new gold dice roll item lesser elixir of discovery

[Qhualor]

so many assumptions in this thread...
for starters those discovery pot so far are only metioned as a gold dice rewards, so beside a VIP tempting their chance WEEKLY, it would every day cost 12/15 shard to attempt a roll with a clearly high possibility of not getting one anyway. Also it is not mentioned how the pot would work, It might very well work like mimic bait, costing you 1 pot every time. but lets assume it doesn't, ya still need to use shard again to reroll a chests, and raid chests cannot be re-rolled. not only that, but as with anything luck related, even with all those factor combined ya still might not get the item you specifically want, let alone one at all.

if someone is willing to spend tens of hundreds of dollaroos for a daily dice random roll (91-96 bracket it seems) to get a slight boost to a chest random loot roll then in the name of the host I bless them for literally throwing money away to the Wind to fund this game further.
To me it might still be more cost-efficient to simply buy raid timers and run it 20 times or accumulated the needed runes to trade for exactly what you want rather that trying to stock up on discovery pots.

I mean, there is such a thing as maths... 5% chances to get to get that bracket, then maybe 20-50% chances on that 5% to be an actual loot boost and not a tome or smthing. for 15 shard (assuming you farming it). lets be generous and assume a whooping 2,5% chances, meanign on average it would cost ya 600 shards to get one, now lets say a generous quest with a 20% named loot chances, 4 items so 5% chance of getting the exact one you want. now boost it with the better version of 10%, 15% chances of getting it on pull. lets pretend its a timed buss, ya would on average need to reroll 6 times to get near 100% CHANCES to get one (still no guarantee) lets add only 50 shard for rerolls, 650 shards for a regular quest item (not a jibber) in the region of 3k ddo point so about 35$ and thats still assuming a timed buff. if not that 600 shard for 6 rolls become 6x600 shards, 3600 shards, 200$

simply using AS directly on that 5% chance would be say 15 shard x 15 rerolls (no cost for opening the chests, and with ransack ya might spread your runs on several days) for 225 shards a near 100% CHANCE for about 20$

Raids make it even worse, ya can forget re-rolls or timed buff. at best with a raid timer maybe get 2 loot in? but without that make it 10% chances to drop a named, so 1% chances to get the exact one you need. boost it to 11% because you are Lucky and got mostly 10% boosts, ya would need 9x600 shards on average to get a near 100% CHANCE of getting that item you need. 5400 shards wasted via rolls to get 1 piece of raid gear... a pack of 2000 AS cost 10k TP, 27k TP for 5,4k Worth of Astra shards for about 500$, if ya the impatient sort a can add 8 raid timer bypasses to get those 9 runs in a row, what those again 195 points? make that about 25$ on top. now go run the raid 9 times for 525$

or ya know run it around 20 times with timers lets make that 15 timers, gotta sleep 3k points, 35$.

now, please tell me again how this is nothing else but at best a planets are aligned kind of Lucky strike for most sane players, and at worst an exponentially expensier way to get items that simply using normal chest re-rolls/grouping/raid bypasses? if someone is willing to part with his money for that let me bow in respect.

there are a lot of players that sit around and spend their shards on DD. early on after DD came out, a lot of players were saying that they do this because earning shards in the game was easy. if you already have a lot of shards and you can earn a lot through the game, than its not costing them hundreds of dollars.

[blerkington]

... Making us wait around for a random number generator is always a bad idea ...

Nah, it's a gold mine because plenty of people don't make good decisions about spending on games of chance.

Even your more intelligent and self-controlled customers don't have the information to make informed decisions about whether or not to use it, let alone those who are already at a disadvantage when it comes to making these decisions like children, the stupid and the unwell. As a special bonus it may even encourage addictive spending patterns for some of them. Hooray for progress!

In my view this is much more unprincipled than selling gear in the store; as distasteful as that would be, at least it would a transaction that has a fixed price associated with it. Under a lottery system you're not getting anything for your money apart from a chance. You may never get the item you want, but you can keep paying for a chance at it all the same, with the odds of the game hidden from view.

