Weekly Developer Activities - 2/18/08

[Impaqt]

I still have not run into these 50+ DC traps saves on elite everyone mentions... And i have not been slack in trying to find them..

My Save Vs traps Without help from others is + 37 before IUD and buffs with out any gimpige to my combat ability.. After buffs (Which most of the time I have) I am certain it is higher but unsure what that number is... I have not been failing vs traps on elite unless I roll a 1..

Temple of Vol is VERY easy to test.... The Blade traps on teh RIght side are a 50.... Go test em.... You wont take Damage because they are bugged right now..... Just look at your combat log.

[Thrudh]

So now I cant do the trapsmithing I was once fully specced and able to do and obviously cant handle the role of a full caster due to my MC levels in most situations and you think this is a good thing. Ive never had any problem getting a group for my rogues, making trapsmith pure only isnt going to help you, trust me. lol

First off, you can still disable all the traps that don't require you to run through the trap first... so you're still 60-80% effective...

Secondly, as a wizard/rogue... perhaps the Insightful Reflexes feat might help you...

My bard/rogue is facing the same problems as you (although Insightful Reflexes will not help me)... I like the change, personally...

Pure Rogues should be able to stand in traps whistling a tune while they disarm...

I do think that us multi-class rogues, if we spend the feats and enhancement points, should be able to be effective as well though...

Personally, I like the new Trap Sense enhancement changes, but I'd also like to see elite trap DCs maybe drop by 3-4 points as well... That give us a multi-class a very good chance, while making traps easy for the pure rogues (which is how it should be, IMHO)

[UtherSRG]

[*]NEW Paladin Bulwark of Good IV:

• Cost: 8 Action Points
• Prereqs: Level 15 Paladin, Paladin Bulwark of Good III, 48 action points spent.
• Benefit: Your aura of good provides an additional +4 Armor Class bonus.

Um, I should be banned for what I am THINKING about this. No, I mean it. Really.

Its a joke, right? Ha, ha. You got me. You're being playful.

No, wait. You say you are serious?

So, lets see, store up action points for two entire levels, so you can raise everyone's AC by 1.

Is that love, or is that sick, sick, sick abuse? You make the call.

Here's a little friendly suggestion, Mr. Moderator. You go take it off the WDA before I COME OVER THERE!

Simma down...


But really, take a look at the progression for BoG. 8 APs is correct and should have been expected. But if you think you have to store up 2 levels worth of APs to get this, you aren't playing the Enhancement game well. There's a good chance of eventually finding a tome that's +1 better than the one you've already eaten for either CHA or WIS. Eat it and buy back 6APs that you already spent on increasing that stat. Now you only need to spend an additional 2 APs to get this enhancement.

And no, I'm not being flippant. I run 4 characters through the Reaver raid every 3 days. Each of them has eaten 2 +3 tomes, plus 3-4 +2 or +1 tomes. Hrm... I believe either my Cleric or Bard are due for their 40th run tomorrow.... with the other getting their 40th on Saturday...

[STROBE]

That was the primary reason we didn't create Bulwark of Good IV previously, but decided to make it available in case someone really wanted it.

Cause he/she would be really, really special.

Oh, wait. My bad. I am SO sorry. I forgot how oh so very, very precious 1 point of AC is in this game.

[Shaamis]

RE: x5+ Crit Multiplier bursts

We're covering our bases. The Deepwood Sniper enhancement allows you to increase your crit threat multiplier by one, and I expect that tech to be used elsewhere in the future.


There's also the bit about Divine Righteousness now lasting a minute. Most of the enhancement work thus far has been Monk/Rogue related, though. You'll see more in future WDA's.

In the higher end (aka Epic HB, and even before that?) there are feats that help increase teh weapons crit multiplier. this was usually restricted to certain prestige classes, but once the tech is implemented, could become a staple of a specialty class enhancement.

Bring on Mercurial Greatswords/Axes, with mproved crit multiplier!

