Crit range Nerf incoming!

[SynalonEtuul]

Why isn't this seen as a good thing? Haven't people been suggesting a crit range nerf for ages? Everybody recognises that DPS from crits is overpowered and needs to be re-balanced.

And it's one thing to disagree with this, but people screaming about how they're going to quit is pathetic. Grow up, seriously.

[Enoach]

Is this a Nerf or a Correction?

If the calculations of Improved Critical didn't include enhancements/buff adjustments the amounts would match better with the New method.

Personally I think this will ultimately come out better for the game. Yes, the crit range will be reduced in places, but I think this means we will see a greater diversity of abilities in the future that have to deal with threat range and possibly critical multipliers (who knows).

This is a good change in my opinion.

[Bennum]

People have been advocating nerfs since the first class pass. The forum Kool-Aid has been served and consumed. Let the cross referencing of posts of those who repeatedly demanded nerfs in the recent past to those who are now rallying against nerfs currently, begin.

That is a generalization, I didn't call for nerfs but I and other middle of the road players like me will suffer with these changes. I've just about had it with this games volatile nature, just when I start to compete in EH this happens; I won't be renewing my sub if these nerfs hit live.

[redoubt]

Is this a Nerf or a Correction?

If the calculations of Improved Critical didn't include enhancements/buff adjustments the amounts would match better with the New method.

Personally I think this will ultimately come out better for the game. Yes, the crit range will be reduced in places, but I think this means we will see a greater diversity of abilities in the future that have to deal with threat range and possibly critical multipliers (who knows).

This is a good change in my opinion.

Correcting the multiplicative affect would be a good correction. The problem lies in that the proposed change negates a chunk of the bonus from "special weapons". Things like the SOS or brush hook.

[Ellihor]

The crit range NERF worries me a lot.



This is what is going to happen (crit multipliers aren't included since they're not changing):

Weapon	Base crit range	+ Old IC feat	+ New IC feat	+1 range bonus + Old IC	+1 range bonus + New IC	+2 range bonus + Old IC	+2 range bonus + New IC
ESoS/SoS	18-20	15-20	16-20	13-20	15-20	11-20	14-20
Sireth	18-20	15-20	17-20	13-20	16-20	11-20	15-20
Bone Crusher	19-20	17-20	18-20	15-20	17-20	13-20	16-20
Epic Bone Crusher	18-20	15-20	17-20	13-20	16-20	11-20	15-20
Needle	19-20	17-20	17-20	15-20	16-20	13-20	15-20
Pinion	19-20	17-20	18-20	15-20	17-20	13-20	16-20
Epic Riftmaker	20-20	19-20	19-20	17-20	18-20	15-20	17-20
Epic Assassin's Kiss	19-20	17-20	17-20	15-20	16-20	13-20	15-20
Mutineer's Blade	17-20	13-20	14-20	11-20	13-20	9-20	12-20
Deathnip	19-20	17-20	18-20	15-20	17-20	13-20	16-20
Balizarde	18-20 (w/o Keen)	15-20	15-20	13-20	14-20	11-20	13-20
Tiefling Assassin's Blade	18-20 (w/o Keen)	15-20	16-20	13-20	15-20	11-20	14-20
Sky Pirate's Dagger	19-20 (w/o Keen)	17-20	17-20	15-20	16-20	13-20	15-20
Whirlwind	18-20	15-20	16-20	13-20	15-20	11-20	14-20

ESoS takes a long time to farm, why nerf it yet another time (it was nerfed at least twice in the past)?
What was the reason to nerf so hard Thief Acrobats? Anyone even complained that Acrobats are overpowered? I do play my Acrobat a lot these days (he is my 5th epic toon and finally capped all EDs), but I have't seen any other acrobats on Orien at all (I do raid a lot too), I mean every other rogue is either Mechanic with Xbow (and an exploding barrel) or an Assassin. So, I ask again, why the nerf?

EDIT 1: Updated the table with more weapons and added more columns to compare things when there are bonuses to crit range too.
EDIT 2: General rule is that the wider crit range the harder the nerf (including bonuses to crit range from enchantments/epic destinies/holy sword/etc.). But even Greataxe users will suffer very hard from this nerf (check out Epic Riftmaker in the table: 15-20 vs 17-20).

