U52: Two shuriken builds with damage calculations

[Arkat]

nt

[kaipan]

After learning of this (imbuement scaling), I did some math but very quickly and without any doublechecking. Still if you want to chime in and comment I'd be grateful:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ment-WITH-BOWS

[octoparrott]

i played your monk20 shuricannon variant - swapped some stuff around to accommodate missing gear or personal preferences

slotted dex instead of using nebula neck - leg guile instead of perfected
no omniscience or tumbleweed so ins-dex ring and slotted replacements
ran both tinkerers and suulo sets
swapped wellspring for IPS to enable stance switching because im too lazy to remember to use wellspring anwyay
stay good shiradi and offhand bitter edge for freezing procs and para procs together
switched deflect in gmof for whirling steel to enable the above choice

works just fine r6+ front-facing enemys with aggro
is a different level of effective when aggro on someone else and stacking sneak damage

did some screen record from a lazy r6 feywild circuit - will link on this post when i upload them

nice job - figured someone ought to actually run it instead of leaving it as a theorycraft

peep
wreck

[Arkat]

So all the Force (Impulse) spellpower is really for adding to Dark Imbuement's damage. Got it.

[Oliphant]

I'm trying out 14/6 HW T5+capstone version.

• At level 28 and getting by ok with 15 wildwatch set, Borderlands type of stuff for ranged dps, Borderlands Shuriken, then Thunderforged Shuriken, then the level 28 Spike named Shuriken (have all the completionist and rp stuff going).
• Basically, I'm a baby that is about to be born.
• Keeping things simple 20-28 using Hunts End with Sniper Shot only since the force power is not really setup yet.
• Curious to see how Shadow Strike works in practice the way that ranged attack reliability seems down for me lately.
• Curious to see a break even calculation of when Hunts End beats Shadow Strike based on assumed ranged attack glitch rate.
• Hunts End seems tailor made for glitchy ranged badness right now.
• For some reason, the faster my attack rate the less glitchy ranged seems to be to me, and I'm trying to account for the extra bias of seeing more good data and good results streaming my way.
• Seems like toon taking its sweet time throwing in early game just gives the game more chance to screw up sending data packets (or something).
• Will report back how it all goes at Level 29-30 and some time with it.
• I suspect I will have the materials to make the gear set fairly soon, but not sure about Slavers mats (might be busted on some of those right now).
• Very counter intuitive to arrive at full HW capstone with throwing, so many points burned on bow stuff to get to 41, will be fun to test it.

Thanks!

[Oliphant]

At level 30 now. Have the weapon, filigrees and set items in place. Using Leroux's implant. Have slotted in some of the augments but no set augments yet. Made a L. Red Dragon robe. Have the proper GoMF started but waiting on adding Cannith effects except I added the Impulse SP. Have a two augment random Kama ready to craft but holding until the rest of gear is closer to final. Generally going to wait for U53 to shake out before spending more resources on Cannith and Slavers crafting or making more legendary items (have to farm more star fragments basically). Seems to be going ok so far, leading kill counts in mid-reaper PUG situations, low-n data so far though.

Noticed:

• Hunt's End affect lasts longer than Shadow Strike cool down.
• Can be sneaky at onset and hit enemies with Hunt's End enabled Sniper Shot then Shadow Strike immediately.
• Can hit Hunt's End, wait until cool down is over and (apparently) use a Hunt's End enabled Shadow Strike.
• I have not battle tested difference between Hunt's End + Sniper Shot versus what happens when you Hunt's End, wait, then Hunt's End enabled Shadow Strike.

[Carpone]

As of U53, Shadowstrike no longer scales with both RP and force spellpower, which is what is making it overperform today. It will now scale with the higher of RP or force spellpower. You can still get force spellpower much higher than RP (420 RP vs 700ish Force SP), if you want to use Shadowstrike. For pure monk builds, Shadowstrike remains the sole epic strike option. For 6 Ranger splits, Hunt's End + Sniper Shot outperforms Shadowstrike.

Shadowstrike (Ranged) has also changed such that if you miss with Shadowstrike, you will no longer receive the Dark Imbuement buff. It's a feels bad change.

I'll be posting a ranged build showdown with update DPS numbers once U53 has been released.

[Carpone]

I have not battle tested difference between Hunt's End + Sniper Shot versus what happens when you Hunt's End, wait, then Hunt's End enabled Shadow Strike.

Paper math only goes so far -- you should actually test it. Then you'll see the HE is consumed with the next auto-attack you take.

[Oliphant]

Paper math only goes so far -- you should actually test it. Then you'll see the HE is consumed with the next auto-attack you take.

When I say battle tested I mean it needs more time. When I say I noticed I mean I noticed in game actually playing it. I'm still in a dynamic state getting gear together so seeing numbers on the screen does not give me a confident read on what's actually going on yet. I'm not using auto-attack so I push HE and wait. I will say, pushing HE, waiting, then pushing Shadow Strike has yielded the biggest number so far, but I have not been using Shadow Strike much yet as I've not setup the force spell power yet.

[Carpone]

I will say, pushing HE, waiting, then pushing Shadow Strike has yielded the biggest number so far, but I have not been using Shadow Strike much yet as I've not setup the force spell power yet.