<YAY!>and there was much rejoicing<YAY!>

[STROBE]

Simma down...


But really, take a look at the progression for BoG. 8 APs is correct and should have been expected. But if you think you have to store up 2 levels worth of APs to get this, you aren't playing the Enhancement game well. There's a good chance of eventually finding a tome that's +1 better than the one you've already eaten for either CHA or WIS. Eat it and buy back 6APs that you already spent on increasing that stat. Now you only need to spend an additional 2 APs to get this enhancement.

And no, I'm not being flippant. I run 4 characters through the Reaver raid every 3 days. Each of them has eaten 2 +3 tomes, plus 3-4 +2 or +1 tomes. Hrm... I believe either my Cleric or Bard are due for their 40th run tomorrow.... with the other getting their 40th on Saturday...

Being Flippant. Funny you should mention that. I was thinking impertinent. Absurd. Beyond belief.

But really? But really, you say. How about YOU but really this... YOU take a look at the indisputable fact that it takes two entire levels to earn 8 action points. Aint none of your New Math gonna change that F A C T.

I only play 3 hours a night 6 nights a weak. And what you just said above sounds like gibberish to me. But, heh, what do I know? I've only been playing a paladin in DDO for two years. I should have played a paladin as long as you have.

But don't mind little ol' impractical me. You have a nice day with your 158th, 159th, and 160th Reaver raid run, now, you hear? It sounds like SO much fun!

Well there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. We paladins need to run the Reaver raid 40 times, as a prequalification, and then we can become worthy of our new enhancement.

[dragnmoon]

Claims like this are the source of all the contention and problems, and are probably the reason that the DCs were messed up.

There is no way to achieve a +37 unbuffed save against traps without a trade-off in abilities that a rogue should find useful, and it most definitely impairs combat ability to some degree.

Glad you like your build. Most people don't.

Your wrong...

It is Easy..

Human At level 16 Rogue 32 Dex
Base +21 Save
Spectacular Optics +4
+25 Save
Rabbit Gloves +1
26 Save
+5 from trap sense
31 Reflex save
4 levels of trap sense enhancement +4
35
Potion of Heroism +2
37 Reflex save

Quite easy.. With no feats for it and I still have all the sneak attack enhancements & human Versatility III

In a Pinch i could get my reflex save to a +47 for a short time with no outside help..(Human versatility and IUD)


No feats used to help for my saves, took two-weapon fighting feats and weapon finesse

[Raithe]

Just off the top of my head, I put together a halfling 13rog/3pal that has a +48 standing reflex save (in traps) at the expenditure of 1 feat (luck of heroes) and 42 ap (+5 dexterity, +1 charisma, Pally RoG I, Halfling Luck III (Reflex), Improved Trap Sense IV and extra LoH I). That's a pretty decent AP expenditure, yes, but with 22 left, you can take +2 in DD, Search and Spot, SAA I, SAT II, subtle BackStabber III and Rogue Item Defense II.

Let's see:

1) Being a halfling means you do 1 less damage per hit than you would have (-2 str).
2) If you have a decent dex, intelligence (for searching and disabling), and charisma - your strength is probably not that good. Even less damage per hit.
3) Your spot and search may not be good enough for elite content unless you have a race restricted, skill-dedicated item. If you are going to metagame the trap locations, then guess what? You can metagame getting through them, too.
4) You don't have Human Versatility, and you don't list Skill Action Boost in your AP expenditures. There are probably several traps that will be difficult to find, and some that you'll have a chance to blow up.

Note that this is using a paladin/rogue (which I believe to be a broken aspect of the game), and you still are making trade-offs. My statement wasn't loaded... I was showing how the statement I quoted was.

I wouldn't call that gimped, and that's a saves-dedicated rogue who didn't sacrifice rogue skills or combat ability.

