C'mon CODOG... say or do something!

[Dane_McArdy]

Way to quote out of context.

He has a good point in the rest of it.

Well, what parts are good? Like the free attack? how is that meant to happen? Should the computer decide, hey, this kobold is to busy running around, take control of your character and make it attack?

The stuff about AC dropping when moving?

[moorewr]

Way to quote out of context.

He has a good point in the rest of it.

I don't think I altered the spirit of his comment. I admit I'm not sure if he meant combatants or combat, or whether the mobs or characters were stupid, or the whole combat itself, but that's what he said.

EDIT: OK< devs, why are the combats so stupid?

[Riddikulus]

Well, what parts are good? Like the free attack? how is that meant to happen? Should the computer decide, hey, this kobold is to busy running around, take control of your character and make it attack?

The stuff about AC dropping when moving?

Taking the first half of one sentence of a paragraph and saying it's not constructive, when the rest of the paragraph had a couple points in it is quoting out of context.

The middle part is basically talking about AOO, which we know is not implemented here.

The last sentence is certainly stating exactly what a lot of people are talking about here.

[llevenbaxx]

what I don't get is why the combats are so stupid, aren't these guys supposed to have that "you're goin down attitude"? Why the does a kobold mage thats hittin for 70pts a pop run around you 900 times and you don't get like a free attack or anything.. do their ac's not drop when they move? Ranged combat isn't great any more because the guys always run in retarted directions so you never get any real shots off.

Actually their AC would go up while moving I would think. Not really an issue in PnP obviously but I would think firing at a moving target would be much the same as firing while moving, it would be more difficult.

Are you eluding to attacks of opportunity with the "free" attack thing? Not every mob thinks the same, it sounds like you think casters are just supposed to stand still and unleash all their magic on you while you beat on/pin cushion them. Not really the way any wizard(more intelligent & squishy version of w/e base creature) would act. He would actually try to avoid being hit.

I get some of the wonky movement you speak of though, where a mob is there one second and somewhere else the next, not sure whos side its on but is prolly the reason I havnt taken my ranged characters very far. I think thats what hes working to figure out though.

[baylensman]

To draw somewhat back to a previous point.
DPS on ranged weapons does not improve enough as levels increase to make it effective beyond about level 8. Acquiring the rare UBER bow helps somewhat.
A single swing with a +2 battle axe, with out burst or other elemental enhancements, by a level 14 fighter type can cause significant damage add elemental effects, burst damage and critical multipliers, some really impressive numbers show on the screen. With sprint boost or haste the number of hits in a typical round adds up quick.
Using any ranged weapons (thrown or bow driven) you just can't even close to the kind of damage. Regardless of cover a targeted mob will almost immediatley zero in on the ranged attacker.
Enough complaints
Possible solutions.
Allow longer range hits with level progression. Allow "Shot from cover" as an enhancement. Increase possible damage per hit with level increases. Drop rate of Uber bows should increase. New damage types , Bow of the Asassian,
like a vorpal on a confirmed critical instant death.

[moorewr]

Hey, if it's good enough for Fox News reporters, who are you to get on my case?

Taking the first half of one sentence of a paragraph and saying it's not constructive, when the rest of the paragraph had a couple points in it is quoting out of context.

The middle part is basically talking about AOO, which we know is not implemented here.

The last sentence is certainly stating exactly what a lot of people are talking about here.

[Dane_McArdy]

Taking the first half of one sentence of a paragraph and saying it's not constructive, when the rest of the paragraph had a couple points in it is quoting out of context.

The middle part is basically talking about AOO, which we know is not implemented here.

The last sentence is certainly stating exactly what a lot of people are talking about here.

I wasn't talking about what wasn't constructive, I was asking what you saw as valid. But the post makes a good example. It's starts off with an insult. Ok, get past that. It talks about AOO. It mentions that their AC should go down when moving. Why? That's not how the game works.

So within his posts are several things that don't apply in DDO or the game in general, an insult, and then a good statement about how the mobs move.

This is what they mean when they say just make your point and leave everything else out, and then we won't have to look for the good parts. Because they just don't have time to do that.

I don't see a way to make AOO like DnD in a live action combat, short of invisilbe rolls with no animation and applying the damage, because otherwise, it seems to me it relies on the player having to swing at the right time.

How do you see them being able to implement free attacks?

[Riddikulus]

I wasn't talking about what wasn't constructive, I was asking what you saw as valid. But the post makes a good example. It's starts off with an insult. Ok, get past that. It talks about AOO. It mentions that their AC should go down when moving. Why? That's not how the game works.