And God only knows what it means behind the scenes for our chances of getting this loot otherwise; will drop rates remain the same and will loot tables become diluted by worthless named items that reduce our chance of getting more desirable ones? All those people salivating at the chance of finally getting a Jibbers Blade or a Mysterious Bauble might want to make room in their backpacks for storing a lot of Drowned Priest's Torches and Mad Lutes first.

SSG stuck their toes in the water on this with chest rerolls and that wasn't great. But this new thing works with raid loot and it can't be bought with astral shards, a currency that it's possible to accumulate in game from daily dice rolls, the monster manual, and trading on the ASAH. If this item becomes available in the store, it marks a major and bad change in the approach to monetisation in the game.

I only hope it's poor judgement or a lack of imagination that brings stuff like this to our game rather than financial desperation. One of DDO's best points was that it had largely resisted the worst monetisation practices other games use, but now here they are joining everyone else in a race to the bottom of the pile.

Thanks.

[Dragavon]

there are a lot of players that sit around and spend their shards on DD. early on after DD came out, a lot of players were saying that they do this because earning shards in the game was easy. if you already have a lot of shards and you can earn a lot through the game, than its not costing them hundreds of dollars.

The point here that you do not seem to understand is that it is not a lot of astral shards available through just playing the game. Noone can earn a lot of shards just by playing.

What people do is that they farm ingredients and items that are sought after and sell them on the shard exchange. A friend of mine made over 20k shards by selling slavers materials when that pack was new. But whoever bought his materials would have bought those shards from SSG. With real money.

[Wizza]

Corrupt a wish Turbine style:

"I heard you guys complain about low drop rates..."

[Morroiel]

Anyone who doesnt see the problem with this doesnt remember the following:

When turbine initially releases F2P/ddostore they promised raid loot or proxies for raid loot (rerolls, increased drop rates, additional ticks to 20th completion, etc) would never be available in the store.

Then after MOTU they added +3/+4 tomes to the store quoting that it was no longer raid loot because they also made it so you could get them in a quest. Some time after this people started to notice that tomes didnt drop like they used to. Queue continued trend for 5ish years and almost ANYBODY with the highest tomes (N or N-1, where N is the highest number sold in store) got them from the store. Point of information they also took tome drops off 20th lists for future raid releases. Notice how before they monetized it, people used to farm raids for 20th completions just to get tomes. It built a healthy endgame community. but we cant have that as it would cut into ssg's bottomline.

Then they added raid bypasses and when they became popular/abundant, we had raids like Mark of Death come out with the worst drop rates in the history of ddo. Normal/hard/elite it didnt matter the drop rates compared to other raids were significantly nerfed. As far as Im aware they never admitted it but it was to expire the duped timers. Then when doj releases theyd hope to see sales back up but they didnt, so then they came up with legendary bypass timers.

I think it is painfully obvious now that SSG does not care about this game anymore. They care about one thing and one thing only: their bottomline. They believe stealth would hurt that so it doesnt get fixed. They believe going back on their promise when free to pay launched will kncrease their cash flow so it happens.

It is times like these that I wish SSG wasnt some noname company. Because at least then bad pr would mean something. Instead the players have one move: stop playing or at least stop paying for any service. I know thats what I'll be doing and actively encouraging my friends and fellow players to do.

[Qhualor]

The point here that you do not seem to understand is that it is not a lot of astral shards available through just playing the game. Noone can earn a lot of shards just by playing.

What people do is that they farm ingredients and items that are sought after and sell them on the shard exchange. A friend of mine made over 20k shards by selling slavers materials when that pack was new. But whoever bought his materials would have bought those shards from SSG. With real money.

