U39 Preview 1: Crystal Cove Loot Revamp

[SirValentine]

You can still use the one you have, and even make more

Fair enough. I withdraw all comments.

[shinsirhc]

Will there be a new augment or jewel in Crystal Cove?

It would be nice to have another source of Sentient jewel aside from the anniversary event that only happens once a year for those f2p player that doesn't have Ravenloft or the new packs.

[sephiroth1084]

Adding more and more to items is an arms race that negatively impacts our ability to design enticing items that aren't just ever increasing piles of attributes that players have multiple copies of already.

It's kind of hard to take your "arms race" concern seriously when every update inflates stats on items in such a way as to invalidate most of the loot from the previous updates. Did we need +20 enhancement to a stat in Ravenloft? Did filigrees need to give us additional ability score bonuses?

What does it matter whether an item has 4 effects or 6? The issue isn't that items have too many effects on them, it's what those effects are, and most loot for a while has been MOAR BONUSES!?

[Lynnabel]

I appreciate the tons of feedback in this thread! Truth be told, I thought you guys would be more interested in the U39 stuff than CC, but hey, live and learn I'll be sorting through U39 item feedback after I post this, so if you've got something to chip in for that thread, please do so

Firstly, there are two new items in CC to round out the weapons - a Quarterstaff and a driftwood Dagger. Details on those TBD, but you are definitely right, the limited item suite is a bit weird. CC caters to Swashbucklers and shortsword users and... that's kinda it. Adding a Quarterstaff and Dagger is a good way of broadening it out a bit. We need more Quarterstaves in all the levels. Plus, everyone likes daggers.

And now, to the part I'm sure you're excited for, I'm back with version 4... 5? _{I've lost count please send help} of the Spyglass. I'm sure I'm butchering the formatting here, but here's the dirty deets:

Treasure Hunter's Spyglass version 12 and a half: Trinket Slot
Minimum Level:4/8/12/16/20/24/28

• Detect Secret Doors Clicky/Detect Secret Doors Clicky/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing
• Exceptional Int Skills +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• EDIT: Exceptional Wis Skills +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Intelligence +3/+5/+6/+8/Insightful +4/Insightful +5/Insightful +8
• Green Augment Slot

True Seeing got dropped down a level to 12. Insightful Int is back in epic levels. The rest of the item is now what it was before in broad design - a passive trinket meant to help trappers do what they do.

Am I closer to what you want? Further away? Should I go ahead and make that a secondary trinket? Please, let me know

[ThomasHunter]

I appreciate the tons of feedback in this thread! Truth be told, I thought you guys would be more interested in the U39 stuff than CC, but hey, live and learn I'll be sorting through U39 item feedback after I post this, so if you've got something to chip in for that thread, please do so

Firstly, there are two new items in CC to round out the weapons - a Quarterstaff and a driftwood Dagger. Details on those TBD, but you are definitely right, the limited item suite is a bit weird. CC caters to Swashbucklers and shortsword users and... that's kinda it. Adding a Quarterstaff and Dagger is a good way of broadening it out a bit. We need more Quarterstaves in all the levels. Plus, everyone likes daggers.

And now, to the part I'm sure you're excited for, I'm back with version 4... 5? _{I've lost count please send help} of the Spyglass. I'm sure I'm butchering the formatting here, but here's the dirty deets:

Treasure Hunter's Spyglass version 12 and a half: Trinket Slot
Minimum Level:4/8/12/16/20/24/28

• Detect Secret Doors Clicky/Detect Secret Doors Clicky/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing
• Exceptional Int Skills +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Exceptional Dex Skills +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Intelligence +3/+5/+6/+8/Insightful +4/Insightful +5/Insightful +8
• Green Augment Slot

True Seeing got dropped down a level to 12. Insightful Int is back in epic levels. The rest of the item is now what it was before in broad design - a passive trinket meant to help trappers do what they do.

Am I closer to what you want? Further away? Should I go ahead and make that a secondary trinket? Please, let me know

Should it have Int skills and Wisdom skills instead of the Dexterity skills? That way Spot gets help which was on the original. Just a thought. Thanks!

[cru121]

Firstly, there are two new items in CC to round out the weapons - a Quarterstaff and a driftwood Dagger.

Good luck designing a quarterstaff. It'll probably completely overshadow Ratkiller and the new oozy greatclub.

