Cannith Crafting Discussion

[RD2play]

I would prefer one school; the only appreciable purpose of 3 schools was to increase grind -- anyone who wanted to craft pretty much needed all 3.

That said, I have no problem with multiple essence types (ie. in some sense preserving schools, but only in terms of the craftable effects, not separate XP). This seems to preserve lore AND simplify the system.

A worry I have with the much simplified system is that currently XP is gained by crafting different recipes. The new system has MUCH fewer recipes so either the decay needs to be removed/reduced (perhaps like quest XP -- a first time bonus then daily bonus etc), or the XP/recipe needs to be massively increased.

Wouldn't mind combining all the schools for the basic crafting, then have top level branches where you could specialize into a branch (thereby locking out the other branches).
Something like a Mastersmith of Jewellery crafting.. your overall crafting is superior, but your jewellery work is renowned.. Its as if you have infused a part of your self into the work
every Piece of jewellery you craft is imbued with masterful/wonderous due to your exceptional focus and skill.
You may have even unlocked the ability to apply quality bonuses by imbuing some special ingredients (commendations, tokens, remnants, whatevers,.. along with sacrifice of crafting XP into your work.
.. variations for armor, clothing, weapons, etc...
Lets players make some great items that could be sold/traded and limits the market flood due to the required farm for crafting xp and special ingredients...


Would also like to see a transition that allows currently uncraftable items to be crafted..
use the basic stripdown for basic components and crafting..
Use focussed ingredients to craft higher value things.. like Vorpal.. deconstruct many random vorpal weapons into vorpal fragments.. need a bunch of these fragments to craft Vorpal, etc..
so to craft these higher effects you actually have to collect and crunch these specific effects from other items, not just any basic ingredients.

Ohh these ideas sound intriguing, will contemplate on them

[Requiro]

(...)
It just should be this way : Named raid items > Top-Tier crafting > Lucky random loot and mid crafting > random loot and low crafting
(...)

Disagree. This way in some point in game (most of Veterans?) have no interest at ALL in random loot. Also your idea is much more linear (more like WoW you quoted) then new system (more like DnD I hope). I guess you don't carefully ready enough NoWorries proposal:

IN SHORT:
1. All sort of Loot should be attractive, for all players, even for Veterans.
2. Veterans have tiny chance to get super lucky random loot.
3. Average players can have very good gear with Caninth Crafting
3. New players can have “ok” equipment with luck or with little work with CC.
4. Everyone are happy.

About type of Loot:
1. Random Items - Extremely low change to get item that is more powerful then CC or Named Item. Most of the time useless junk (for Vendor only) But sometimes very nice item, that could be used while TR. Depends purly on luck. Overall: Main source of Plat.
2. Crafted Items - Exceptionally good If you put enough work to be "The Master" - Could be occasionally batter, then Named Items if you don’t have enough luck. Depends purely on time. Overall: Main source of equipment “holes”.
3. Named Items - Unique mix of different properties in different slots. Often the best in game equipment. Depends on time and luck. Overall: Main source of “the best” equipment.

So you should update you post:
“But HAPPLY it will be like this : Best in category Named Item> Extremely Lucky Random > Best Named Item> Best Crafting > Lucky Random > Named Item > Crafting > Random”

[rehakp]

And another i have in mind.
Please make crafted weapons (W) dices authomatically scale with level.
Its completely useless to have min 30 level weapon with cool enchants on it but with 1W compared to other weapons with comparable enchants but 5W ... or even 5W (blanks) in many cases.

[RD2play]

And another i have in mind.
Please make crafted weapons (W) dices authomatically scale with level.
Its completely useless to have min 30 level weapon with cool enchants on it but with 1W compared to other weapons with comparable enchants but 5W ... or even 5W (blanks) in many cases.

Haven't looked a RGL weapons in a while? did they remove paragon/epic on them?

but yeah, keen should also scale, keen I at 30 lol why even give it a numeral...

