U52: Two shuriken builds with damage calculations

[Tilomere]

And now I wonder if Monk's with longbows are getting full BAB with Zen archery.

Yes, and you can stop at BaB 25 (lvl 29 on pure 20 monk) since animations stop speeding up at that point. You could use HW or Shiradi for +5 more to hit, but you could also just use Elf AA + NiS for sneak die and spell power, and combo it with SD.

[anticlimax]

I've got a halfling monk I've been thinking of converting to a shuri build so this is a useful and interesting thread to me, even if the maxxed out build numbers are a bit far fetched for a gimpy alt lol.

I think the main selling feature is the use of shadow strike rather than the clunky hunts end fumbling.

Not sure how I feel about having to go all the way to T5 in HW though, might not be a must have on a fun alt for an IPS obsessed player like me.

Nice work Carpone for the comprehensive damage calcs, I look forward to seeing your bow calcs.

That said I've got a couple of bow related comments:

Hunt's End + Manyshot is far superior because all three shots are affected by HE.

In my experience hunts end rarely applies to more than one of the manyshots. I guess it could be lag from me playing from overseas but i do know it's not intended that it works on more than 1 of the shots 100% of the time; it's a side effect of the way hunts end was finally implemented.

Yes, and you can stop at BaB 25 (lvl 29 on pure 20 monk) since animations stop speeding up at that point. You could use HW or Shiradi for +5 more to hit, but you could also just use Elf AA + NiS for sneak die and spell power, and combo it with SD.

BaB does a lot more than just attack speed for bows. Rapid shot gives bows 1.5*BaB ranged power and Manyshot gives bows 1.5*BaB doubleshot.

[Brac]

So Carpones bow build was never actually the best ranged DPS build? Huh...

[Dulcimerist]

I've been meaning to create a shuriken build for years, and might finally do it.

The pure monk looks the most appealing to me, but I don't have access to Horizon Walker. Any suggestions for modifying that build without Horizon Walker?

[Tilomere]

Bow builds are burst dps utility, and a rogue/ranger HW/DWS one also has fair CC and trapping utility on top. Therefore they are balanced lower dps than builds with less utility, but that also makes them very well-balanced dungeon builds.

Or, maybe this is all a bug, and SSG really wants HW/DWS/Shiradi bow builds to be top dps to sell HW.

Consider one of the rogue SD ranged builds that rely on HW less since they can build AF stacks another way easier: Repeater (triple hit stacks AF) or Inquisitor (NHB stacks AF).

[Dulcimerist]

Bow builds are burst dps utility, and a rogue/ranger HW/DWS one also has fair CC and trapping utility on top. Therefore they are balanced lower dps than builds with less utility, but that also makes them very well-balanced dungeon builds.

Or, maybe this is all a bug, and SSG really wants HW/DWS/Shiradi bow builds to be top dps to sell HW.

Consider one of the rogue SD ranged builds that rely on HW less since they can build AF stacks another way easier: Repeater (triple hit stacks AF) or Inquisitor (NHB stacks AF).

Thanks. I got really lost on many of the acronyms, though.

My main ranged build is a warforged artificer inquisitor that uses non-repeaters.
I've just always wanted to make a shuriken build as an alt for fun. Planning to keep it in heroics to hop on when I need a toon in that level range to run with people.

[Carpone]

So Carpones bow build was never actually the best ranged DPS build? Huh...

It was prior to U51. The ED revamp shook things up considerably. Shuri is top dog now, and gets even better in U53 with the sexy new sickle. Here's a preview of U53's shuri build featuring Fatesinger.

The pure monk looks the most appealing to me, but I don't have access to Horizon Walker. Any suggestions for modifying that build without Horizon Walker?

There is no substitute. It's available next month for 495 DDO Points. Or buy Saltmarsh (also available next month for DDO Points) and get 400 Gatekeeper favor to unlock it, which is what I did.