So within his posts are several things that don't apply in DDO or the game in general, an insult, and then a good statement about how the mobs move.

This is what they mean when they say just make your point and leave everything else out, and then we won't have to look for the good parts. Because they just don't have time to do that.

Oh I agree shortening it would be best, but that's no reason to just quote a bit out of context and say he's not being constructive.

It's stupid because ...

OK one of his becauses isn't exactly right, so we tell him.

I don't see a way to make AOO like DnD in a live action combat, short of invisilbe rolls with no animation and applying the damage, because otherwise, it seems to me it relies on the player having to swing at the right time.

How do you see them being able to implement free attacks?

I don't. The ranged combat system in DDO is very unD&D-like in general so it's really wouldn't be possible to put a rule like that in.

[Dane_McArdy]

Oh I agree shortening it would be best, but that's no reason to just quote a bit out of context and say he's not being constructive.

It's stupid because ...

OK one of his becauses isn't exactly right, so we tell him.


I don't. The ranged combat system in DDO is very unD&D-like in general so it's really wouldn't be possible to put a rule like that in.

But the whole point is this, he starts off with, this is stupid. Dev's have said that when posts start like that, they don't bother reading past it, no matter how many good points come after stupid.

So yes, saying stupid wasn't constructive, because no matter what he may have to say after that, is lost, because he made it so the devs will most likely not read past that.

So point out that saying it wasn't constructive is a fair assessment of his post, because he basically made it so Turbine isn't going to read past the first statement, and find the good point.

It's that simple. I think it's clear, the dev's read the forums, but the dev's don't have time to respond to everything. If they say, starting out with insults will gaurentee your post doesn't get read, you only have your self to blame.

Codog even said, he doesn't like to reward rants and such with a response, because he feels it only encourages people to continue to post like that.

So basically, the choice is ours on how we comminucate to the devs. If people feel they aren't being heard, perhaps it's not they have to say, it's how they are saying it.

And saying they need to rise above the insults and do their job. I'm sorry, it's not their job to take peoples insults and rudeness.

[EinarMal]

But the whole point is this, he starts off with, this is stupid. Dev's have said that when posts start like that, they don't bother reading past it, no matter how many good points come after stupid.

So yes, saying stupid wasn't constructive, because no matter what he may have to say after that, is lost, because he made it so the devs will most likely not read past that.

So point out that saying it wasn't constructive is a fair assessment of his post, because he basically made it so Turbine isn't going to read past the first statement, and find the good point.

It's that simple. I think it's clear, the dev's read the forums, but the dev's don't have time to respond to everything. If they say, starting out with insults will gaurentee your post doesn't get read, you only have your self to blame.

Codog even said, he doesn't like to reward rants and such with a response, because he feels it only encourages people to continue to post like that.

So basically, the choice is ours on how we comminucate to the devs. If people feel they aren't being heard, perhaps it's not they have to say, it's how they are saying it.

And saying they need to rise above the insults and do their job. I'm sorry, it's not their job to take peoples insults and rudeness.

Please stop de-railing threads spreading pro turbine propaganda. The point of this thread is to discuss ranged combat and what is wrong with it not whether one post was constructive or not. Anyone who has played around with ranged combat for very long can see the disadvantages it has in the current system compared to melee.

[Missing_Minds]

Please stop de-railing threads spreading pro turbine propaganda. The point of this thread is to discuss ranged combat and what is wrong with it not whether one post was constructive or not. Anyone who has played around with ranged combat for very long can see the disadvantages it has in the current system compared to melee.

I don't think it is pro or con turbine, but it is derailing the thread a bit.

However, the disadvantages the current system has compared to melee?

If ranged combat would
1) stop loosing the dice rolls.
2) have PCs lead their shots just like NPCs lead their shots. Having PCs not lead their shots when targeting creatures but instead shoot where they were last standing is rather stupid of any competent person. Not all (in fact I'd say maybe 50% at best have the FPS twitch skills necessary to play non mouse look style.)

These two things would balance melee vs ranged. Sure ranged has less of an attack rate, but if you let the melees take agro first, unless you crit that often or the melees suck that bad, you never have to worry about getting attacked by a melee mob. Aka very little chance of death.

Now if this is stuff you had in mind, great! I just have a hard time telling what you think would be balanced.

[Boulderun]

The kind of developer interaction in this thread is something the game has desperately needed, and I want to support that and thank Codog.