You can't be serious if you think the way crits are working now on live is ok. Really, see the mutoneer's: it crits more than do normal damage. Or pally with SoS in DC: crits half of the attacks for a x4 damage. What are you thinking? These changes are only good. If you think that's right you are ashaming this community,

[Robai]

Why isn't this seen as a good thing? Haven't people been suggesting a crit range nerf for ages? Everybody recognises that DPS from crits is overpowered and needs to be re-balanced.

And it's one thing to disagree with this, but people screaming about how they're going to quit is pathetic. Grow up, seriously.

Instead of nerfing OP builds they are nerfing these things:
- Seeker
- Burst effects
- Heartseeker
- many other things that procs on crits

These changes also nerf hard earned items.

[redoubt]

You can't be serious if you think the way crits are working now on live is ok. Really, see the mutoneer's: it crits more than do normal damage. Or pally with SoS in DC: crits half of the attacks for a x4 damage. What are you thinking? These changes are only good. If you think that's right you are ashaming this community,

Nice over reaction.

I took his post as showing how it is not simply correcting the multiplicative bug in the improved critical feat. It is disproportionately affecting "special weapons".

[Robai]

You can't be serious if you think the way crits are working now on live is ok. Really, see the mutoneer's: it crits more than do normal damage. Or pally with SoS in DC: crits half of the attacks for a x4 damage. What are you thinking? These changes are only good. If you think that's right you are ashaming this community,

Criticals are fun! If the DPS is too high then lower it. I don't mind that, but let me have the fun.
Another thing is that for Undead/Constructs/Elemenetals crits are not working (without bypassing the fortification).

[Robai]

Nice over reaction.

I took his post as showing how it is not simply correcting the multiplicative bug in the improved critical feat. It is disproportionately affecting "special weapons".

Indeed, and the main thing is this: guess who gets nerfed most? (Just look at the numbers for Sireth/Epic Bone Crusher)

[Seikojin]

Thanks for the detailed breakdown. The feedback from this will definitely be useful as damage numbers start rolling in and adjustments from this change are brought into being (I suspect things from lvl 29 and 30 to be the lift to get things back up (but not to this excessive level)).

[Seikojin]

Instead of nerfing OP builds they are nerfing these things:
- Seeker
- Burst effects
- Heartseeker
- many other things that procs on crits

These changes also nerf hard earned items.

Less procs on crits (due to less crits) = less lag.

[Drwaz99]

Less procs on crits (due to less crits) = less lag.

Less fun = less players = less full groups = less total server checks/calcs = less lag, too.

For every person I've seen saying "YEAH!" to this, I've seen or heard 2-3 say, eff-this. If it happens as described, peace! (All these conversation are within parties in-gmae via voice chat, some/many don't visit the forums) And when I suggested they post, most-if-not-all replied, "What's the point? They do what they want, look at the test server. It's why I don't bother with the forums."

[Nhennan]

Why isn't this seen as a good thing? Haven't people been suggesting a crit range nerf for ages? Everybody recognises that DPS from crits is overpowered and needs to be re-balanced.

Easy for some to say.

I busted my freckle farming Deathnip for my current build. It took me a looooong time to farm enough shadow phlogistons from the Temple of the Deathwyrm raid for my completed thunderforged heavy pick. I've farmed/configured gear, feats, enhancements and EDs to support my build. And now I'll likely lose the hours upon hours (I don't want to count how many) I've invested? Not happy.

Does the heavy pick get good damage from crits? Hell yes! But I've sacrificed other things along the way (no glancing blows, lower base damage, no Power Attack etc). So I'm not seeing the problem.

My gear and feats etc are configured to beat Fortification to ensure I get my crits (so a further opportunity cost to increasing base damage). Should we narrow the (effective) build choice for melee DPS to two-handed weapons and simply turn on Power Attack and auto-attack?

This game rewards many different combat styles reasonably effectively (unless you are into short-manning EE stuff), which probably suits most of the players. I say leave it be.

[Robai]

Less procs on crits (due to less crits) = less lag.

I see what you mean, but don't think that this is what's causing the actual lag.
A single firewall or Otto dance, or simple arrow/bolt might be causing a lot more lag than Seeker, not to mention the things from Shiradi/Colors of the Queen/Warlock stuff, also I'm suspicious about mortal fear and other TF things.