I understand perfectly well, but you seem to also understand that selling stuff on the P2WAH you can make a lot of shards. you don't need to buy a lot of shards to start earning them from selling stuff. it may take a little time this way, but it is certainly possible and how some said they started out. you can also get shards from MM. the P2WAH has been around for a long time now so those that do participate in it either already have a lot of shards built up or they know how to build it up if they wanted to.

[silinteresting]

do not add this item to the ddo store it will be a blatant cash grab on your part, hey better yet just up the drop rate of named items.

you do understand that ssg is a business dont you ?. you do understand that to run a business you have to
make money from said business ?. if said business does not make enough money you then understand that
it goes under?. also if this kinda thing makes enough money then maybe they get to expand a small bit of
said business.

i find it amazing that everytime a new thing comes in people moan about it, omg how can they do this, why
do they keep trying to get me to spend money. it simple really if you like what there offering you can buy it
and help them turn a profit or you can not buy it.

your friend sil

[korgzz_bloodaxe]

When turbine initially releases F2P/ddostore they promised raid loot or proxies for raid loot (rerolls, increased drop rates, additional ticks to 20th completion, etc) would never be available in the store.
...
They believe going back on their promise when free to pay launched will kncrease their cash flow so it happens.

Let me get this straight. You are holding SSG to a promise a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT company made about TEN YEARS ago? Do you not realise how stupid that is?

Guess what? Things change. Life moves on. If they didn't have all the new loot and new content that they have added over the last 10 years the game would have long ago gone bust.

[silinteresting]

The point here that you do not seem to understand is that it is not a lot of astral shards available through just playing the game. Noone can earn a lot of shards just by playing.

excuse me but what you have written above is a lie, just by playing the game we as players earn
tp points and said tp points can be spent in the store on buying shards, therefore just by playing
the game any person can have shards.

glad i could help.

your friend sil

[silinteresting]

i would like to add to my last post where i replied to Dragavon.

i have just noticed the end part i quoted that you said a lot of shards.

in the last month i have done 3 racial lives 1-30, each life i earned roughly 3500 favour.
if we convert that to tp points thats 875 each life. if we convert the 2625 tp in the store
to astral shards it roughly 500 shards as 500 shards cost 2795 points. so over a year of
just playing the game i as a player could earn a posible 6000 shards plus.

so is this not a lot of shards from just playing the game ?.

your friend sil

[Gabrael]

i would like to add to my last post where i replied to Dragavon.

i have just noticed the end part i quoted that you said a lot of shards.

in the last month i have done 3 racial lives 1-30, each life i earned roughly 3500 favour.
if we convert that to tp points thats 875 each life. if we convert the 2625 tp in the store
to astral shards it roughly 500 shards as 500 shards cost 2795 points. so over a year of
just playing the game i as a player could earn a posible 6000 shards plus.

so is this not a lot of shards from just playing the game ?.

your friend sil

so your're saying a heavy player like yourself would be willing to sacrifice 1 years Worth of dedicated playing to roll 6k worth of shards that, in case of a raid item would amount to aproximately around 100% chance to get the item you want, and thats with my very generous figures. I'll stick to raid timer bypasses, or simply run the raid 20 times, its still gonna be faster.

[Gabrael]

I mean, you could consider it a lot of shards, but relatively speaking it aint that much considering the sacrifices.

[changelingamuck]

I can live with these Elixirs of Discovery being a gold roll reward.

It's going to be crossing a line for me if they put them into the DDO Store though.

[silinteresting]

so your're saying a heavy player like yourself would be willing to sacrifice 1 years Worth of dedicated playing to roll 6k worth of shards that, in case of a raid item would amount to aproximately around 100% chance to get the item you want, and thats with my very generous figures. I'll stick to raid timer bypasses, or simply run the raid 20 times, its still gonna be faster.

no im not saying that i would do this, what i am doing is proving to Dragavon that a person could earn a lot of shards
from doing nothing else but running content or as they said just playing the game.

your friend sil

[Isolani]

I would want to know how they work before I would even consider buying these if they were in the store. Does it add 5% drop chance...for instance, a chest with 1% drop chance for named loot becomes 6%. That is a significant increase.

