Cannith Crafting Discussion

[Mithis]

This looks to be pointed in the right direction.

Some thoughts:
1. I do not mind at all that the max level is capped. It keeps RG loot relevant.
2. Please keep the essences/ingredients limited to a max of (3).
3. Please severely limited or completely eliminate special ingredients from the process. Or at the very least consider what quests are actually run and stay away from ingredients found in dead quests.
4. Deconstruction has to be made much more convenient. Some options to consider:
a. Anytime, anywhere: I know this is likely the most difficult to pull off but it sure would be nice
b. Deconstruct at any (general??) vendor: make a separate tab or Decon all button...not sure exactly but the idea would be easier access to the deconstruction process. I would not even mind if the essence received was random (ie 50% prefix 50% suffix).

[Alistina]

Existing crafted items will remain as is.

When the new system goes in, the old system won't be available any longer.

Thanks for the reply. This brings me to my next question..

Is it possible to craft on a current random loot and not have it vanish when the new system comes out? (I think I remember reading something on the lines of 'the cannith-crafted items on the new loot system would vanish when cc pass comes out', but I don't remember if is was rectified or not)

[JOTMON]

~snippits~

• Marks of House Cannith will allow a 3rd effect slot on Cannith items
• There will be some effects unique to both Cannith Crafting and Random loot
• We know Deconstructing is one of the most time consuming aspects of CC and will look into ways to reduce this, but I do not have answers as to how this will work yet.

1. Third effect.. Would like to see these as locked in on Randomgens like augment slots.. deconstruct the base and this sticks with the item.. not craftable, have to be already on the base randomgen items.

2. Unique effects to each.. hopefully not many...rather see more like 1 above.

3. Deconstructing time consuming.. faster ways to deconstruct to base items.. like using the vendor interface and mass dumping items in... get half suffix/half prefix ingredients.. instead of individually choosing on individual items..


Other things...

Interface crafting XP into the system where crafting these items uses up XP as a component of construction.... keeps players farming xp instead of just capping and done forever....


change the interface of deconstructing items to be more like augments..
cleanse an item and you get a base item with a prefix augment slot , suffix augment slot. (and whatever was on the base item prior for hidden bonus and augments)
Take the Cannith crafting system and use a template system like Legendary Greensteel..
Add a toolkit option in Cannith crafting to unslot crafted augemnts..


would like to see more synchronizing in deconstruction with items..
deconstruct str items to get str fragments that consolidate into a STR item.. more fragments and other necessary ingredient to craft higher levels.
Generic ingredients for basic crafting, selective for higher level crafting
This way to craft vorpal.. you would have to deconstruct a whole bunch of vorpal weapons to get vorpal fragments.


an option to selectively clense effects..
Want to be able to take a half decent randomgen and modify it selectively..
Got a vorpal of acid lore with insightful acid.. just want to remove the vorpal to collect the vorpal ingredients and craft Acid onto the item to turn it into a Acid sceptre of Acid Lore with insightful acid..
Don't want to have to cleanse the entire thing and rebuild it from scratch... otherwise it just makes all non-stars aligned randomgens scraps to be crunched into basic materials.

wouldn't mind the ability to remove and upgrade previously Cannith crafted effects.. hence the prefix/suffix augment system..
Take a +6 stat augment, unslot it, and upgrade to +7.. then reslot back into the same item.

Cosmetic slot.. to slot a cosmetic look onto the item so it sticks with the item..

Potion/wand/scroll crafting.. with increasing level tiers and even higher UMD tiers to use for non-aligned classes..

crafting negative effect items to offer alternatives to masterful craftsmanship..
limited pool of negative options on certain craftings.. include overlap lashback if equipping two items that have same negative effect.
-... like equipping two -2 cha curse items instantly drops cha to 0 or applies a double negative to your highest stat...or some other mysterious curse effect..

[Livmo]

It would be great to be able to craft wands or consumables with x amount of charges that run out in place of clickies.

[RistoffDervish]

If a Mark of House Cannith is used, it will have a 3rd extra effect just like Random Loot.

Will cleansed base items still maintain metalline/byeshk/silver type properties as well as keeping augment slots?

Could I use a mark to create an item with 3 effects and an augment slot?

