorpal and begs for a 5% chance though, i can't help but see that this is obviously the better alternative. Those are the type of guys that you actually NEED help killing, and should focus on.

I hear ya.

Stealth works fine when you use it appropriately. My rogue CAN go in and get first shot with sneak attack bonus and crippling strike. He cannot do it when running with a zerging pug. That is not game problem but a style of play problem. Turbine should not create everything to fit into that one game style.

This adds playstyle options. If you don't want to play an assassin style don't take this enhancement. If you are looking for zerg support, put your APs into subtle back-stabbing and sneak accuracy and damage. It should allow you to do max damage in a zerg party. This should not be another zerg combat clicky.

[jkm]

when i think of this attack, this is what i think of...

http://www.ddo1liners.co.uk/archives/111.htm

to augment it and make it just as good as the others it would be nice to have the extra 2 damage changed to be a +2 seeker bonus (same effect except it helps to confirm the critical as well).

[Laith]

well to bad a rogue has no place in a high lvl group! this could of gave the rogue a place to fit in. well it looks like my favorite toon stays on the shelf as a mule and i look for another game.

actually Wrack Construct might make a rogue as standard in the Shroud as a bard. by the time mod7 comes out, everyone will be completely annoyed with part1, and rogues'll make it go quicker.