Weekly Dev Activities 04/14/08

[Dungnmaster001]

Ok Paladin's can boost their next attack...But where's the caster's "True Strike" spell???

you're assuming it boosts their next attack and not a clickie attack like trip or smite (yes it sounds like that due to the way it's written, but I can see it going either way really...On first glance I assumed it was a clickie.)

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Does this mean that charmed mobs are going to draw the same Insta Hate that cloudkill does?

I hope not, it wouldn't make sense... but I suspect they mean that it won't get confused about who to fight if your pet dies, and thats a good thing.

[The_Phenx]

# UPDATED Rogue Way of the Assassin II:

* Cost: 2 Action Points
* Prereqs: Rogue Level 12, Rogue Way of the Assassin I, Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III, Rogue Sneak Attack Training III, 42 Action Points Spent
* Benefit: Grants an additional +2 bonus to damage on critical hits (before multipliers), +2 bonus to Bluff, Hide, and Move Silently skills and a +1 bonus to Fortitude saves against poison. Also grants the ability to make devastating melee attacks that can kill a living target instantly on a successful sneak attack made from stealth if the target fails a Fortitude save, DC 10 + Rogue Level + Int Modifier. (15 second cool-down, can only be performed while stealth and when sneak attacking.)


Will this work with throwing weapons? if so I will finally be building my thrower.

Still wish you would make power attack work with throwing weapons tho.

[moorewr]

If I had enough resists I would


I guess I would just like to see some middle ground. A lot of people seem to be calling for mobs to run away the instant they touch the fire, which seems to be the opposite extreme, and really no more intelligent than what they are currently doing. Though I guess it would really just make Firewalls act more like blade barriers with casters kiting them through the walls repeatedly. Unless of course they made the enemies' pathing smarter so they'd run around the wall or avoid it completely, which could make for an interesting situation of using it to block a door.

My idea is this: Can I (the monster) path to the caster OR hit someone blocking my path?
Yes: Stay put and murder somebody! Don't care who!
No: Stop taking damage to no good effect

So, we have our Wall of Fire and shield wall in a doorway. Monsters charge up and start sizzling. The monsters who can reach the shield start wailing on it, and those who are blocked retreat out of the fire.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Thanks DEV's for totaly nerfing this! i thought you were going to show some rogue love, i thought wrong! how am i going to tell the sorc hay i know you can just finger or PK them but if you give me 5min i can sneak up there NOT!!! or tell all the fighters to hold on i will sneak up there! NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!! so i ask what do you plan to do for rogues to put them on par with sorc's, barbs extra crit and vorpal welding fighters?

my thoughts exactly...

Get rid of the stealth requirement, its enough that the guy isn't looking at my (ie no agro) to let me stick the shiv in him...

[Laith]

Will this work with throwing weapons? if so I will finally be building my thrower.

it says "melee attacks"

[LeLoric]

UPDATED Rogue Way of the Assassin II:
Cost: 2 Action Points
Prereqs: Rogue Level 12, Rogue Way of the Assassin I, Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III, Rogue Sneak Attack Training III, 42 Action Points Spent
Benefit: Grants an additional +2 bonus to damage on critical hits (before multipliers), +2 bonus to Bluff, Hide, and Move Silently skills and a +1 bonus to Fortitude saves against poison. Also grants the ability to make devastating melee attacks that can kill a living target instantly on a successful sneak attack made from stealth if the target fails a Fortitude save, DC 10 + Rogue Level + Int Modifier. (15 second cool-down, can only be performed while stealth and when sneak attacking.)


Thanks DEV's for totaly nerfing this! i thought you were going to show some rogue love, i thought wrong! how am i going to tell the sorc hay i know you can just finger or PK them but if you give me 5min i can sneak up there NOT!!! or tell all the fighters to hold on i will sneak up there! NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!! so i ask what do you plan to do for rogues to put them on par with sorc's, barbs extra crit and vorpal welding fighters?

You dont have to sneak up there just have to do a three key attack, diplo, sneak, death attack all three are instant so its not like a mob is gonna get away before you get this off

[The_Phenx]

it says "melee attacks"

Aye but why, rouges are supposed to be deadly from hiding with a throwing weapon...

Perhaps its worded wrong, should be any attack that qualifies as a sneak attack.. so within 30 feet... I hope.

Whats the good word Quarion... Throwing weapons or not>?

[Shyver]

You dont have to sneak up there just have to do a three key attack, diplo, sneak, death attack all three are instant so its not like a mob is gonna get away before you get this off

1 key. Keyboard Macro's for the win.

But really, I still don't care for the "sneak" addition on top of the 15 second cool down and reduction in damage bonus for as many AP as it costs. At this point, for my character at least, the AP are better spent on Dwarven Tactics 3 for 1 more DC on the stunning blow. I was hoping for something really cool with this enhancement when they first announced it. I'd even be good with a longer cooldown (20 seconds) and ditch the sneak aspect of it. Really that would put it on par with manyshot without the safety of being ranged. And I know that manyshot doesn't mean instant kill, but really at lvl 11 or higher in the hands of even a decent "ranged" character it is a "killshot".

Edit: By "putting it on par with manyshot" I meant that it would give the rogue 1 shot every 20 seconds to instakill a mob, or 7 in the time of a manyshot and it's cooldwon. The mob gets a chance for us to miss, a saving throw if we hit, and the chance we lag and use the charge but not get a "swing" (hello Paladins ) With manyshots, granted it's only 20 seconds with a 2 min cooldown, but with imp. precise shot and a fair bit of skill a "ranged" character will kill a comparible number from the safety of distance. True it does cost 4? feats to get imp. precise shot and manyshot (free at ranger lvl 11) but WotA 2 eats up a lot of Ap on a rogue that could be spent elsewhere.