If it increases drop chances by a percentage of a percentage, then it would be complete rubbish. Increasing a 1% drop chance by 5%, would be 1.05% drop chance in that case...completely worthless.

Since we don't even know what drop rates are, how would we even know these work at all?

Can I be the first to say that a permanent, lesser 5% buff should be included with VIP =P

[SuperNiCd]

This doesn't seem worth getting the pitch forks out over. Seems like they're trying to increase the value proposition of their subscription product. I think that's a good thing, and something people have asked for. I think this would be a nice/fun pull for a weekly VIP roll. Personally I wouldn't put a bazillion coins into the slot machine to try to pull one but if someone wants to, I say let them. Doesn't hurt me.

[Applefritter]

Just reiterating a concern others in the thread have already mentioned: The likelyhood that, in time, these named drop increases will be sold in the DDO store, followed by a reduction in general named drop rates to compensate and drive people to the cash shop. This seems to be an irresistible cash grab for game studios so I am worried the devs will follow the same path many others have. I consistently quit games when it becomes apparent that the gameplay elements are being designed to let the player *almost* have fun, "if only they'd purchase this one item, then it really would be fun!". Insane grind is not fun. The drop rates are already somewhat painful as I don't sink shards into chest rerolls, but are tolerable...kinda.

If the devs manage to resist temptation and do not follow this p2w path; good on them, they succeeded where nearly all others have failed. If they do, I hope they choke on their greed and the game dies, but I sure won't wait around to see it.

[slarden]

3 rerolls already increases your chance by 300%.

I am assuming most people using the elixir will also be rerolling so now we are talking about about 360% increased chance vs. 300%.

I can't wait to see the thread about the guy quitting because customer service won't answer his ticket about the chest being broken - because he still didn't get his ring of spell storing parts even with re-rolls and elixirs.

As for using the elixir - probably very situationally, but ironically not on the things with the super rare drops like sos parts or a hat with a +2 reaper bonus because those are lottery drops and you can spend a fortune and still not get it.

[HungarianRhapsody]

again with the assumptions they gonna modify loot chances, as if it was a law of physics, if the devs implement any design that help paying customers get an item easier (and believe me this is manytime fold more useless as a mechanic for that than daily chest re-rolls and raid timer) that they have to ALSO reduce the chances for everyone else, for... acommodating new pots? how does that work? you can only loot x amount of gear in the game per day? kinda remind me of when people keep saying drop chances goes down after a while despite devs repeteadly saying they don't lower loot tables.

Adding an item that gives SSG a direct financial incentive to reduce the raid loot chances is a bad idea. Turbine/SSG has added "features" to.the game to take advantage of their pay-to-win* items in the past. It would be silly to assume they won't do it again.


It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to recognize that Turbine/SSG is making most of their money from whales just like every other MMO that contains microtransactions. And that the things that whales purchase are annoyances that get added to the game specifically to give the whales something to bypass. That's the whole microtransaction model.


*By pay-to-win, I'm referring to the .ore nuanced idea of paying to get the results (loot or the benefits that come from XP) while bypassing content instead of playing that content. Turbine/SSG added more grind repeatedly after they added XP potions and XP boxes.

[Applefritter]

Guess what? Things change. Life moves on. If they didn't have all the new loot and new content that they have added over the last 10 years the game would have long ago gone bust.

They sure do, I don't know anyone who would contend that. But the point is moot - "new loot and new content" does not preclude "rerolls, increased drop rates, additional ticks to 20th completion, etc" available in the store. The more p2w DDO becomes, the more it directly competes with the sea of freemium games available. Frankly many game mechanics in DDO are quite dated and I'm not sure why, if given comparable levels of grindy wallet shaking, many wouldn't move to other newer games. It's not at comparable levels yet, but the concession made when going FTP and the danger of the concession now indicate things are moving in that direction.

Things can change, and fairly easily for the worse.