[dunklezhan]

I would prefer one school; the only appreciable purpose of 3 schools was to increase grind -- anyone who wanted to craft pretty much needed all 3.

That said, I have no problem with multiple essence types (ie. in some sense preserving schools, but only in terms of the craftable effects, not separate XP). This seems to preserve lore AND simplify the system.

Yeah, this works for me instead of 3 or 4 schools. Its getting down to just one ingredient and one school that bothers me.

[GoldyGopher]

For better or for worse here goes. Sorry for the long post (cough wall of text cough)
but I think you have the opportunity to create a crafting system truly worth of DDO.

I am using current in-game terminology throughout this post, not necessarily because I think the end terminology needs to match existing but to simplify the discussion and not worry about creating or using the proper term.

In a traditional crafting system, players collect resources, turn those resources into a commodity like staples and in turn use those staples to create end products. That in essence is what Cannith Crafting is today, we collect Lesser and Greater Essences, turn them into Shards and fit shards into blanks to create an End Product.

People like to point at the system in Star Wars Galaxies in which true endgame players had 50% named gear and 50% crafted gear, and players spent as much time working at crafting as they did questing. I know a lot of people are talking about grind here, but I don't think many SWG players would truly describe the work they did as grind, as it was a interesting system that immersed players into the game.

To Paraphrase several MMO e-zines, a good crafting system brings depth and emersion to a game while poor or tacked on systems bring unneeded grind and complexity. As I look at DDO today I see a potentially interesting Crafting System that suffers from the tact-on complexity that turns it into a grind currently. I am not just talking about Cannith Crafting, but other systems like attuned by heroism, stone of change rituals, and so forth.

The problem with Cannith Crafting is the other 29 to 31 crafting systems (depending on what you call a crafting system) that exist within DDO and never shall any two really meet in any depth. You can use a Stone of Change Recipe on a item created with Cannith Crafting Shards, but not named items that have unique and differing upgrade paths.
Additional people complain about the process to upgrade an item created using Cannith Crafting, no matter how small the upgrade is you always have to clear the blank, create all new shards and reinstall them on the blank. There is no way to replace a +2 strength shard with a +3 beyond clearing the whole thing.

If I were to take a step back and re-create crafting in DDO I would want an all-encompassing system. That system doesn’t need to be 100% perfect covering everything on day one it goes live, but give us a good starting point and show us it can be done.

I am not a big fan of one character is the all mighty crafter for each account or player, I prefer it takes a village approach, but if you don’t want to change that in DDO I am fine with that.

My preferred system is one where along the way you collect pre-filled blanks (items) along the way.

A Rusty Rapier from Jeets for example. The Rusty Rapier has an empty PREFIX slot, an empty ENHANCEMENT slot, and a flaming I (+1 fire damage) in the SUFFIX slot as well as a hidden FESTIVAL slot.

Upon completion of the Grotto, Cellimas gives the character a +1 Enhancement Shard with a quest to visit the Korthos Blacksmith.

Your character visits the Blacksmith and for a charge of 10 platinum he installs the +1 Enhancement Shard into the ENHANCEMENT slot on the weapon.

The Blacksmith is a Craftsmen a new class of NPCs in DDO. For a minor charge Craftsmen can fit shards into the appropriate slot onto a blank or base item. In addition to Blacksmith there are Jewelries and Tailors who hand jewelry and clothing respectfully.

Blacksmiths, Jewelries and Tailors are all placed with corresponding Brokers. The Brokers UI is divided into blanks and shards for sale. Brokers already exist in the game we are just giving them the ability to sell the appropriate shards.

[indent]As your characters quests throughout DDO you find shards (Parrying I, +2 Enhancement, Flaming I) as opposed to complete objects. Any shard you wish to use on your object you take the appropriate craftsmen and they affix that shard by either putting into the proper empty slot or replace the shard that already exists in the proper slot.