You're conflating things. Shadowstrike has zero dependency on force spell power. Dark Imbuement is what benefits from force spell power, but has no bearing on chasing "big numbas" by combining HE + Shadowstrike.

Chasing screenshot worthy damage is a poor representation of a build. Overall, waiting like you do is a huge DPS loss.

[Oliphant]

You're conflating things. Shadowstrike has zero dependency on force spell power. Dark Imbuement is what benefits from force spell power, but has no bearing on chasing "big numbas" by combining HE + Shadowstrike.

All I said is I have not tested it much since I have not used Shadowstrike much due to not having force setup yet (I was only level 28 when I said that). I thought Dark Imbuement is triggered by Shadowstrike, and would be my motive for using Shadowstrike. It was just some deferred build finishing in a fairly fast leveling process. I'm aware there is an overall balance of the direct dps and the debuffing from shadowloss but I will have to be trying things and testing for a while to have any real conclusions.

Chasing screenshot worthy damage is a poor representation of a build. Overall, waiting like you do is a huge DPS loss.

I would definitely not suggest someone just not attack for 8 second stretches so they can get one big screenshot blast. However, HE is already about pre-loading before battles so why not hit them with both? Seems inherently interesting and should not be controversial to posit the question of whether HE can apply to Shadowstrike. So far it seems to me you can in fact hit HE wait and hit with Shadowstrike at the jump. I was not seeing numbers on Shadowstrike alone in the same ball park as HE + Shadowstrike.

So far if I had to choose between this build and your wood elf bow build, I'd go with whichever is doing the most debuffs that help the whole party (hard for me to tell easily), with some additional nudge of favor toward the bow thing due to trapping utility. They are both a lot of fun. Seems like the bow build debuffing really helps the party do boss damage, especially in random PUG situations. I have no clue yet how the Shuriken 14/6 split compares yet.

My latest puzzle with this build is how I optimize around 62 ED points. Being 2 shy of 64 makes it hard to squeeze in the best of Shiradi T5, all the SD stuff and last of the fire stance thing from GMoF. I've been leaning toward skipping Shadowstrike/Dark Imbue and keeping the GMoF fire stance thing. In line with my wish for more party debuffs I should probably go with SD stuff instead and drop the GMoF fire thing or something else though. I will be testing this for months more than likely to be honest. I'm pretty far down the road of finishing the gear set. The outlier for me is Quickblade augments; they will take a while to farm. I have not looked at the new gear coming yet.

[Carpone]

With U53, there's no reason to have both Hunt's End and Shadow Strike.

34 Shiradi (obvious stuff)
13 Shadowdancer (Core 3, Cover of Darkness 3, Stealthy 2, Dance in the Dark 3, Shadowstriker)
14 GMOF (Core 3, Inner Focus 3, Enlightenment 3, Hail of Blows, Flickering Flame 3).
--
61

[Ulfo]

With U53, there's no reason to have both Hunt's End and Shadow Strike.

Why? I read nothing about "fix" double scaling RP/MP +Force SP in Shadowdancer, only in Fatesinger Discord. I missing something?

[Carpone]

Why? I read nothing about "fix" double scaling RP/MP +Force SP in Shadowdancer, only in Fatesinger Discord. I missing something?

DI double dipping was mentioned as fixed in the DDO Discord at the same time Cut the Strings was brought up. There are several other things mentioned as fixed in the bug channel that aren't included in the release notes. Will have to test to see if it got changed for this update.

[Carpone]

An example of a fix in U53 that didn't make it into the release notes: Persistent spells like Symbols, Blade Barrier, etc are no longer blocking projectiles.

[Ulfo]

An example of a fix in U53 that didn't make it into the release notes: Persistent spells like Symbols, Blade Barrier, etc are no longer blocking projectiles.

Spells should no longer block projectiles.

This fix is present in notes. Spell section.

[Tilomere]

DI double dipping was mentioned as fixed in the DDO Discord

I'm not gonna lie, it makes me laugh when something is accidentally well-designed and balanced due to a bug subsequently gets bug fixed. It seemed like such a mathematically elegant system that I would have designed that it had to be WAI. I'm disappointed in myself.

Sorry I screwed up, and should have left you to your Hunt's End sniper shot bow builds.

[Tarinia]

[QUOTE=Carpone;6489637]Monk 20

Monk 14 Ranger 6 (DWS T5)

Monk 14 Ranger 6 (Horizon Walker T5+Capstone)

Damage comparison

The damage numbers do contain personal debuffs, which in this case is limited to Shadow Loss from Shadow Strike for the pure Monk. The numbers also include Favored Enemy damage, which is highly relevant with the Horizon Walker capstone.

I cant access the builds- google drive tells me theyy are deleted- can you post them again please?
Thanks
TArinia

[Carpone]

The builds in this thread are outdated, and the guide has been deleted. Builds have a shelf life, and I don't want people referencing this thread years from now like other outdated threads here.

The latest shuriken builds for U53 are posted here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-for-17-Builds

Check the build links in the spreadsheet for the build you're interested in.

[Oliphant]

Wow, that is a lot of update information! Extremely thorough, just wow!