A halfling pure paladin who is strength-based will probably have around a 28 reflex save against traps - even with halfling luck and reflex enhancements. If you gear the game towards the paladin/rogue you built, you make the investments of the other build much less useful. This is one of the many large problems with the current overpowered enhancement system.

[Spectralist]

It's funny you should mention those.

Why do some spellcasters get metamagic enhancements but others don't?

Because the enhancement system is class based, whereas it should be based on what abilities you have. At least that's my interpretation of the problem.

[dragnmoon]

I see a few are under the misconception you have to over build to get the traps and be a good combat rogue in DDO..

Traps are easy to find an disable with out spending any AP or Feats.. you just need good items and a decent stats... 14 is good for Int and Wis (After items)..

Except for 1 Trap!!!... not worth over building for that 1 trap..

Getting your reflex save high for a Full rogue is easy with minimal expenditure of AP,, 10 AP

You can go 2 ways with rogues.. Str or Dex... Most of the Dmg from a rogue comes from sneak attacks so a Str rogue since he has no enhancements to help with crits (As a full rogue) does very little more dmg then a Dex based rogue..

Now I did spend Enhancements on Search on and Spot for 3 levels.. But I am unsure if i even had to. Both skills are in the 40s before buffs..

[Raithe]

Human At level 16 Rogue 32 Dex
Base +21 Save
Spectacular Optics +4
+25 Save
Rabbit Gloves +1
26 Save
+5 from trap sense
31 Reflex save
4 levels of trap sense enhancement +4
35
Potion of Heroism +2
37 Reflex save

First of all, you don't get the potion of heroism. This is unbuffed we are talking about, so you are short.

Second, are you honestly claiming that there are no trade-offs in this build? Wow... binnsr came much closer by using a paladin rogue (like everyone does...). A 32 dex on a human is by its very nature a trade-off in combat ability, saves, and charisma-based abilities. Using 22 action points and having to wear rabbit gloves and reflex save goggles on top of that is something more than just a trade-off...

[Impaqt]

Let's see:
3) Your spot and search may not be good enough for elite content unless you have a race restricted, skill-dedicated item. If you are going to metagame the trap locations, then guess what? You can metagame getting through them, too.

I'm not sure where the Myth that Halflings (or any Race that doesnt get Spot/Search Bonus') came from...

19 Ranks
13 Ite (should be easy to get now)
4 Greater Heroism
---
36

That covers about 98% Of the traps in the game..... Even on Elite......

Hopefully you can get your wisdom up to 14 if need be, thats 2 more, Spend 3 Actin Points on Spot ENH gets ya 2 more, Prayer Scroll is +1 thats 41.... Now your at 99.9%

Just the Cabal Trap on elite Exceeds a 41 Spot.

Search wise..

19 Ranks
13 Item
4 INT (ANd I feel thats Low.. Most rogues shouldhit +5 or +6)
4 Greter Hero
2 Enhancments
3 Boost (Just Skill Boost 2)
---
45 Search... again.. Hitting that 98% mark....
1 Prayer
1 Find Traps
---
47

Its really not that hard.......

[dragnmoon]

First of all, you don't get the potion of heroism. This is unbuffed we are talking about, so you are short.

Second, are you honestly claiming that there are no trade-offs in this build? Wow... binnsr came much closer by using a paladin rogue (like everyone does...). A 32 dex on a human is by its very nature a trade-off in combat ability, saves, and charisma-based abilities. Using 22 action points and having to wear rabbit gloves and reflex save goggles on top of that is something more than just a trade-off...

Not a trade off on Combat ability at all...Weapon finesse so I use Dex to hit.. I never miss on a Sneak attack... Never.. Even on Elite.. Str does minimal Dmg compared to sneak attack Dmg... even with a Crit.. so I only need my Str of 16 to carry more items.. I have a 18 Chr... UMD is not a problem for what I use it for... Healing myself.. and Some other helpfull wands and scrolls.