[Rindalathar]

I always thought that the way the enhancement worked was it took whatever % you have off of your total damage in regards to aggro on the mob. So if you were doing 100 damage then at subtle backstabber 4 the Mob would think you were only doing 60 in regards to aggro. Since it was my understanding that aggro was generated by damage taken by the mob.

I don't think there is any subtle backstabber check, it just reduces the damage the mob "thinks" your doing. But even with that once you surpass the damage done by others, the mob turns aggro to you.

Always thought it was a pretty lousy enhancement line. Then again I play a dwarven strength rogue that uses stunning blow.

Subtle Backstabber = Seriously increased survivability. While I've never played with Stunning Blow, I feel Subtle Backstabber is by far the best enhancement line offered rogues.

[EinarMal]

I'd even be good with a longer cooldown (20 seconds) and ditch the sneak aspect of it.

I agree mess with the cooldown, but do not require the stealth mechanic. With lag/latency and the stealth movement slow down, and mob AI running them all over the place it will be too hard to ever use.

Having it only work if you can sneak up to mobs before the fighting starts makes it not worth the AP (at least to me).

[llevenbaxx]

my thoughts exactly...

Get rid of the stealth requirement, its enough that the guy isn't looking at my (ie no agro) to let me stick the shiv in him...

Yeah, I though my one rogues Imp Feint was actually going to start being somewhat useful... nae. Finally going to get around to respec it out.

This previously seemed a great way to get ImpFeint a use, its the gimpest of the combat abilities currently. Allowing the death attack off of IF would have given rogues a little of the one on one threat its supposed to.



Am hoping Divine Sac lasts until you attack allowing it to be used with smite. It might be something them. Time will tell.

[Laith]

Having it only work if you can sneak up to mobs before the fighting starts makes it not worth the AP (at least to me).

why are there so many people still making this assumption?

the WDA says NOTHING about about "the mob must never see you". it says 2 things:
1) you must sneak attack them (sneak is granted in many different situations)
2) you must use death attack from stealth mode

from the wording we're given, you can saunter right up to a fight behind your resident tank, pick a target (that's automatically aggroed on the guy it saw first), go into stealth, and swing away.

[EinarMal]

why are there so many people still making this assumption?

the WDA says NOTHING about about "the mob must never see you". it says 2 things:
1) you must sneak attack them
2) you must use death attack from stealth mode

from the wording we're given, you can saunter right up to a fight behind your resident tank, pick a target (that's automatically aggroed on the guy it saw first), go into stealth, and swing away.

Or while wasting all that time moving slower, going into stealth, etc...I could have just killed a mob by hitting it with pointy sticks repeatedly If you can't kill faster with it then what really is it good for?

You also get 1 swing from stealth regardless of TWF feats, and you make it at your lowest attack.

[Laith]

Or while wasting all that time moving slower, going into stealth, etc...I could have just killed a mob by hitting it with pointy sticks repeatedly If you can't kill faster with it then what really is it good for?

why are you moving slower when you can walk right up to your target and THEN stealth?

there's at most a 1sec universal cooldown for stealthing... by then you should be spamming the death attack button. at that point, you'd be on what, your 3rd normal swing?

[Turial]

That is pretty much how it works. I was playing around with it when I was with a friend. We had things pretty well set up so that we were dealing roughly the same amount of damage and with subtle backstabbing on the mob stayed on my friend and I was able to keep sneak attacks the whole time.

I always thought that the way the enhancement worked was it took whatever % you have off of your total damage in regards to aggro on the mob. So if you were doing 100 damage then at subtle backstabber 4 the Mob would think you were only doing 60 in regards to aggro. Since it was my understanding that aggro was generated by damage taken by the mob.

I don't think there is any subtle backstabber check, it just reduces the damage the mob "thinks" your doing. But even with that once you surpass the damage done by others, the mob turns aggro to you.

Always thought it was a pretty lousy enhancement line. Then again I play a dwarven strength rogue that uses stunning blow.

[ArkoHighStar]

why are you moving slower when you can walk right up to your target and THEN stealth?

if you are the first in you will have aggro form being seen first and thus not a get a sneak attack.

So your choice is either sneak up to target and kill, or use your method on targets already being attacked and are stationary, because if you think you will be able to attack a moving target while stealthed you are sadly mistaken.

[EinarMal]

why are you moving slower when you can walk right up to your target and THEN stealth?

there's at most a 1sec universal cooldown for stealthing... by then you should be spamming the death attack button.

Why require hitting an extra button at all then if it so easy? Either it makes it harder to use (my opinion) and it should be removed or it does nothing at all (your opinion) and should be removed for simplicity. Either way it should be removed.

[EinarMal]

if you are the first in you will have aggro form being seen first and thus not a get a sneak attack.

So your choice is either sneak up to target and kill, or use your method on targets already being attacked and are stationary, because if you think you will be able to attack a moving target while stealthed you are sadly mistaken.

Exactly, how often do mobs simply stand around and not move at all? Even a lot of "tank" type mobs do the bunny hop deal, and casters typically are running around like mad man. It is hard enough at full speed to get rolls on mobs with these types of attacks, while sneaking good luck.

[Laith]

if you are the first in you will have aggro form being seen first and thus not a get a sneak attack.

So your choice is either sneak up to target and kill, or use your method on targets already being attacked and are stationary, because if you think you will be able to attack a moving target while stealthed you are sadly mistaken.

*shrug* i guess tanks that actually take aggro are a rarer thing than i thoguh, and anticipating the mobs jumps (which isn't that hard when you pay attention) is a lost art.

yep... mobs "bunny hop" alot. they almost always do it the same way though.

oh well, i guess we'll see how it works on risia.