[Tilomere]

Here's a preview of U53's shuri build featuring Fatesinger

Hmm, does that sickle have regular impulse? I didn't see that in your build. So this new build will reign as the king?

[Carpone]

Impulse 146 is on the trinket.

On Lam, Fatesinger shuri got the same kobold times as Shiradi. But Fatesinger offers 10% weapon damage + 25% spellpoint cost reduction + 10% uncapped Dodge to the rest of the group/raid, and Cut the Strings aligns perfectly with 10k Stars.

[Tilomere]

Impulse 146 is on the trinket.

On Lam, Fatesinger shuri got the same kobold times as Shiradi. But Fatesinger offers 10% weapon damage + 25% spellpoint cost reduction + 10% uncapped Dodge to the rest of the group/raid, and Cut the Strings aligns perfectly with 10k Stars.

Ahh, I really like that filigree setup. Lunar Magic, because spell and ranged power are both multipliers, but spell power is boosted higher than ranged power by filigree. I totally missed that.

[TFerguson]

Impulse 146 is on the trinket.

On Lam, Fatesinger shuri got the same kobold times as Shiradi. But Fatesinger offers 10% weapon damage + 25% spellpoint cost reduction + 10% uncapped Dodge to the rest of the group/raid, and Cut the Strings aligns perfectly with 10k Stars.

Just curious, what were the times?

[Carpone]

Just curious, what were the times?

6.9 seconds.

[Ulfo]

Ever try use Bound Elemental Ring of Acid?

[Carpone]

Ever try use Bound Elemental Ring of Acid?

Yes, it's excellent for ranged. If you're ever in a "safe" situation where you won't really need the 30 MRR cap from the VOD ring set, swap out Tumbleweed for it slotted with Insightful DEX 5 and Deadly 10.

[Ulfo]

Yes, it's excellent for ranged. If you're ever in a "safe" situation where you won't really need the 30 MRR cap from the VOD ring set, swap out Tumbleweed for it slotted with Insightful DEX 5 and Deadly 10.

Tnx!

Another question. I see, you use 4 filigree slot for raids +2 DEX filigrees. Of course, before U49 it was no-brain choice for any thrower build, but after... DS currently mean same thing, as RP - just DM (Damage multiplier), right? Therefore, 4 slot give +8 DEX and +16 PRR, it's mean +16 DS, +4 AC and +4 Reflex save, or DM = 1.16.
If change these filigree for double Manticore raid + double Manti RP (rare), DM = 1.4 and + 2 to Dmg.
If use Crackshot Negotiator double RP(rare) +double +1 Attack and Damage(rare), it gives DM = 1.3 , + 2 to Attack/Dmg and +4 PRR.
If use Dreadbringer double RP(rare) + double + 1 DEX (rare), it gives DM = 1.29 ,+10% Fortification Bypass and +4PRR, if add into 5 slot PRR(rare), it gives also +5PRR and +20% more Fortification bypass.

Any from these sets give better DM, Manticore - more then twice.

Am I wrong somewhere or not considering something, or are you just using a suboptimal set? 8)

[Carpone]

Possibly. It's a preview. I used kobold times on Lamannia as a gauge because I never considered Fatesinger as an option in my damage calculator, and I am in the middle of adding that.

[kaipan]

It's pretty obvious that Dark Imbuement using force spell power in addition to ranged power and doubleshot is not working as intended.

Wait, rn the Dark Imbuement dice get multiplied BOTH by ranged power AND force spell power? Lol? (and ofc by doubleshot but that would be WAI)

[Mindos]

Wait, rn the Dark Imbuement dice get multiplied BOTH by ranged power AND force spell power? Lol? (and ofc by doubleshot but that would be WAI)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD94dVu8lqQ

[TFerguson]

6.9 seconds.

Nice, best I got on an Archer was 9.

[kaipan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD94dVu8lqQ

Does that also work with melee power? Seems insane to me, and an obvious bug not wai.