In our example Parrying I is placed in the empty PREFIX slot, +2 Enhancement replaces the +1 Enhancement shard in the ENHANCEMENT slot, and Flaming II replaces Flaming I in the SUFFIX slot.
It would be nice if the Craftsmen UI were to refuse to create an item above the level of the character attempting to fit the item.

As the character levels and experiences the game a festival occurs. The character can visit a festival craftsmen and activate a hidden FESTIVAL slot on the item. The cost could be Plat or Festival Turn in. The same festival Craftsmen could slot a special festival shard into the FESTIVAL slot.

There can be only one FESTIVAL slot, so events like Festivult, Risia Winter Games, Festival of the Traveler, Mabar, and so forth, each may have FESTIVAL shards, only one can be placed in a FESTIVAL slot at a time, if a new FESTIVAL shard is placed it replaces the existing FESTIVAL shard.

Our character participates in the Coin Lords Festivult, after earning enough Coins, the character visits the Festivult Craftsmen and activates the FESTIVAL slot. After earning additional coins the character visits the Festivult Broker and purchases a Frost I FESTIVAL shard. Visiting the Festivult Craftsmen the Frost 1 FESTIVAL shard can be placed in the FESTIVAL slot.

A few months later during the Risia Winter Games the character earns enough ICE Coins to purchase a ICY BURST I FESTIVAL Shard. Visiting the Risia Winter Games Craftsmen the character can have the Icy Burst FESTIVAL Shard placed into the [color=red]FESTIVAL[color] Slot replacing the Frost I FESTIVAL Shard placed during Festivult.

This system encompasses named items as well as blanks or base items. As named Items are simply filled blanks with special properties.

For Example a new Pearl of Power.
This item has a special property (POWER) that provides 10% base SP bonus to maximum SP.
It also has a special slot that will only take [color=red]MAGICAL PREFIX[/solor] shard, like Combustive, Corrosive, Devoted, Glaciated, Impulsive, magnetic Resonating, Reconstructive, Nullified, and Radiant.
So now you have an item that grows with a character but also requires the character to work to keep updated.

You can also adapt this system to Named Items from quests of packs. Two examples below:

The Bloodstone:
Special Property: Seeker that scales with Character Level
An EXTRA slot that takes a Weapon extra from the “new Random loot” system including Insightful Seeker, Insightful Deadly, Insightful Vertigo, Insightful Shatter, Insightful Stunning, Insightful Tendon Slice, Insightful Assassinate, Vampirism, Stat Poison, Spell Penetrations.

Balizade: Protector of the King – Named Rapier from Caught in the Web.
Special Property Dodge +8%
Special Property Good Luck: Scales with Character level
Parrying VIII shard in PREFIX slot
+7 Enhancement shard in ENHANCEMENT slot
Keen I shard in SUFFIX slot
Hemorrhaging IV in EXTRA WEAPON slot

Beyond having the shards in the 4 Slots upgraded or changed the item can be attuned by Heroism:
Tier 1 adds Planar Conflux: Scales with Character Level
Tier 2 adds Blue Augment Slot
Tier 3 Adds Special Power - Exceptional Dodge – Scales with Epic Level (Epic Level / 2)
Tier 4 adds Red Augment Slot
Tier 5 Adds Special Power – Exceptional Luck – Scales with Epic Level ( Epic Level / 2)
Tier 6 Adds Purple Augment Slot

Thus a character can continually work on upgrading an item that really fits their playstyle and wants.


Crafting
Our three existing crafting skills (Arcane, Divine, and Elemental) are replaced with Blacksmith, Jewelery, and Tailor. (I would prefer more but it is a compromise). I would also like to see Alchemist, Trapsmith, Potions, and potentially other crafts added but that is another discussion.

A player deconstructs a random generated item into shards and a blank. The blank and shards can further be separated down into raw materials.

Raw materials can be assembled into new shards.

The shards can be taken to Craftsmen for place on items.

You no longer receive Plat straight from deconstruction of items, but you can sell the items on the Auction House or two brokers.


