Crit range Nerf incoming!

[redoubt]

It is improved critical feat that WAS disproportionally affecting special weapons. It's now fixed. Most of these items will still be the best weapon untill lv 28 when you put your hand on TF T3. And in the case of Riftmaker, that is a lv 28 weapon, it only got better compared to TF maul.

Improved Crit was multiplying other bonuses. This was wrong.

The new method works for base weapons, but it fails to take into account any special weapons. For example the silver flame bow is a special weapon that has a base crit range of 19-20. When improved crit is applied this weapon should go to 17-20. It does not. It only goes to 18-20 because bows are only getting +1. Yes it is still better for crit range than other bows, but it is not applying correctly.

[Lycurgus]

Why isn't this seen as a good thing? Haven't people been suggesting a crit range nerf for ages? Everybody recognises that DPS from crits is overpowered and needs to be re-balanced.

And it's one thing to disagree with this, but people screaming about how they're going to quit is pathetic. Grow up, seriously.

1. There are probably quite a few people who are getting tired of rebuilding and re-gearing when they already have the max number of heroic and epic trs they want.

2. Re-balancing is putting the cart in front of the horse when they haven't even done the initial balancing on: artificers, clerics, druids, fighters, favored souls, monks, sorcerors, or wizards.

---how can you properly re-balance melees without any clear vision of support roles? Or, do we expect players to retune their melee characters only to have to do it again when there's a caster pass and then a caster re-balancing and an overall game re-balancing and an xyz is over-performing in some random content re-balancing? In answer, see #1.

3. Turbine has a habit of leaving things unfinished. They start something and drop the ball. They're the ADHD poster child of game developers. There is certainty that this "balancing" act is going to be an abomination and screws certain classes for years to come.

So, yeah, I can see how it might get players riled up.

[unbongwah]

Oh and staff gets a little consolation in that pulverizer will now stack with the staff spec.

It's a wash for lootgen / crafted staves: Pulverizer stacks with Staff Spec; but the latter will only provide an effective +1 to crit range rather than +2 now due to Imp Crit stacking.

Current: 20/x2 base -> 19-20/x3 Staff Spec -> 17-20/x3 IC:B
New: 20/x2 base -> 19-20/x3 Staff Spec -> 18-20/x3 IC:B -> 17-20/x3 Pulverizer

However, Sireth users will see a huge nerf, since it still doesn't work with Pulverizer:

Current: 18-20/x2 base -> 17-20/x3 Staff Spec -> 13-20/x3 IC:B
New: 18-20/x2 base -> 17-20/x3 Staff Spec -> 16-20/x3 IC:B

If you like running in DC, you'll go from 11-20/x3 to 15-20/x3.

Why isn't this seen as a good thing? Haven't people been suggesting a crit range nerf for ages? Everybody recognises that DPS from crits is overpowered and needs to be re-balanced.

The problem is the nerfage isn't spread evenly. Some builds, like Sireth Acrobats and certain Swashbucklers, will see a big hit to DPS due to loss of stacking crit bonuses. Ironically, barbs should see the smallest DPS hit, yet they're arguably the class everyone agrees is most OP!

[EllisDee37]

You can't be serious if you think the way crits are working now on live is ok. Really, see the mutoneer's: it crits more than do normal damage. Or pally with SoS in DC: crits half of the attacks for a x4 damage. What are you thinking? These changes are only good. If you think that's right you are ashaming this community,

As pointed out, swashbuckling is taking the biggest hit.

Which is odd, because the devs cited swashbuckling as the baseline. And because they cited swashbuckling as the baseline, I'd say that yes, the way swashbuckling works with crit profiles on live is okay.

Improved Critical should have never doubled the effect of any critical threat increase other then that of the base weapon. When the u19 went live with this it was a bug we all know it was a bug and figured it would be fixed it took them way to ****ing long to fix it that's on them but none of us have any business complain about Improved Critical not doubling the effect of enhancements that increase critical threat ranger it was never supposed to do that and we all know it.

Again, the doubling of swashbuckling crit range bonuses right now on live plays a significant factor in what the devs consider the baseline melee dps.

[EllisDee37]

Here's how I'd like to see Improved Crit changed, originally posted here. (Now buried under an avalanche of pages.)

The idea is to base the threat expansion on the default multiplier of the base weapon type. Specifically:
x2 multiplier gets +3 range
x3 multiplier gets +2 range
x4 multiplier gets +1 range

This will keep staff and dagger builds viable and retain the weapon flexibility for swashbucklers, but won't accidentally make OP weapons like khopesh even more OP. The above rules end up with the following list:

Improved Critical:
+1 threat range to picks
+2 threat range to axes, bows, warhammers, mauls, and khopeshes
+3 threat range to all others

[Grailhawk]

Again, the doubling of swashbuckling crit range bonuses right now on live plays a significant factor in what the devs consider the baseline melee dps.

If that means they need more nerfs cool.

Regardless of it being base line it still should have never worked that way to begin with. I will concede that Swashbuckling and knife specialization were working as intended and could be modified to add +1 thread when the play also has improved critical but I doubt you can get me to agree to any other kind of change. Improved critical should only double the base weapon profile nothing else.

[EllisDee37]

Regardless of it being base line it still should have never worked that way to begin with. I will concede that Swashbuckling and knife specialization were working as intended

Also Staff Specialization.

Those could also be fixed by doubling their range bonuses.

[Grailhawk]

Also Staff Specialization.

Those could also be fixed by doubling their range bonuses.

