Permanent Item Damage and Death Penalty changes

[ArkoHighStar]

If the option is to have bound items or no bound items, given there is no way to unbind something, I'd rather play with a system where there were no bound items.

I have no problem with the optional binding the choice is yours, even if we get Turbine to get rid of the item damage component on death, it could have some good uses on all bound items and those who don't move equipment around. I think where most of us agree is that the item damage on death is an attempt to have us bind more gear to get it out of the economy, and that is bad

[Hendrik]

My point is that if I'm doing 3k lat average now, it'll go up under the new system. I dont not get alot nor have alot of gold.

Your doing 30,000 gold in repairs. But with only your equipped items gaining damage now, that will drop right off the bad. Instead of everything in your inventory getting damage, or the potential to get damage, now only a maximum of 14 items can get damaged.

Thats a savings right there, don't ya think? Less items to repair means less repairs, less money spent. Add in a 25% reduction in repair costs which 'helps' offset the visits to the 'smiths.

To further mitigate your repair costs, research Item Defense.

And remember, Expert repairs are substantially more expensive.

[Ron]

I think where most of us agree is that the item damage on death is an attempt to have us bind more gear to get it out of the economy, and that is bad

Why bad, Arko? I would argue that it's a good thing, not bad.

[xman26]

Great, go ahead. The non-bound items system has item damage. So play away.

Or was this a feeble attempt to try to get raid-loot and other such items unbound?

I have no issue with raid items that are binding as most I dont want or use as they are useless, but if I bind something to my main character, I should be able to unbind it aswell.

[ArkoHighStar]

Why bad, Arko? I would argue that it's a good thing, not bad.

because we are being forced to do it, to save it. what the new system says is don't bind and you pretty much guaranteed to have that item useless given some time.

[NiasTrams]

Alright I have some questions for DEVs as well as some points and an example I wish to post.

First, for the DEVs;

Have seen some post from others stating that upon being raised in a quest they could nolonger use thier equipment that they nolonger high enough level for, will the tempoary debuffs to level prevent us from using equipment we were wearing before we died?

Also want to know if the new DP will, as I suspect, allow for multiple items to become broke and unusable during the quest if I die frequently? I ask this because that is what happens when I forget to pack a club or two when going into a slimey/oozy area and only have a sickle and sword to choose from? (This question is based on what happened to a low level rogue I was working on for awhile.)

Is XP regeneration based on favor because 2 of my 3 primary toons don't regenerate while offline if in debt (but they are capped so I know when I do the Reaver's Fate raid they will be flush again)? No, I don't like being in debt even when capped, as someone else insinuated,m it's a personal pride thing.

It is being assumed that permanent damage repair, when available, will be for only bound items; would like clarification on this so debating an issue that isn't an issue doesn't tie up this enourmous thread.

Raiding party feedback under current system;

Recently did Titan as both a sorcerer (14.4) and a rogue/wizard (14.3, 9.3/5); won't be specific about Titan so post isn't removed as a spoiler.

Sorcerer's party was a PUG that built up to full 12 capacitity after starting off with just 3 of us, asked and was granted ability to sit and watch person controlling targeting machine on Titan part and the end chest did produce 4 or 5 pieces of Raid loot. Was only a few small clicks in the way of guilds, was mostly a random PUG.

Rogue/wizard was in a PUG, but was only 6 man and used one of the many alternative ways to beat the first half without actually beating the first half. For his first time, was asked to do one of the primary task, sneaking was supposed to help, but didn't, died about 5 or 6 times. When asked if someone else knew the task, was relieved immediately and given old task of standing where told. After the numerous deaths this was actually a relief, ended up approximately 9.5K away from 14.4 when, under the proposed system, would of reached 14.4 because only a little over 2K would of leveled me. This rogue/wizard is my first build in a MMO, and as such, doesn't have a max/min build which makes him undesirable for most power/hard-core gamer parties.