The complete change doesn't have to be done today.
Start with Korthos Island, Stormreach Harbor and another say Red Fens named Items and have them ready with roll out. With Each update not only make appropriate changes but bring more named systems into the fold.

As the named items are brought into the fold you bring back re-playability of side quests that people ignore.
The system also creates a small plat sync, a small step in righting DDO in-game economy.

Just my 2 CP (several times over).

[RD2play]

Stone of Change recipes, are supost to work on all items. Only for named trowers it seems to be broken.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Remote Item Deconstruction

50 TP

Deconstruct items in quests or anywhere else. Upon use, the deconstruction window opens and lasts for two minutes.

[Faltout]

This time, mention the item types that a shard can go into. Also, allow the search by item type in the shard machine. We can already do that by taking a blank into the item device, but that's too clunky.

We wanna know what shards we can put in out items while crafting them. Same goes for prefix, suffix and bonus effects. Allow us to customize our searches.

[UurlockYgmeov]

New FR quest is dropping collectables.

[Chacka_DDO]

After I read trough the whole thread I try some kind of summery.

At first: I hope you don't want only a yes/no, if so I also don't get why there is no poll?

Maybe I missed something but everyone who got the opinion crafting need only one school and only one essence got no other reason but making it easier, at this point I must say: making something easier can only be good for a game, if it makes it less need of repeating exactly the same over and over again, with nothing new in it, where you have to take decisions.

There some who ask for even more as we have, that means they want some kind of improvement to the current system.
While I would like if that could happen, I am not that much after crafting to be able to really contribute something to this.
In every game I played so far crafting was only something that had to be done to get what I wanted, no matter how hard the developers tried to make it fun.

The third position want to keep at least what we have and I count myself to them.

.
I see the magic or flavor if you want as a very important part to give DDO character and I expect this to appear in all parts of the game.
Monsters: Fire Elemental
Weapons: Flaming
Spells: Fire Ball …
I think you got the sense, this is something that makes the world magic and therefore I also expect this to appear in crafting where you going to make items magic.
Remember Masterwork is the best a normal crafter can do and already the next step +1 enchantment is already beyond this level of quality.
Therefore I expect every magic appear in magic crafting if any possible.

fire, cold, acid, electric, sonic, light, positive, negative, good, evil, chaos, law, poison, rust

I would replace poison with body and rust with construct
and add mind and force to have 16 at the end.

Now to the Schools. Also here, I would like to see some kind of harmony with other parts of the game and that's why I would take the four spheres from the Epic Destinies.

Divine ( good, evil, chaos, law)
Martial ( body, mind, force, construct)
Arcane (fire, cold, acid, electric)
Primal (sonic, light, positive, negative)

And please see this as a try, I would more like see four spheres, each consisting of two pairs of opposites.

I think you identified this already as all kinds of possible magic in DDO and you may see, this as a try to bring crafting into accord with magic.

Its even possible you need to have a Epic Destiny Sphere maxed to unlock the crafting sphere.

Does this mean we need to collect 16 different essences and get them from deconstruction etc?
No, not at all, we could buy them at a crafting vendor for example.
The source is basically not very important but its important to have them.

But what we have to “grind” now?
At this point, a compromise is possible to have both, some magic flavor and an easier system.
You deconstruct the “magic power” of an item in one kind of “Power Essences” the question here is only how high is the amount you get.
For the problem of store this essence: It is possible to have a system similar to the sibery dragon shards.
Even the naming can be similar, so you have Flawed, Imperfect, “normal”, Exceptional and Flawless “Power Essences”.
So you may see, depending on the steps you do, you could store 160k (1 for 2 each step) or even a quadrillion (1 for 10k each step) of flawed “Power Essences” in a stack of 10k Flawless “Power Essences”

Deconstruction:
The amount of essences you get, should be foremost decided by the luck you need to loot this items, therefore a +11 item with ML 24 would give more “Power Essences” as an +11 ML30 item.
If you know the chances you can set the formula that decides how many “Power Essences” the deconstruction devices spits out when you put your shiny +15 strength item in or your not so shiny +11 item...
And of course an item with two high rolls and maybe an additional third slot need higher rolls. So the “Power Essences”output at the end should be a sum of all 3 possible slots.
It is not need to make any calculation how much luck is need to get a lucky combination, because a random item, with both, a lucky combination and high rolls doesn't belong into a deconstruction device anyway.

