U45 Preview 1: Balance: Knight of the Chalice Changes

[J-mann]

Actually, 5 Paladin spells did get reworked. Getting them added to the OP, but in the meantime:

Bless: Now scales with caster level - 1 debuff/buff level per 5 levels

Angelskin: Now grants +1 Sacred bonus to AC and +1 Sacred bonus to PRR per caster level.

Prayer: Now scales with caster level - 1 debuff/buff level per 5 levels

Stalwart Pact: Delete current functionality: This now grants you +1 Sacred bonus to Melee and Ranged power per caster level for its duration.

Also, we added 10% Doubleshot to Zeal

I will point out that DC's celestial champion is also a sacred bonus to melee/ranged power. It would be nice if paladins spells didnt clash with its destiny, we dont need more reason to push us into LD.

[Lynnabel]

I will point out that DC's celestial champion is also a sacred bonus to melee/ranged power. It would be nice if paladins spells didnt clash with its destiny, we dont need more reason to push us into LD.

Hmmm, you're right, it does. My ulterior motive for all of DDO across every axis is to encourage every player to run in Divine Crusader regardless of situation, so I'll think of something.

[Komradkillingmachine]

What a load of meh and whatevs...

These minor tweaks do not make me excited to switch to Paladin after it goes live.

[Gilga1]

Angelskin: Now grants +1 Sacred bonus to AC and +1 Sacred bonus to PRR per caster level.

Actually Angelskin gives a sacred bonus to PRR/MRR, not stacking with Durable Defense. WAI?

[SpardaX]

Actually Angelskin gives a sacred bonus to PRR/MRR, not stacking with Durable Defense. WAI?

He's right, it doesn't stack with the Sacred Defender's Defensive Stance. Also on top of that, Angelskin used to be a 30 second at level 1 + 6 second per additional caster level buff, and now appears to be changed to a 1 minute per level buff. Please keep this as is, as the more buffs that don't last 1 and a half to 2 minutes the better in my opinion. But also, the tooltip still says 1m 24 seconds, the old timer.

My vote is update the tool tip to match the duration XD but whichever way you adjust it, it's technically a bug until they match. So that's another one to add to the pile.

[Arlathen]

Actually Angelskin gives a sacred bonus to PRR/MRR, not stacking with Durable Defense. WAI?

Just to throw another viewpoint into the arena here, I don't mind this being Sacred. It makes the spell a useful alternative to Durable Defense, which has use when you want to run Paladin in Fury of the Wild and want to use Adrenaline strikes since Durable Defense prevents rage effects.

IMHO, and YMMV, if you want to play THF Paladin you need to give FOTW serious consideration as a main destiny to run, I find it elevates THF significantly.

[Palna]

First thoughts

Is there a reason you don't change Divine Might to be similar cost as Cleric/FvS version?

I think it's unnecessary to keep Divine Sacrifice and Ascendant Training in the Undead and Evil Outsider niche, if you need to limit them can you please change to be against Undead or Evil (if there are other similar abilities please change them too)?

Would it be possible to add some Melee/Ranged Power to the XX Deity Feats, giving some similarity to Weapon Focus/Specialization?

Please don't revert Stalwart Pact, imo I don't see how anyone can rank that over Holy Sword, Zeal, Cure Serious and Deathward. The proposed change is at least a contender for a spellslot. If you must keep the exsisting functionality, could you make a new spell with the proposed change?

The stacking issue with sacred boni has been mentioned, I don't see how you can try to help Paladins by making new things not stack with existing features…

Other then that I really like the change to favoured weapons, the roll-ins of abilities, the Knights Training line.

Must get on Lama to test I guess...

[SpardaX]

Is there a reason you don't change Divine Might to be similar cost as Cleric/FvS version?

I'd be careful with this one. The devs have actually said making the Cleric/FvS version so low was a mistake they don't want to ever repeat. Which is why the Int one in Harper and the Wis one in Falconry is also not in tier 1. They're never going to move the paladin one to Tier 1.

They were actually very strongly considering at one point moving the Cleric/FvS ones to Tier 2. They haven't yet, but if anything is going to change, that's what's going to happen. Not the paladin one going to tier 1.

So if you ask for this, be warned, one day it might just happen. (But not in the way you want)

[Palna]

I'd be careful with this one. The devs have actually said making the Cleric/FvS version so low was a mistake they don't want to ever repeat. Which is why the Int one in Harper and the Wis one in Falconry is also not in tier 1. They're never going to move the paladin one to Tier 1.

They were actually very strongly considering at one point moving the Cleric/FvS ones to Tier 2. They haven't yet, but if anything is going to change, that's what's going to happen. Not the paladin one going to tier 1.