Both also recently did Reaver's Fate and sadly, the sorcerer got over 10K in XP which went nowhere, forever lost and the rogue/wizard got 710 XP which, combined with 1 death resulted in negative XP towards getting capped at 14.4. Both were in PUG parties with few clicks/guilds mixed in, both were complete parties of 12 and both had multiple raid loot drops, but in sorcerers case, majority of party had repeated raid numerous times and what dropped were mostly desireable items for most of party. In the rogue's case, many of the party were new to that raid so all the loot looked good (wasn't already acquired by those needing and able to use it).

Like many people have voiced concerns about; all I do are PUG because I don't want to be part of a guild, how will the prosed changes effect PUGs?

Will it widen the gaps between the different play styles?

Will permenant property damage, real or imagined, make PUGs rare because, despite it being a fantasy, it is a material world also? This can be summed up by paraphrasing a warforged I PUGged with before; in essence, when I get a new docent that is better than what I have the looks aren't important, but future docents I try to get a "cool" looking appearance. It is a very material world in which we play in.

Before heading back to post #955 I am going to take a break; eagerly awaiting what future reading will bring, let alone Mod 6.0.

[tekn0mage]

Why bad, Arko? I would argue that it's a good thing, not bad.

Come on man, there's been over 1,000 posts in this thread already. Do you really need a re-hash of everything or are you just trying to bait him into another argument?

[Ron]

Come on man, there's been over 1,000 posts in this thread already. Do you really need a re-hash of everything or are you just trying to bait him into another argument?

And I've read all of them. Not a single one of them explains to me why taking items out of the economy is a bad thing.

[xman26]

Your doing 30,000 gold in repairs. But with only your equipped items gaining damage now, that will drop right off the bad. Instead of everything in your inventory getting damage, or the potential to get damage, now only a maximum of 14 items can get damaged.

Thats a savings right there, don't ya think? Less items to repair means less repairs, less money spent. Add in a 25% reduction in repair costs which 'helps' offset the visits to the 'smiths.

To further mitigate your repair costs, research Item Defense.

And remember, Expert repairs are substantially more expensive.

I dont know about you, but I use a multitude of weapons during quests. I'll use a vorp, disrupt and a few elemental type weapons during a quest depending on what we come across. And I ver rarely have to repair items from my backpack, its almost always(99% of time) items I've used during the quest.

[dragnmoon]

And I've read all of them. Not a single one of them explains to me why taking items out of the economy is a bad thing.

because I will make less plat... There... here you go.. a reason..

[Hendrik]

because we are being forced to do it, to save it. what the new system says is don't bind and you pretty much guaranteed to have that item useless given some time.

But Arko, we have that right now on Live. Given time, it is guaranteed your item will be useless. There is no change between the old and new in that aspect. What they did give us is the choice to guarantee that item will be useful. Like all choices, it comes at a cost.



Is that looking at it half full or half empty?

[ArkoHighStar]

And I've read all of them. Not a single one of them explains to me why taking items out of the economy is a bad thing.

becuase then there is no economy just a bunch of people with bound gear. I and many others like the trading aspect of the game, it helps make the down time betwen mods more bearable and extends our experience

[MysticTheurge]

what the new system says is don't bind and you pretty much guaranteed to have that item useless given some time.

Meanwhile the old system said "you're pretty much guaranteed to have an item become useless given the time, ha ha sucks to be you."

The new system gives you options. No one's forcing you to bind anything.

[ArkoHighStar]

But Arko, we have that right now on Live. Given time, it is guaranteed your item will be useless. There is no change between the old and new in that aspect. What they did give us is the choice to guarantee that item will be useful. Like all choices, it comes at a cost.



Is that looking at it half full or half empty?

no but i can sell it, trade it, auction it, give it away to an unsuspecting newbie(which I do often), in fact one night I gave away about 30 items I had kept over time to new players in the marketplace

[Serpent]

And I've read all of them. Not a single one of them explains to me why taking items out of the economy is a bad thing.

Because for many of us that would not be fun and that would be a bad thing. Go ahead disagree are you having no fun with the current death system. If you are still having fun then there is no reason to support an idea that takes away fun from others.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Meanwhile the old system said "you're pretty much guaranteed to have an item become useless given the time, ha ha sucks to be you."