At this point, deconstruction could technically work like a vendor where you get “Power Essences” instead of platinum like already suggested by several other players.
If you want to make the system faster, here is the point, because this is really some kind of mindless repetition. Not to mention the additional technically problems.

For the cost of craft an item with a combination you want, the calculation must include how unlikely it is to get such a combination with an average chance.
my guess at this point is, the cost of an awesome crafted item must be enormously high, high enough to make you doubt anyone would even try to get this done.
But of course there is not only one ideal combination for each slot, so you also need an average score here.
This calculation maybe unveils how under powered random loot in fact is, compared to named loot where you can always expect a good combination of high stats and in addition more stats and effects not even possible on random loot.



So what now?

The current plan is that a blank item will have the minimum level crafted onto the item. Then effect shards will be crafted on which will automatically get their power set to the right amount for the minimum level. No longer will you need Strength +1 and Strength +3 shards, just a Strength shard and the power will be set for you. This is a cleaner system as there is no advantage to the player to putting on a lower powered effect at a given ML, and it reduces ways a player may mess up an item.

I think this is a very good idea!

We have to decide the magic of the Strength shard recipe and this decides the school. So it is body and therefore the Martial School/Sphere.

Just the question where the “Power Essences” decide the ML and how high the quality for the ML is.
Here you could have 3 kinds of blank items and Shards: normal, masterwork and wondrous. And the amount of “Power Essences” to craft them can grow dramatically for example masterwork 1k times of normal and wondrous 1k times of masterwork and so is wondrous a million times of normal.
(I don't have numbers and therefore I could not calculate it at all, but don't expect I think this will be cheap)
And again, the exact numbers are decided by the average need of looting random items before you get the item you want, and I know some solid math (stochastic) is need here. Maybe even a job for an professional mathematician.

Now to the power of Cannith crafting.
I just expect this:

crafted = random

This means only that you can do the same with crafting.
Random loot and crafting is no contradiction and there is nothing to fear. It is only a matter of how high the cost is. And this is decided by the possibility of looting an item with the same quality.
I know this is hard to understand because this is something you can not “feel” you only hear now you can maybe craft a +15 +15 +7 item or something, just at will and this sounds to powerful and to easy...
The same phenomenon appears also with random loot vs named items, you see it is possible to get random loot with better stats then named items and now you think named items are obsolete.
but you don't count in, how unlikely it is to get such an item and how easy it is to get powerful named items in comparison.

This all should be possible and I would not be surprised if it is even better what you planed.
But I can not else as saying this shows clearly level scaling is basically inherent in this system and I don't understand why this is apparently not an option.
You even set one key point with this ML base item, its only need to have a parameter there, that decides how much power the shards provides.
If the item is equipped the parameter caps at the character lvl, the Minimum Level turns into a Maximum Level.
And there is a second Max level, and this is the Power of the item so to speak.
Now you could work with this parameter and make it even possible to level you item to higher max lvl.
I am quite sure, if this would be there, there is barely anyone who would tell you about the good old times, where you had to store tons of items with basically exactly the same effect.
This is no fun, this is only administrative work.
And by the way this could also work for named items and random loot.

The next thing is, the for me strange opinion, named items must be better then crafted items and random loot etc …
My guess is, this is just a matter of habit and not of rational thinking.
Crafting is only random loot with the replacement of luck with grinding, if your lucky you get your item fast, if not, you got the option to force your luck with work.
And for named items.
I like the idea of named items foremost because there is some kind of story and idea behind it.
I I want to read some stories I like to listen to the awesome voice actors and even after years I am not tired of this!
But must crafting be a contradiction to named items and better or worse?
My opinion is:
crafting < named
but
named+crafting > named

but I think I that's already more than enough at this point.