Deconstructing is very time consuming and clunky at this point in time. We know this. The problem is what the crafting system is capable of doing. We don't know to what amount we can alleviate this pain, but it is something we will be looking into as we move forward with updating Cannith Crafting.

What if you put an option in at the vendor where instead of selling all the selected junk loot like we do now, add a button that will automatically deconstruct all the junk loot and and reward you with the appropriate xp and essences instead of platinum?

[CeltEireson]

Off the top of my head looks okay. I've no issue with crafted items not being able to achieve quite the same level of power as random loot - in practice for items below the level 33 cap it means you just have to wait 2 or 3 levels character levels e.g. a masterful craftsmanship item has a min level of 20 and a stat item of +10, to craft a similar stat would mean setting the min level on the item at level 22.

Also whilst you do have to put a lot of work into it (and I have a character whose 150 in one school, and 146 in the others) you basically can get exactly what you want with an augment slot (within the limitations of which abilities fit which items) compared to maybe going through hundreds of chests and never getting exactly what you need, or paying an extortionate amount on the auction house / shard auction. Whilst this crafting doesn't look as flexible in some ways as original crafting - the fact that you can craft two abilities of the same level of power onto an item with the possibility of a third balances this out I think so I don't believe we need separate rules in terms of what abilities can go on which item.

As for all the nitty gritty details as to which shards are available and which aren't - given the original email I doubt very much they've got anywhere near that level of detail just yet. I assume they've been kicking back and forth various options before presenting us with this as their preferred solution.

Crafting augments - not going to happen given they're available in various in-game methods and on sale in the store.

Crafting slots - not needed, its not that difficult to get junk items with an augment slot and just strip it down. Although if crafting becomes popular again that may be more of an issue.

Not okay with class specific requirements to craft stuff - I'm not going to try and train up more than one character for crafting.

Whilst I'm not too sure about the ability to craft anywhere I do think you could put a few more crafting halls around the place including Forgotten Realms.

[HuneyMunster]

Will loot gen items concerning DR breaking be fixed at this time so they will work with when Cannith crafting. One of the most useful crafting recipes is Holy weapon for Delera for the ghostly skeletons with DR 100/Good.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Some people have already mentioned this a couple times here but it bears repeating :

LET US DECON ITEMS ANYWHERE AT ANYTIME!!!


Going back to asherons call, you carried a little tool with you that allowed you to deconstruct items you found while questing etc. PLEASE let us do something like this so we don't have to keep running to the crafting hall or ship just to decon stuff. That is REALLY REALLY a time consuming grindy PITA part of the process.

Cntl + C opens crafting deconstruction interface!

[JOTMON]

Some people have already mentioned this a couple times here but it bears repeating :

LET US DECON ITEMS ANYWHERE AT ANYTIME!!!


Going back to asherons call, you carried a little tool with you that allowed you to deconstruct items you found while questing etc. PLEASE let us do something like this so we don't have to keep running to the crafting hall or ship just to decon stuff. That is REALLY REALLY a time consuming grindy PITA part of the process.

Cntl + C opens crafting deconstruction interface!

Portable Deconstruction unit from the DDO store...

[DANTEIL]

As someone who has only very tentatively dipped my toes into Cannith Crafting, I am cautiously optimistic about these possible changes. What has put me off previously was the perception of tremendous amounts of grind for very little payout. What I would like, ideally, is the feeling that I can level up crafting levels nearly in sync with character level (assuming I spend some time gathering materials and processing them; I wouldn't expect instant gratification), so that I could craft something *useful* for the level that I'm at *now*, on this character. Crafting shouldn't only be useful for 2nd/3rd/etc life characters who have put the investment into crafting on previous lives.

[Livmo]

Portable Deconstruction unit from the DDO store...

Since arty is a pay class, add aiblity to deconstruct anywhere to arties when the class gets a pass. Or better yet make a rare item in the game that anyone can use to deconstruct anywhere. Get peeps to play content X to get the deconstruct anywhere wand

[Systern]

Other Considerations


Why not allow Cannith to put effects in any slot? In the new loot system, Named Items main advantages are that they don't have to follow the slot restriction for effects and get the Quality bonus type for effects. If Cannith also ignores the slot restrictions it takes a way a big aspect of what makes Named Loot special and goes a long way to making Random Loot useless.