The new system gives you options. No one's forcing you to bind anything.

If, as it seems to me, the new system is permadamaging your gear more often than the old system then I really dont have a choice
whether I want to bind my items, do I?

I either bind them or they are gone.

Like I said before in this post, rarely do I see permadamage on my gear right now, I repair after every quest and I never let
damage build up. I dont repair anywhere specifically, no where expert, and I honestly receive very little permadamage.

And again, with the present system very few items are getting damaged. Maybe my melee weapons, maybe my armour, a cloak
here or there...sometimes a ring. When I die a **** load of equipment is being damaged.

So where is my choice? Let everything in my backpack become useless or bind my equipment?

[ArkoHighStar]

Meanwhile the old system said "you're pretty much guaranteed to have an item become useless given the time, ha ha sucks to be you."

The new system gives you options. No one's forcing you to bind anything.

yes but that time is much shorter now given that items that normally do not take damage will now, example I have a nice bow collection on my rogue which I plan to pass down to my ranger when he gets high enough level, I cannot remember even one time my bow took perm damage simply because it rarely took damage, now that bow is much more likely to get damaged, so my options are to bind, and grind for another set of bows or just stop playing my rogue t keep them in good shape, sounds like fun to me. Mystic as someone who does not raid I imagine you do not see the costs and damage we already get by running into content first. The gamne is fun for us for the exact reason it is not fun for you and Ron. Death hurts but the penalty is enough for us to soldier on. I do not play a combat oriented mmo so I can spend all my time worrying about item damage, that to me is just not fun, it is work, and I already have a job. I play this game to reliev my stress not cause it.

Only when the final system goies live will we see the true silent majority come out, because despite all the views here we wil never have a true picture of the typical ddo player, because there isn't one. It looks like they are sliding on the item damage and we will see what they come up with. If it goes live and everyone still enjoys the game, life will go on. If it doesn't you will see everyone and their uncle in here and changes will be made. So really it is out of all of our hands, and I suspect we will end up with something nobody really likes but somethnig everyone can live with, otherwise there will be an exodus of some players who will go on to play something else.

[Serpent]

Meanwhile the old system said "you're pretty much guaranteed to have an item become useless given the time, ha ha sucks to be you."

The new system gives you options. No one's forcing you to bind anything.

It is not forcing us to do anything that is correct, what it is doing is removing an aspect form the game (twinking, trading, searching, giving, helping, etc) that many (dare I say a large majority) enjoy.

And If i need to explain how that will be hindered or removed then many are not thinking hard enough.

[ArkoHighStar]

It is not forcing us to do anything that is correct, what it is doing is removing an aspect form the game (twinking, trading, searching, giving, helping, etc) that many (dare I say a large majority) enjoy.

And If i need to explain how that will be hindered or removed then many are not thinking hard enough.

Again if you don't have many capped characters, or don't do a lot of end content raiding and looting, this is an aspect of the game that will be totall unfamiliar to you

[Polsih]

And I've read all of them. Not a single one of them explains to me why taking items out of the economy is a bad thing.

Ron,
Here's my general opinion of why taking items out of the economy might be a bad thing.

Maybe I've got my economics all wrong, but the more "uber" items we have in circulation ... the less valuable they are ... not the other way around.

So, if people utilize Binding to protect their items instead of passing them on via the AH, to a guildie or the rare "I don't really know you, but it's your lucky day" gifting, those who base their business on selling uber items will have their goods be worth that much more.

I think that will be one of the unintended consequences that the current proposed implementation of the death penalty might bring. That, and having folks recall to repair damaged equipment.

So, while I prefer MT's progressive equipment damage death penalty ... I'd really prefer equipment be left out of the mix. While some folks can handle the ramifications of getting their [Golden Cartouche, w/p rapier, Heavy Fort Ant-man hat, etc.] damaged to the point that they have to get a replacement ... some can't. And, I enjoy this game way too much to see it lose folks.