[NoWorries]

There are still lots of details to be ironed out and we will get to a lot of those as more progress is made. The reason why I brought focus onto the 1 vs 3 school, is because that is a base piece of how all of the parts of the system will work and needs to be decided for work to begin.


Trap making will likely just get the essences swapped out with the new ones.
Runearms and Cannith Challenges I don't have answers for yet, but will as we move closer to that part of CC.
Inventory space, stack sizes, and how bags are used are important decisions that we will have to look deeper into before we can comment on what might happen there. Since the exchange from old to new essences will be done manual, there won't be any risk of the bags exploding on login.

[Livmo]

Inventory space, stack sizes, and how bags are used are important decisions that we will have to look deeper into before we can comment on what might happen there. Since the exchange from old to new essences will be done manual, there won't be any risk of the bags exploding on login.

Woot! I don't want to be the player that caused it to rain essences and shards in the Marketplatz, because I'm a hoarder

When the time comes, can we get an overly generous exchange rate?

Hooray and it's summer time!

[UurlockYgmeov]

There are still lots of details to be ironed out and we will get to a lot of those as more progress is made. The reason why I brought focus onto the 1 vs 3 school, is because that is a base piece of how all of the parts of the system will work and needs to be decided for work to begin.

Thanks for the update!

bags exploding on login.

EEK!

[SilkofDrasnia]

My favorite things/uses of the present cc are:
- Ability to craft masterful craftsmanship items, on the exact slot & item property I need.
- Ability to craft any properties on any slot, as per my requirement.
- Ability to craft properties that don't exist in the game any more, like invulnerability, banes, everbright etc.
- Ability to craft lowbie gear such as ML1 ranged/melee alacrity or invulnerability armors.

It seems, from what you have said so far, that all of the above is being removed from cc.
I would very much still like to see masterful craftsmanship exist in cc. It is grindy enough, and if you are willing to spend the time & resources you should be able to do it.

Same goes for flexible shards. They are at the very top of each school. It takes a lot of time & effort to get there, and not easily, considering you need ebb shards to get there. Keep the flexible shards as high as you feel right, even 33 if you want, so not even those with maxed out schools can craft them from day one. But please, no not remove this big awesome feature of cc.

An idea/suggestion:
- Retain the current function of mark of cannith. There are a a couple of top house favor rewards that are empty - PDK, twelve and gatekeepers. Introduce a new mark (Mark of insight?) that will allow you to add a third property on a crafted item. It can also be a store purchase item, & a rare chest drop along with being available with a vendor that would sell the mark after you unlock it with favor (could be like current cannith top tier, where you need to unlock it afresh each life to have access to it)

Things I like about what you have suggested:
- A lot less complicated system
- No more ambiguity on the final ML of a crafted item
- Players retaining there existing crafting xp
- Easy decon (hopefully)

Indeed. I like CC for the very same reasons and looks like my hard work will be invalidated. Dunno did read the whole thread so dunno if this has been addressed?

...snip....

Not okay with class specific requirements to craft stuff - I'm not going to try and train up more than one character for crafting.

....

What? It's late and I'm tired so maybe I'm not seeing it but what does your class have to do with anything?

MC currently in RGL only effects ONE effect, not the entire Item. So how would the system have it stay on the Item? On top this will lead to much confusion for players, after disjunction, what effect will be MC? prefix? suffix? bonus?

I feel the way they have addressed the use for the Cannith Mark to get you to add the 3th "bonus" effect a good solution.

Marks allow us to lower ml by 2 levels, this makes it useful for twinking but it looks like this will no longer be possible so why not allow marks for adding a 3rd effect but let item you blank keep the masterful craftsmanship which would allows the effects on it to be two level higher than the ml, dunno maybe make it so this works if you only add 1 effect or something if that the issue since effect no longer determine ml. So MC blank with 1 effect gets this lower ml benefit but add more than one effect and you lose the MC bonus.