Named Loot already goes that distance to making Random Loot useless. Named Loot's flexibility comes at an opportunity cost for Random Loot. For Example: Named Loot has more effects available than Random; Improved Deception can only be found at heroic levels on either The Ring of Lies, raid loot from Piker's Fate which I've never pulled and only ran once in the past 2 years, and Golden Guile, a necklace from Lords of Dust which I pull 3 of every Tuesday it seems. Wearing Golden Guile means the necklace slot is filled, and that slot can't be used for a Random Gen Int/Wis item. Crafting a Min II GS Helmet (upgrade over Minos Legens years ago) means I have 1 slot for these 2 stats. Flexible Shards round out the limitations that the unrestricted Named Loot imposes on Random Gen. I can put one of the stats on Goggles and craft the other on Gloves. This is the sole reason I crafted my completionist to level 150 in all schools.

As long as there's effects you want only on Named Loot, you must slot that item in that slot and have no recourse to how it interacts with the opportunities in Random Loot's availability.

[Deadlock]

The ML shards will be based on skill so that will happen.

Our system doesn't really have the capability to do a slider like you suggest. But since the ML will be the main limiting factor, once a player crafts the ML shard they want, the rest should be as simple as dropping in the effects they want for the different slots.

So provided people understand the ML they want and how the level of the shards they add affect that, can we filter the shards by level?

At the moment, we can't filter by prefix / suffix or ML. Dropping an item into the third "Bound Items" crafting device filters the list of shards available, but if I want to add a +2 suffix, I have no easy way to filter down to those. I'd consider a basic requirement for the new crafting interface. Are you looking for feedback on that too?

[Faltout]

Experience and Essences will carry over

Ok, that sounds good.

Power of Cannith Crafting

Random Loot has a normal range of effect powers that can drop at a given minimum level. Then there is an extra lucky range of slightly more power. This is marked by having Masterful Craftsmanship on the item which indicates at least one of your effects is at the maximum of the normal range or slightly higher.

The plan is to have Cannith Crafting be the top of the normal random loot range. It is important to us to have a system where Cannith Crafted, Random, and Named Loot is all usable by players. We do not want a system where Cannith overshadows Random loot making it not a true consideration to be used. By holding onto the Masterful Craftsmanship lucky power ranges on Random Loot, it should help Random Loot continue to have a use.

I disagree with this, but not too much to argue.

Random Loot chests can go as high as level 40. Cannith Crafting is currently planned to top out at Level 33 Loot. There will be increasingly better Minimum Level 30 shards to be crafted (the recipe an item will state what loot level it represents).

Ehhhh... what? Random loot chests can go as high as level... 30 as far as random loot is concerned. You still haven't explained what do the rnadom items gain by dropping in a chest of level 40. They are still ML 30 and as such restricted to the level 30 normal power range. What exactly does level 33 loot from CC mean?

Cannith will also have some effects that are not found in Random Loot where as Random Loot will also retain some effects, like Vorpal, which aren't craftable in Cannith Crafting. This will further giving both Cannith and Random loot purpose in outfitting a character.

This part is important. Do the following effects remain in the Cannith Crafting system? And how will their power level be adjusted with the item's ML (since there is no code to adjust it in the current random loot)?

1. lesser/____/greater) <something> bane
2. Aligned/Metalline
3. Anarchic/Holy/Holy Burst/Righteous/Pure Good/True Chaos/True Law/Unholy/Unholy Burst
4. Arcane Casting Dexterity/Arcane Sigil
5. Axeblock/Spearblock/Hammerblock
6. Bleed
7. Blindness Immunity
8. Blood
9. Blood Rage
10. Blueshine
11. Bodyfeeder
12. Command
13. Construct Fortification
14. Crippling
15. Destruction
16. Dusk
17. Efficient Metamagic - <something>
18. Everbright
19. Eternal Faith/Sacred/Silver Flame
20. Fearsome
21. Finesse
22. Good Luck
23. Ghost Touch
24. Invulnerability
25. Life Shield
26. Lionheart
27. Melee/Ranged Alacrity
28. Feat: Mobility
29. Nimbleness
30. Persuasion
31. Regeneration
32. (Improved) Shattermantle
33. Slowburst
34. Sneak Attack
35. Songblade
36. Staggering Blow
37. Stench
38. Telekinetic
39. True Seeing
40. Twilight
41. Unbalancing
42. Underwater Action
43. Vengeful

All of the above do not exist in random loot today. The bolded and underlined ones are some of the effects that are used pretty often in cannith crafted items. As you can see, those effects are very important to us and they should NOT disappear from CC.