Staff Specialization is different. Knife and Swashbuckling go out of there way to make all weapons they effect a 15-20/x3 (which residuals in its own right but i digress) base crit profile Staff Specialization is just like holy sword and Ranger crit bonus it gives a +1. Was the intent to make staffs THF 17-20/x3 base maybe but its not as clear and most staffs can make it up by using Pulverizer now so I don't see the need to give it a pass.

[IronClan]

The improved crit feat nerf is unecessary in the extreme, and just takes a huge bathroom break all over some weapon types. While at the same time making the already optimal weapon choices even more optimal.

If you use a Blunt weapon: welcome to LD your new only choice for Destiny.

Hope you enjoy the new DDO where choices are made so obvious that they might as well make them for you.

[IronClan]

most staffs can make it up by using Pulverizer now so I don't see the need to give it a pass.

See^ hey as long as we have one choice, then at least we have a choice ... that's the only one...

Wait is it still a choice if it's the only one worth picking?

*sniff sniff* Smells like NGE in here...

[redoubt]

*sniff sniff* Smells like NGE in here...

*sniff sniff*

hmmm.... a little bit. NGE is why I'm playing DDO... my whole guild bailed. I played one last time the night before, logged off and never went back. (Though I have played on the EMU servers some.)

[Grailhawk]

The improved crit feat nerf is unecessary in the extreme, and just takes a huge bathroom break all over some weapon types. While at the same time making the already optimal weapon choices even more optimal.

If you use a Blunt weapon: welcome to LD your new only choice for Destiny.

Hope you enjoy the new DDO where choices are made so obvious that they might as well make them for you.

Crit profiles have been inflated since U19, IC did not double enhancment crit threat extension befor U19 and should not have after. As far as I'm concerned this is a a much needed bug fix.

[mobilemuppet]

Overpowered, underpowered I don't care.
What I do care about is spending years farming items as well as mats such as TF ings just to watch my TF hand axe get nerfed.
I have not got the time or resources to have to create new weapons after spending over a year grinding to get 1 finished item.
Just do stuff right first time and stop f#@£king things up for the majority who are non power gamers .

Losing the will to keep playing as it's change,nerf after change nerf......

[Darkmits]

Criticals are fun

What's more fun is seeing that high damage once in a while. If you see it every third hit, that's not fun, that's expected. If you have 30% crit chance and you get an unlucky streak of 10 non-crits, the average expected reaction is that the game hates you and that reduces your fun. Crit chances MUST be low or else they are not a "woohoo, a crit!" moment, but instead every non-crit moment feels like an intentional penalty against you.

I'd rather see crit chances reduced to <10% and have all damage increased to compensate than have 60% normal and 40% crit.

[AbyssalMage]

Crit profiles have been inflated since U19, IC did not double enhancment crit threat extension befor U19 and should not have after. As far as I'm concerned this is a a much needed bug fix.

So what you are saying, and what should have been done, is that they fixed the formula (order of operations). Instead, the nerfed a **** ton of items and you are fine with it. This is why I can't understand your logic, or anyone else. Everyone here, the sane ones on the forums at least, would have been totally understanding if they had just fixed the formula (order of operations).

[Oxarhamar]

Crit profiles have been inflated since U19, IC did not double enhancment crit threat extension befor U19 and should not have after. As far as I'm concerned this is a a much needed bug fix.

should have fixed it doubling the enhancements not nerfed the weapons.

[unbongwah]

Crit profiles have been inflated since U19, IC did not double enhancment crit threat extension befor U19 and should not have after. As far as I'm concerned this is a a much needed bug fix.

U19 was over two years ago. Whether the crit stacking was WAI is irrelevant at this point; it established what's now considered "normal" DPS for most people. And has been repeatedly demonstrated, the proposed change to Improved Crit will not nerf all builds equally; some builds take a huge hit to their DPS while others are barely affected. Worst-case scenario: losing more than half your crit range. I admit that's an extreme outlier which probably no one has actually done, but it highlights the huge disparity in how this nerf will be applied. As I've said before, pure barbs should lose the least DPS, which I find ironic considering they are supposedly the most OP class which "needed" to be nerfed.

[Ellihor]

As pointed out, swashbuckling is taking the biggest hit.

Which is odd, because the devs cited swashbuckling as the baseline. And because they cited swashbuckling as the baseline, I'd say that yes, the way swashbuckling works with crit profiles on live is okay.

Again, the doubling of swashbuckling crit range bonuses right now on live plays a significant factor in what the devs consider the baseline melee dps.

Wrong. Swashbuckling is untouched if you use rapiers. Not like there was anyone using shortswords... Anyways, they already sad they are going to look at how swashs affects other weapons.

[Paleus]

Improved Crit was multiplying other bonuses. This was wrong.

The new method works for base weapons, but it fails to take into account any special weapons. For example the silver flame bow is a special weapon that has a base crit range of 19-20. When improved crit is applied this weapon should go to 17-20. It does not. It only goes to 18-20 because bows are only getting +1. Yes it is still better for crit range than other bows, but it is not applying correctly.

Why do you conclude that it is applying incorrectly? You flat out state, yes it is a better crit range than other bows. But it should be better-er than other bows? They still are better, they just aren't going to be multiples of better than other bows. To be incorrect, we need to assume that the default assumption is that certain special weapons should be better by a certain specified margin, seems that this change assumes a different margin than some would like. So, what should that margin of difference be?

[Ellihor]

Especially if a crit comes from an Acrobat.
Nerf them more than others since Acrobats are OP and everyone is complaining about them being OP (and most rogues are acrobats atm, we need more mechanics or assasins instead).

Unless you are using a Sireth, nothing changed. And Sireth is not top tier staff for a while already at cap. For lowers levels, isn't it good that it's no longer use that one weapon or go home? When one weapon is completly dominating a scence, there's something wrong.