I actually said I can get my save up to 37 witout help from others .. I did count Self Buffage... I ment Without Other people buffing me..

Now I will give you Saves.. My Will sav and Fort Save are not the best in the world.. and I get hurt on that sometimes.. They usually hover around the +15 range i think..

And how are the goggles and Gloves a trade off?.. When I need to spot.. I put on my Spot goggles and put on my boots of innocence instead of striding boots.. I only wear the gloves at this time because I have not really got anything I really needed to replace them..

All this done with out Raid Loot...Except 1.. the bracers from Reaver.. THough there are some raid loot that would make me better... But I am still a Force to reckon with On Combat with sneak attack Dmg.. It is all about aggro control so you get the most out of your sneak attacks

[Raithe]

Traps are easy to find an disable with out spending any AP or Feats..
you just need good items and a decent stats... 14 is good for Int and Wis (After items)..

The spike trap above the ladder in the final climb in elite VoN 5 has a search DC of 40. A level 14 halfling will not be able to search it out with only +2 enhancements, a 14 intelligence, and a regular +13 search item...

Search
17 base
2 int
13 item
2 enhancements
4 gh
--------------
38

[Raithe]

19 Ranks
13 Ite (should be easy to get now)
4 Greater Heroism
---
36

That covers about 98% Of the traps in the game..... Even on Elite......

No, it doesn't cover 98% of the level-appropriate traps in the game. You seem to be misinformed, but I can understand that. The whole playerbase has gotten used to running through traps rather than bothering with disabling since Mod 3.3.

This change is not likely to make that situation better.

[dragnmoon]

The spike trap above the ladder in the final climb in elite VoN 5 has a search DC of 40. A level 14 halfling will not be able to search it out with only +2 enhancements, a 14 intelligence, and a regular +13 search item...

Search
17 base
2 int
13 item
2 enhancements
4 gh
--------------
38

Like I said Was unsure about Enhancements..I said 14 But i could be wrong since I always had a 18 Int and I was under the impression that the hardest search was around 36 Can anyone else confirm the 40 DC for that trap to search for?... and +13 items Drop like candy.. I almost get them every quest.. They are easy to get.. Now +15 items are hard to get.. I only have a +15 Search and Spot item..Only 2 I ever found...

I myself Never had problem with that trap on elite...

Edit: That all said.. I could be wrong with my numbers on my character they could have been higher then I thought by a few.. Not always paying attention because I never have to.. I am just trying to point out it takes minimal effort to build a rogue that can be great at combat and traps... even amazing at combat and great at traps.. to many people over build.. Though there are a few items i would love to have.. but that is all i am missing a few items.. which does not effect my build

[dragnmoon]

No, it doesn't cover 98% of the level-appropriate traps in the game. You seem to be misinformed, but I can understand that. The whole playerbase has gotten used to running through traps rather than bothering with disabling since Mod 3.3.

This change is not likely to make that situation better.

I search for every trap I fall into that i Can disable (some have no boxes)... and until level 16 I did not have a 40+ to search.. I have done all the quests except the abbot and a few of mod 6 on elite and never missed a trap excpet for 1 trap(the crazy 1).. I think your numbers are off...

[Hambo]

halfling sneak attacks just got obnoxiously better.

+8 from halfling guile, +8 for a +5 backstab weapon, and +12 from rogue sneak attack training = +26 per backstab before any dice are thrown - that's more than some classes do in total damage on a swing.

Happy day to you, Rameses.

My 6 Rogues are all doing the happy dance

[dragnmoon]

My 6 Rogues are all doing the happy dance

LOL.. that is allot of halfling rogues...

[EinarMal]

LOL.. that is allot of halfling rogues...

What is really crazy is that a halfling with only 4 levels of Rogue would get 2d6 +6(Rogue Sneak Damage II) + 8(Halfling) +8(Weapon) or +29 average damage per swing from 4 levels of Rogue....It takes a lot of action points to do it though.