How will it Work

The current plan is that a blank item will have the minimum level crafted onto the item. Then effect shards will be crafted on which will automatically get their power set to the right amount for the minimum level. No longer will you need Strength +1 and Strength +3 shards, just a Strength shard and the power will be set for you. This is a cleaner system as there is no advantage to the player to putting on a lower powered effect at a given ML, and it reduces ways a player may mess up an item.

Sounds reasonable. However, what about certain effects that can't appear before a certain level? We will be able to craft an Insightful STR shard but when we try to place it to an item of ML 3 we will get a +0 effect? And what about the effects mentioned above like eternal faith and melee alacrity? Will we have them from level 1?

Other Considerations

Why not allow Cannith to put effects in any slot? In the new loot system, Named Items main advantages are that they don't have to follow the slot restriction for effects and get the Quality bonus type for effects. If Cannith also ignores the slot restrictions it takes a way a big aspect of what makes Named Loot special and goes a long way to making Random Loot useless.

And what about old effects? Will we be able to still craft flexible shards for the unique effects to CC?

And another note:
How about you make the unbound versions of the shards have a lower power value than the bound versions? That way, someone that hasn't invested in Cannith crafting would not be able to get top notch crafted gear simply by asking a crafter.

[Glenalth]

So provided people understand the ML they want and how the level of the shards they add affect that, can we filter the shards by level?

At the moment, we can't filter by prefix / suffix or ML. Dropping an item into the third "Bound Items" crafting device filters the list of shards available, but if I want to add a +2 suffix, I have no easy way to filter down to those. I'd consider a basic requirement for the new crafting interface. Are you looking for feedback on that too?

From the description, this would not be needed at all. You craft an item to the level you want, then add shards. The shards do not affect the level at all, instead they are scaled to match the level.

[NoWorries]

One specific point that would be useful to have feedback on is if people prefer to keep all 3 Cannith schools, or would prefer it combined down to 1.

3 Schools keeps more lore and flavor to the system. We would likely go with 3 Essences (one for each school)

1 School simplifies the system and allows for a single remover instead of a prefix and suffix remover. We would go with a single Essence.

[NoWorries]

Ehhhh... what? Random loot chests can go as high as level... 30 as far as random loot is concerned. You still haven't explained what do the rnadom items gain by dropping in a chest of level 40. They are still ML 30 and as such restricted to the level 30 normal power range. What exactly does level 33 loot from CC mean?

Random Loot caps at a ML of 30. Treasure level goes up to 40 and the effect powers continue to rise through those treasure levels. Not all ML 30 items are the same.

[Wizza]

Random Loot caps at a ML of 30. Treasure level goes up to 40 and the effect powers continue to rise through those treasure levels. Not all ML 30 items are the same.

Chests' loot is bugged and as far as I know, it still hasn't been fixed as of now. mikarddo was kicked out of PC council for reporting a Developer's reply on the issue out of the PC forum.

[Faltout]

One specific point that would be useful to have feedback on is if people prefer to keep all 3 Cannith schools, or would prefer it combined down to 1.

3 Schools keeps more lore and flavor to the system. We would likely go with 3 Essences (one for each school)

1 School simplifies the system and allows for a single remover instead of a prefix and suffix remover. We would go with a single Essence.

3 schools.

Random Loot caps at a ML of 30. Treasure level goes up to 40 and the effect powers continue to rise through those treasure levels. Not all ML 30 items are the same.

Ok, good to know.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

One specific point that would be useful to have feedback on is if people prefer to keep all 3 Cannith schools, or would prefer it combined down to 1.

3 Schools keeps more lore and flavor to the system. We would likely go with 3 Essences (one for each school)

1 School simplifies the system and allows for a single remover instead of a prefix and suffix remover. We would go with a single Essence.

ONE SCHOOL.

Keep it simple and streamlined.