[Dreppo]

Am I closer to what you want? Further away? Should I go ahead and make that a secondary trinket? Please, let me know

I like that proposed design very much. It complements an existing trapping gearset. It could be swapped in for traps that are particularly tough / if you are underlevel for the quest. I'm also thinking you could wear this all the time (upgrading every 4 levels) as a means of stretching out the heroic Keylock Ring to the entire heroic level range.

[Requiro]

I appreciate the tons of feedback in this thread! Truth be told, I thought you guys would be more interested in the U39 stuff than CC, but hey, live and learn I'll be sorting through U39 item feedback after I post this, so if you've got something to chip in for that thread, please do so

Firstly, there are two new items in CC to round out the weapons - a Quarterstaff and a driftwood Dagger. Details on those TBD, but you are definitely right, the limited item suite is a bit weird. CC caters to Swashbucklers and shortsword users and... that's kinda it. Adding a Quarterstaff and Dagger is a good way of broadening it out a bit. We need more Quarterstaves in all the levels. Plus, everyone likes daggers.

And now, to the part I'm sure you're excited for, I'm back with version 4... 5? _{I've lost count please send help} of the Spyglass. I'm sure I'm butchering the formatting here, but here's the dirty deets:

Treasure Hunter's Spyglass version 12 and a half: Trinket Slot
Minimum Level:4/8/12/16/20/24/28

• Detect Secret Doors Clicky/Detect Secret Doors Clicky/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing
• Exceptional Int Skills +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Exceptional Dex Skills +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Intelligence +3/+5/+6/+8/Insightful +4/Insightful +5/Insightful +8
• Green Augment Slot

True Seeing got dropped down a level to 12. Insightful Int is back in epic levels. The rest of the item is now what it was before in broad design - a passive trinket meant to help trappers do what they do.

Am I closer to what you want? Further away? Should I go ahead and make that a secondary trinket? Please, let me know

New Spyglass looks quite good. Different then old one, but good. I will probably farm it, but also keep old one.

New Quarterstaves? Good luck. Without 8 properties it will always be less usefull then 2x one handed weapons.

[Arch-Necromancer]

Should it have Int skills and Wisdom skills instead of the Dexterity skills? That way Spot gets help which was on the original. Just a thought. Thanks!

I agree. Dexterity skills help open lock and stealth, and this spyglass is about detecting and trapping, so it should have spot (wisdom skills).

[elvesunited]

I appreciate the tons of feedback in this thread! Truth be told, I thought you guys would be more interested in the U39 stuff than CC, but hey, live and learn I'll be sorting through U39 item feedback after I post this, so if you've got something to chip in for that thread, please do so

Firstly, there are two new items in CC to round out the weapons - a Quarterstaff and a driftwood Dagger. Details on those TBD, but you are definitely right, the limited item suite is a bit weird. CC caters to Swashbucklers and shortsword users and... that's kinda it. Adding a Quarterstaff and Dagger is a good way of broadening it out a bit. We need more Quarterstaves in all the levels. Plus, everyone likes daggers.

And now, to the part I'm sure you're excited for, I'm back with version 4... 5? _{I've lost count please send help} of the Spyglass. I'm sure I'm butchering the formatting here, but here's the dirty deets:

Treasure Hunter's Spyglass version 12 and a half: Trinket Slot
Minimum Level:4/8/12/16/20/24/28

• Detect Secret Doors Clicky/Detect Secret Doors Clicky/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing
• Exceptional Int Skills +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Exceptional Dex Skills +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Intelligence +3/+5/+6/+8/Insightful +4/Insightful +5/Insightful +8
• Green Augment Slot

True Seeing got dropped down a level to 12. Insightful Int is back in epic levels. The rest of the item is now what it was before in broad design - a passive trinket meant to help trappers do what they do.

Am I closer to what you want? Further away? Should I go ahead and make that a secondary trinket? Please, let me know

Spot! That's the skill I need most of all! That's why I made the effort to get my spyglasses. And its why unless the new spyglasses have comparable spot bonuses I won't upgrade them.

Got a trap? swap to your disarm gloves. disarm the trap, swap back to adventure gear.
Got a lock? Swap to your open locks bracers, open the lock. swap back to adventure gear.
Search time? Swap to your to your search goggles. search. swap back to adventure gear.