Personally I don't care about a 3rd effect I rather have only 1 effect at a high power level at a lower ml for my twinking purposes.

...snip...

This part is important. Do the following effects remain in the Cannith Crafting system? And how will their power level be adjusted with the item's ML (since there is no code to adjust it in the current random loot)?

1. lesser/____/greater) <something> bane
2. Aligned/Metalline
3. Anarchic/Holy/Holy Burst/Righteous/Pure Good/True Chaos/True Law/Unholy/Unholy Burst
4. Arcane Casting Dexterity/Arcane Sigil
5. Axeblock/Spearblock/Hammerblock
6. Bleed
7. Blindness Immunity
8. Blood
9. Blood Rage
10. Blueshine
11. Bodyfeeder
12. Command
13. Construct Fortification
14. Crippling
15. Destruction
16. Dusk
17. Efficient Metamagic - <something>
18. Everbright
19. Eternal Faith/Sacred/Silver Flame
20. Fearsome
21. Finesse
22. Good Luck
23. Ghost Touch
24. Invulnerability
25. Life Shield
26. Lionheart
27. Melee/Ranged Alacrity
28. Feat: Mobility
29. Nimbleness
30. Persuasion
31. Regeneration
32. (Improved) Shattermantle
33. Slowburst
34. Sneak Attack
35. Songblade
36. Staggering Blow
37. Stench
38. Telekinetic
39. True Seeing
40. Twilight
41. Unbalancing
42. Underwater Action
43. Vengeful

All of the above do not exist in random loot today. The bolded and underlined ones are some of the effects that are used pretty often in cannith crafted items. As you can see, those effects are very important to us and they should NOT disappear from CC.


Sounds reasonable. However, what about certain effects that can't appear before a certain level? We will be able to craft an Insightful STR shard but when we try to place it to an item of ML 3 we will get a +0 effect? And what about the effects mentioned above like eternal faith and melee alacrity? Will we have them from level 1?


And what about old effects? Will we be able to still craft flexible shards for the unique effects to CC?

...snip...

I would like an answer to this too. For me you simply cannot remove these effects it would outright suck lemons, same for flexible shards.. hell flexible shards is very much what CC is all about.

Named/raid items strength shouldn't just be flexibility of what effect can go in what gear slot but should have that AND, this is the important bit, have stronger effects and lower ML. CC should have that flexibility but not be able to go as low in ml with same power of effect.


As for the school I don't mind if they make it one school BUT dont nerf CC, looks up at these items, to make CC easier for new peeps or those that never bothered with it. CC is a grind and its suppose to be a grind which earns you the ability to craft some of the best random lootgen without the need to grind for it so in this vein I would rather have 3 school to grind instead of one if it means we keep the ability to make these items quoted above along with the MC idea I have suggested.

Otherwise if you kill off flexible crafting and all these above effects then make it one school only so I can be maxed out and just use CC and not bother with lootgen other than npc it barring some outstanding item that catches my eye.

[Ovrad]

And now, for the question that will be ignored as usual:
Will we be able to craft handwraps, and will they work?

Trap making will likely just get the essences swapped out with the new ones.
Runearms and Cannith Challenges I don't have answers for yet, but will as we move closer to that part of CC.
Inventory space, stack sizes, and how bags are used are important decisions that we will have to look deeper into before we can comment on what might happen there. Since the exchange from old to new essences will be done manual, there won't be any risk of the bags exploding on login.

...so... what about wraps?

[CeltEireson]

What? It's late and I'm tired so maybe I'm not seeing it but what does your class have to do with crafting.

Nothing currently, was just responding to a suggestion by someone that it should.

[DYWYPI]

Hmm, yes exploding Ingredients bags raining-down Essences; death by essence suffocation, unpleasant... they say that a bag of holding can't hold everything.

I'd probably have to create an additional account if something like: "Crazy Cannith Crafter, Essence storage bags" (Unique items: 3, Stack size: 50,000) were not introduced for Platinum pieces via a Vendor after the update.