I don't really mind the nerfs, the only sad part is that for some reason Arcobats get a lot more nerf than others.

[Grailhawk]

The crit range NERF worries me a lot.



This is what is going to happen (crit multipliers aren't included since they're not changing):

Weapon	Base crit range	+ Old IC feat	+ New IC feat	+1 range bonus + Old IC	+1 range bonus + New IC	+2 range bonus + Old IC	+2 range bonus + New IC
ESoS/SoS	18-20	15-20	16-20	13-20	15-20	11-20	14-20
Sireth	18-20	15-20	17-20 (nerfed by 2)	13-20	16-20	11-20	15-20 (nerfed by 4)
Bone Crusher	19-20	17-20	18-20	15-20	17-20	13-20	16-20
Epic Bone Crusher	18-20	15-20	17-20 (nerfed by 2)	13-20	16-20	11-20	15-20 (nerfed by 4)
Needle	19-20	17-20	17-20	15-20	16-20	13-20	15-20
Pinion	19-20	17-20	18-20	15-20	17-20	13-20	16-20
Epic Riftmaker	20-20	19-20	19-20	17-20	18-20	15-20	17-20
Epic Assassin's Kiss	19-20	17-20	17-20	15-20	16-20	13-20	15-20
Mutineer's Blade	17-20	13-20	14-20	11-20	13-20	9-20	12-20
Deathnip	19-20	17-20	18-20	15-20	17-20	13-20	16-20
Balizarde	18-20 (w/o Keen)	15-20	15-20	13-20	14-20	11-20	13-20
Tiefling Assassin's Blade	18-20 (w/o Keen)	15-20	16-20	13-20	15-20	11-20	14-20
Sky Pirate's Dagger	19-20 (w/o Keen)	17-20	17-20	15-20	16-20	13-20	15-20
Whirlwind	18-20	15-20	16-20	13-20	15-20	11-20	14-20

I'm sorry but unless there is a change from the + Old IC feat to the + New IC feat columns there is no nerf.

Improved Critical should have never doubled the effect of any critical threat increase other then that of the base weapon. When the u19 went live with this it was a bug we all know it was a bug and figured it would be fixed it took them way to ****ing long to fix it that's on them but none of us have any business complain about Improved Critical not doubling the effect of enhancements that increase critical threat ranger it was never supposed to do that and we all know it.

Changes from the + Old IC feat to the + New IC feat columns are nerfs and should be discuses with the dev it would be nice if they looked at these weapons and they corrected then on the weapon it self, as most of them were intended to crit more often.

[Ghoulstorm]

This is going to take a lot of the weapon diversity swash adds out, as rapier and kukri will be better than everything else again due to getting full effect from IC.

Yeah. I made my bard's tforged in short swords just to be different since they were the exact same as rapiers. Now I have to decide if I want to bother farming T3 again. The real kick in the crotch is that I've been working on etr's to try and get some done before they boost the xp requirements for them into the stratosphere with lvl 30 cap and have barely gotten to use my shiny T3. At least give us a way to break the thunderforged stuff back down and get some components back like with greensteel.

[Ellihor]

Criticals are fun! If the DPS is too high then lower it. I don't mind that, but let me have the fun

No, they are just meh when you crit every second hit.

[Ellihor]

Nice over reaction.

I took his post as showing how it is not simply correcting the multiplicative bug in the improved critical feat. It is disproportionately affecting "special weapons".

It is improved critical feat that WAS disproportionally affecting special weapons. It's now fixed. Most of these items will still be the best weapon untill lv 28 when you put your hand on TF T3. And in the case of Riftmaker, that is a lv 28 weapon, it only got better compared to TF maul.

[Robai]

No, they are just meh when you crit every second hit.

Especially if a crit comes from an Acrobat.
Nerf them more than others since Acrobats are OP and everyone is complaining about them being OP (and most rogues are acrobats atm, we need more mechanics or assasins instead).

[redoubt]

Less procs on crits (due to less crits) = less lag.

I played a moncher recently. Did not see lag associated with 10k nor manyshot.

I know the devs are saying it is there, but not all of us are seeing it in game.