But Spot is the wisdom based passive trap warning skill. You need that skill high constantly to spot traps. Especially in dungeons where they are randomized. By taking out spot completely you've turned the compass into a secondary swap item.

Swap to thief skill item. Swap to thief stat skill item. ( the spyglass ). Do your thief skill. Swap back to adventure gear.

[IsFrosty99]

The new spyglass looks really good, but I think that Exceptional Wisdom Skills will be a lot better for the Trinket

[Lynnabel]

So, to be clear, you guys would prefer Wisdom Skills to Dex Skills? I know I'm all about listening to feedback here, but is Spot actually more important than Open Lock to you guys? I've never used this item, so please convince me one way or the other!

[Yamani]

So, to be clear, you guys would prefer Wisdom Skills to Dex Skills? I know I'm all about listening to feedback here, but is Spot actually more important than Open Lock to you guys? I've never used this item, so please convince me one way or the other!

I never use spot, I dont put points into it at all. Thats for beginners and role players! :P

Besides the barbarian tends to find the trap before spot would.

[sephiroth1084]

I appreciate the tons of feedback in this thread! Truth be told, I thought you guys would be more interested in the U39 stuff than CC, but hey, live and learn I'll be sorting through U39 item feedback after I post this, so if you've got something to chip in for that thread, please do so

Firstly, there are two new items in CC to round out the weapons - a Quarterstaff and a driftwood Dagger. Details on those TBD, but you are definitely right, the limited item suite is a bit weird. CC caters to Swashbucklers and shortsword users and... that's kinda it. Adding a Quarterstaff and Dagger is a good way of broadening it out a bit. We need more Quarterstaves in all the levels. Plus, everyone likes daggers.

And now, to the part I'm sure you're excited for, I'm back with version 4... 5? _{I've lost count please send help} of the Spyglass. I'm sure I'm butchering the formatting here, but here's the dirty deets:

Treasure Hunter's Spyglass version 12 and a half: Trinket Slot
Minimum Level:4/8/12/16/20/24/28

• Detect Secret Doors Clicky/Detect Secret Doors Clicky/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing
• Exceptional Int Skills +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Exceptional Dex Skills +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Intelligence +3/+5/+6/+8/Insightful +4/Insightful +5/Insightful +8
• Green Augment Slot

True Seeing got dropped down a level to 12. Insightful Int is back in epic levels. The rest of the item is now what it was before in broad design - a passive trinket meant to help trappers do what they do.

Am I closer to what you want? Further away? Should I go ahead and make that a secondary trinket? Please, let me know

As others have already said: Wis skills, not Dex skills.

but to the point I was making earlier, does this need to grow to a +9 exceptional bonus? The top for the rest of the game is +6. Is there a reason to not only inflate that cap, but to jump by 3 points?

Further, unique effects will provide greater staying power for the item. What if it increased the distance at which the character notices a trap (and can search for it)? Maybe it could also alert you to nearby chests and collectibles?

[sephiroth1084]

So, to be clear, you guys would prefer Wisdom Skills to Dex Skills? I know I'm all about listening to feedback here, but is Spot actually more important than Open Lock to you guys? I've never used this item, so please convince me one way or the other!

There's no reason to wear something to help Open Locks full time. Some people like these consolidation items so they have to carry less and swap gear less often, but it's not a real benefit otherwise. Now, Dex skills on a worn item has value for Balance, Hide, and Move Silently, but that's not what this item is about.

Further, as much as Int is a more useful stat to this type of character overall, Wis is what the item is about. And while many players eschew Spot entirely, either because they have trap locations memorized or simply rely on setting them off to find them, for the people who are going to care about such an item in the first place, Wis skills are the more relevant.

[xveganrox]

Treasure Hunter's Spyglass version 12 and a half: Trinket Slot
Minimum Level:4/8/12/16/20/24/28

• Detect Secret Doors Clicky/Detect Secret Doors Clicky/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing
• Exceptional Int Skills +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Exceptional Dex Skills +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Intelligence +3/+5/+6/+8/Insightful +4/Insightful +5/Insightful +8
• Green Augment Slot

True Seeing got dropped down a level to 12. Insightful Int is back in epic levels. The rest of the item is now what it was before in broad design - a passive trinket meant to help trappers do what they do.