So if you ask for this, be warned, one day it might just happen. (But not in the way you want)

I don't mind it being Tier2, but I would like it to be similar 1AP/rank cost.

[SerPounce]

It would be cool if dwarves could make daxes favored weapons somewhere in their tree.

[SerPounce]

I'd be careful with this one. The devs have actually said making the Cleric/FvS version so low was a mistake they don't want to ever repeat. Which is why the Int one in Harper and the Wis one in Falconry is also not in tier 1. They're never going to move the paladin one to Tier 1.

They were actually very strongly considering at one point moving the Cleric/FvS ones to Tier 2. They haven't yet, but if anything is going to change, that's what's going to happen. Not the paladin one going to tier 1.

So if you ask for this, be warned, one day it might just happen. (But not in the way you want)

I don't care much on t1 vs. t2, but all trances should cost the same number of action points. They are very powerful so I could see a case for making them all 2 AP/rank, but the inconsistency is bad.

[Jerevth]

Empowered Smite: Removed, rolled into Exalted Smite

Replaced With: Improved Turning: You gain +1/2/3 use of Turn Undead per rest. You also count as 1/2/3 level higher when turning undead and add 2/4/6 to the number of hit dice turned. Finally, your Turn Undead ability now also deals 6d6/12d6/18d6 light damage to nearby undead. Scales with 200% Melee Power.

If a Paladin is built for ranged, relying on melee power for their damage scaling here will make this less than stellar. Can it be made to select the higher of the two instead?

[Khalibano]

Angelskin: Now grants +1 Sacred bonus to AC and +1 Sacred bonus to PRR per caster level.

Stalwart Pact: Delete current functionality: This now grants you +1 Sacred bonus to Melee and Ranged power per caster level for its duration.

Very glad to hear pally spells will receive a buff I really like how bless and prayer will scale up, and the addition of doubleshot to Zeal.

I just wanted to make some suggestions:

- Angelskin is proposed to give a sacred bonus to AC and PRR. The Sacred defender tree already grants that bonus type to both abilities, so I am assuming they will not stack, which would make this spell far less desirable. Could it grant a different bonus type, so it stacks with the enhancement tree?

- Stalwart pact is proposed to give a sacred bonus to melee and ranged power. This would not stack with either the new 'Blessed Purpose' in the re-vamped KotC tree and neither with Divine Crusader's 'Celestial Champion (since both are typed 'sacred'). Assuming dps pallies will use the new version of the spell + KotC tree + Divine Crusader (all dps oriented), they would be getting 3x the same type of bonus (non-stackable). Could we have each of these abilities/spell grant a different bonus type, so they all stack?

Thanks for considering these suggestions

[GoldyGopher]

Was the current functionality any good? I honestly wasn't aware players were fond of this spell. I absolutely don't mind another rework - what would you like the spell to do?

Stalwart Pact was a decent spell when it was first released, however it is now showing its age, as well as its position in the game.
Many Paladins currently are multi-class and with both Holy Sword and Zeal, taking an under performing spell in their place is a difficult prospect.

I believe Divine Favor is a far better option for your "+1 Sacred bonus to melee and Ranged power per stack of Religious Lore"

As for Stalwart Pack - +5 Temporary Hit Points per caster level and 5% Damage Absorption if the Characters Hit Points are less than 50% makes more sense.

[rabidfox]

I love the changes to favored weapons and the addition of new ones. Any chance we'll see some ways to get throwing weapons as favored weapons too?

[krimsonrane]

We're going to need a heart of wood for sure.
Also, the stun effect from censure is being replaced by dazed? That's going to bring dps down a lot.

[janave]

Healing amplification t4, t5 does not seem to work, at least do not display on the charsheet.

[Mohagi]

Holy Retribution goes from a 5W 3 X attack cleave with a 6 second cooldown using 1 turn undead too what is listed here seems like a nerf to me (30 seconds cooldown!?).
The current live version but with the added DC scaling and hitpoint buff would surely be way better. Dont be afraid to add resource management too this please.
At least we still have Confront any Foe from DC for a thf twist (and it procs Sanctified Fervor 100% of the time unlike smite)

Please explain Censure Demons and Censure Outsiders, do we still get the 3 second stun on vorpal?

Can we maybe buff Exalted Smite, 5 mp seems a little too little


I played a pure swf kotc pala in Divine Crusader a few months back for laughs/fun in our static r10 group. He was godly equipped and has racial completionist + a lot of other pl's
and 100+ reaper points at the time. From my experience with that i will say that the changes listed here doesnt seem to address the issue's completely but i will surely give it another go

[droid327]

It would be cool if dwarves could make daxes favored weapons somewhere in their tree.

Check again, they can. Third tier of Daxe Training.

[janave]

Holy Retribution Ranged: does not recharge a smite evil.