Getting back to vendor purchase of; "Mark of House Cannith" currently unlocked with 50 House Cannith Favour, it appears you are going to alter [Mark] functionally (for a third effect optional)?

Of course currently, it is probably not even possible to acquire 50 Cannith Favour before a Player's Character acquires Level 15 anyway.

What is the probability of that Favour reward being changed to an 'unlock', persistent through TR (if it isn't already?), since it's related to "Cannith Crafting" rather than affecting the character during/within a quest?

It would be unfortunate if you could not make an exception that [Heroic] crafted items up to maybe ML 20? Were allowed some form of Masterful type effect to be applied to lower the ML (albeit only if the crafter didn't apply the "third effect" but had the Favour unlock for Marks of Cannith). I can understand not allowing Epic Items to possess Masterful due to power creep.

What will happen to our "current" already Cannith crafted items, if you want to blank them again, to re-craft onto them, in the new system. Will they be compatible with the New Machines?

[Faltout]

Summary of important questions for those not reading the entire thread:

1. How many schools will Cannith Crafting have? 3 or 1? ~NoWorries
   
   • Most say 1 school with 1 essence to simplify crafting
   • 3 schools, 3 essences
   • 1 school, 3 essences
   • 4 spheres, 12 essences
2. How will the leveling system look like? Considering that the number of shards is shrinking and that most of the shards have an effect that should be available from level 1 (like fire damage 1d6 or STR + 1 or Jump + 1), it seems like most of the effect shards will be at level 1 and only the ML shards will exist at higher levels. This can't be true however, because this would be a leveling nightmare.
   
   • Answer: ?????????? (We need to decide how many schools we have first)
3. Will the old effects still exist in the new system and how will their scaling with ML work? Will the old effects be revisited to scale with ML?
   
   • Answer: ?????????? (We need to decide how many schools we have first)
4. How will the effects that have a minimum level barrier work? Will we be able to slot an insightful STR shard into a ML 1 item for a bonus of +0? What about the old effects' minimum levels (assuming they remain in the system)? Will we be able to slot them to a ML1 item and have the effect right away?
   
   • Answer: ?????????? (We need to decide how many schools we have first)
5. What will happen to trapmaking if essences change?
   
   • Answer: Essences required for trapmaking will be converted to the current essences present.
6. What will happen to cannith challenge items and rune arms that are craftable and follow the old CC system?
   
   • Answer: Don't have an answer to that yet, but will as we move closer to that part of CC.
7. Will the essences suddenly overflow from our green bags when 12 stacks of essences get converted to 1 or 3?
   
   • Answer: No, the conversion will be manual so they will not suddenly make your inventories explode.
8. Will the new essences be allowed to stack in greater numbers in inventory?
   
   • Answer: ??????????
9. Will we be able to craft handwraps?
   
   • Answer: ??????????
10. Will flexible shards remain at least for old effects (assuming they remain in the system)?
    
    • Answer: ??????????
11. If 1 school is decided and you go with a single deconstruction recipe, how many essences will you get from deconstructing the item (considering that the prefix shard may have been way more expensive to make than the suffix or the other way around)?
    
    • Answer: ??????????

[Stoner81]

It just should be this way : Named raid items > Top-Tier crafting > Lucky random loot and mid crafting > random loot and low crafting
But SADLY now its like this : Lucky random > Named > crafting
Please fix that. You have the power now. Im happy if i have to invest > 4 milion platinum and some hours in crafting hall to level crafting if i get some usefull recipes thats USEFULL. But i will not be happy with investing money and time to get something i can buy on auction house for 1000 gp in common trash section

Myself and others have spoken out very loudly about this and it has fallen on deaf ears, the Devs are not willing to even entertain this idea because of their precious lootgen system they have now. Numerous things have been said and has shot down everything that has been said by the devs so that it just doesn't make sense!

I really wish it were the way you describe but as I said the Devs have ZERO interest in listening to that idea.

Stoner81.