Am I closer to what you want? Further away? Should I go ahead and make that a secondary trinket? Please, let me know

I'd make one of those. I think wis skills would be a better choice though. I've always seen Crystal Cove loot as a chance for newer players or players with limited content to score some good to great items for leveling, and I think wis would definitely benefit newer players more than dex. Also lock DCs are usually very low and you get a +7 from thieves tools and a d20 added, and there's no penalty for failure... So yeah, I don't think anyone cares about Open Lock :P

As others have already said: Wis skills, not Dex skills.

but to the point I was making earlier, does this need to grow to a +9 exceptional bonus? The top for the rest of the game is +6. Is there a reason to not only inflate that cap, but to jump by 3 points?

Agree about the wisdom thing as well. There are items with +10 exceptional XXX skills at ML29 though, this gets +9 at ML28... Seems about right. Besides, the only boost that affects anything other than trap switch-ins is the Spellcraft boost, which is tiny enough that I doubt anyone is going to wear this for DPS casting.

Further, unique effects will provide greater staying power for the item. What if it increased the distance at which the character notices a trap (and can search for it)? Maybe it could also alert you to nearby chests and collectibles?

That would be very cool -- an effect like that is actually already in the game, Nothing is Hidden/Watchful Eye. It's in multiple enhancement trees and available as a feat at 27. It's kind of buggy sometimes, requires spot+search, and definitely isn't worth a feat slot, but it's nice for convenience.. would love to see it on the maxed level version of this.

[Kenaustin]

I appreciate the tons of feedback in this thread! Truth be told, I thought you guys would be more interested in the U39 stuff than CC, but hey, live and learn I'll be sorting through U39 item feedback after I post this, so if you've got something to chip in for that thread, please do so

Firstly, there are two new items in CC to round out the weapons - a Quarterstaff and a driftwood Dagger. Details on those TBD, but you are definitely right, the limited item suite is a bit weird. CC caters to Swashbucklers and shortsword users and... that's kinda it. Adding a Quarterstaff and Dagger is a good way of broadening it out a bit. We need more Quarterstaves in all the levels. Plus, everyone likes daggers.

And now, to the part I'm sure you're excited for, I'm back with version 4... 5? _{I've lost count please send help} of the Spyglass. I'm sure I'm butchering the formatting here, but here's the dirty deets:

Treasure Hunter's Spyglass version 12 and a half: Trinket Slot
Minimum Level:4/8/12/16/20/24/28

• Detect Secret Doors Clicky/Detect Secret Doors Clicky/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing
• Exceptional Int Skills +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Exceptional Dex Skills +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Intelligence +3/+5/+6/+8/Insightful +4/Insightful +5/Insightful +8
• Green Augment Slot

True Seeing got dropped down a level to 12. Insightful Int is back in epic levels. The rest of the item is now what it was before in broad design - a passive trinket meant to help trappers do what they do.

Am I closer to what you want? Further away? Should I go ahead and make that a secondary trinket? Please, let me know

The proposed version above, is in my opinion an excellent consolidation item, which I would actively farm for as it would benefit 9 potential skills:

Intelligence - Disable Device, Repair, Search, Spellcraft
Dexterity - Balance, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, Tumble.

Whereas, adding Exceptional Wisdom Skills instead of Exceptional Dexterity Skills would reduce it's utility somewhat, down to a total of 7 potential skills, as Wisdom only provides a benefit to Listen, Spot and Heal.

I would much prefer greater utility...

[Lynnabel]

Fine, fine, you guys have made your point. Wis skills, not dex skills :P

[sephiroth1084]

Oh, and this needs to be better differentiated from the Manual of Stealthy Pilfering, which is:

• Good Luck
• Dex skills
• Int skills
• Open Lock
• Disable Device
• Spot
• UMD

[ThomasHunter]

Fine, fine, you guys have made your point. Wis skills, not dex skills :P

Thanks for considering the change. Shoot, I've been playing for roughly 9 years, and I still use Spot items as I simply don't know where all the traps are. Along with that, Wisdom is more of a dump on any trapper that I have - which probably isn't a good idea.

Also, how about that Displacement spell of the War Soul tree to go along with the Blur spell?

Overall, I am pretty excited about this update. Shoot, I just hope that I can find a group to farm CC with as my guild doesn't tend to do CC.

Finally, are you now "Official Long Term Employee" Lynnabel? That would be awesome to see you in the forums in the fall and winter!!!