This also seems a good place to bring up the repeater third shot delay issue, since bug reporting it has gone nowhere. Shoot, hit/damage roll, shoot, hit/damage roll, shoot, reload, hit/damage roll. The third shot is not resolved until after the reload animation completes. It happens often with both manual and auto fire, and spacing out the shots manually does not help.

[Strakeln]

Go Codog Go!!!!!!

[Dane_McArdy]

Please stop de-railing threads spreading pro turbine propaganda. The point of this thread is to discuss ranged combat and what is wrong with it not whether one post was constructive or not. Anyone who has played around with ranged combat for very long can see the disadvantages it has in the current system compared to melee.

Well I tried to stick to the thread, by discussing the points in that one post, and asking Ridik what parts he felt was valid and important. If you notice, that was what I asked first and only.

But it kept going back to that point, so I responded to what was addressed to me, much like this post has nothing to do about the issues.

But I'm sorry, talking about how you get your message across is important.

[MysticTheurge]

But I'm sorry, talking about how you get your message across is important.

So is picking your battles.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Ranged Combat fix, FTW! I can't wait to see how this fix revitalizes Ranged combat. We've been imagining several other fixes/changes in the Ranger forums for quite some time. But, who knows what will be needed until after we experience Ranged combat as it was meant to be.

[Missing_Minds]

This may have ended up being an isolated incident, but I don't know.

I was running in sorrowdusk going for kills when an oger decided it wanted me. Meh, oger, I can kill it.

Well... sort of. It was one of the ogers up at the archway near the hell hounds. After killing the troll, I got the attention of the oger (I'm doing ranged attacks bow based) and he comes own the path towards the ruins to kill me.

I'm fine with his. I expect it. He then for some reason ends up behind one of the trees. I can not shoot him at all because he has 100% cover. Again I'm fine with this. From what I can see of it, it is facing perpendicular to the tree. His left shoulder is up against it.

Again I'm fine, it means it can't shoot me either. he'd have to shoot through the tree to shoot me. WRONG. The sucker shoots straight. I am 90% ccw from him and he shoots straight. The arrow goes out 1 foot from him, and hangs an emediate LEFT to hit me!
Since when can arrows make 90 degree turns? I really should have turned on fraps to record this as he was having a bit of a time trying to hit me, but I'm just watching him stand there behind the tree, his arrows making 90 degree turns and trying to hit me. (apparently he rolled low)
It is things like this that I am greatful for a bit of an arrow trail so we can watch shots.

[Codog]

However I am astounded at the feedback and devotion that we have received from Codog. In my honest opinion this would be an example of TOO MUCH feedback, and what I mean by that is this: on a daily basis issues(some of which might actually matter to me) will be brought up and ignored by the devs that truly needed attention.

HellfireLackey,

You are completely right about this issue being overexposed. I rarely come out of my development cave to talk to people about issues we are addressing or choosing to not address yet. Our management has one of the hardest jobs in the world, prioritizing our tasks. As far as this issue is concerned, this is one of the bugs that keeps getting re-opened. It is the bad penny bug in that it is always turning back up. At the moment, my priorities are to fix critical current issues, work on new features for upcoming modules, and bug fix. I've chosen this bug as the pet bug that I work on at night when my regular work is done.

Sometimes I really feel a need to come out of my cave and reconnect with you. There are lots of dedicated developers who are very silent on the forums. Let's face it! You are an educated, quick witted, and intimidating group of players to converse with. So this particular problem is just one of the issues I'm working on right now. However, I want you all to know that we are still here, we're still passionate, we still play our game, and more or less want a lot of the same things that you do.

It is a privilege to be a developer on this team. You are a very constructive, helpful, and respectful audience to work with.

Best wishes,

Codog

PS. Don't think that every night I'm up till 2:00am working on bugs all the time. I do have a wife and kids to look after. It's great when your 7 year old daughter gets out of bed walks into your office room and says, "What's up with all the kobolds dad? What kind of arrows are those?"

[moorewr]

I'm now officially a Codog fan boy. See signature.

My four-year-old daughter likes to swim in the harbor, and she tells me to go into the "Cewoooolian hills." then when a mob shows up she hides under my desk and yells "HIT IT!" rather ferociously. There's dutch courage for you. Her other favorite thing is for me to help Scrag, the "nice Kobold."

My wife reports that she (our daughter) has declared she is a Capuchian Monkey this morning and is "gathering nuts to pound on a rock."

[MysticTheurge]

Let's face it! You are an educated, quick witted, and intimidating group of players to converse with.

Word.

It's great when your 7 year old daughter gets out of bed walks into your office room and says, "What's up with all the kobolds dad? What kind of arrows are those?"

Codog's daughter wins the internet.