Mythic and Extreme Difficulty settings

[FranOhmsford]

Mythic

End-Game specific difficulty similar to Pre MotU Epics.

Requirements
- Must be Lvl 28+ to enter
- Base CR 35 to start {at least 10 different Quests given the Mythic treatment} with new quests added later with CRs of 40, 45 etc.
- No C/N/H/E difficulty settings - You're either good enough to play Mythic or you aren't!
- Seal/Shard/Scroll type loot grind.
- No XP! Level capped players shouldn't need XP anyway! And Lvl 28-29 players can get their XP by playing EEs.
- No Hirelings allowed.
- Each Quest to get the Mythic treatment should be one that usually requires a minimum of 2 bodies to complete - Quests like Xorian Cypher and Tomb of the Shadow Lord are perfect for this!


Extreme

A New difficulty for all Heroic and Epic quests in the game.

Requirements
- No Loot Power Creep! Instead give much higher chances for Special Loot like Tomes and Hearts and Cosmetic items!
- No extra XP! Same as E-BB!
- No extra Favour! This is non-negotiable!
- Each Completion gives a guaranteed Legendary Victory in the End Reward list and all chests have a minimum Guild Renown drop of Tales of Valour!
- Maximum Level Requirement rather than Minimum! I.E. If you're over the maximum level of the quest {let's use BB level as the example} you simply have to wait till your next life to run that quest on Extreme!
- No Minimum Level Requirement - If you want to run Extreme Running with the Devils at Lvl 1 then Good Luck!
- Scaling set at 6 man and no reductions for less players!
- Champions Spawn Rates set to 100% {Thanks to Axel for this idea.}!
- Friendly Fire enabled! Use PvP system!

[Memnir]

We really don't need more difficulty settings.


/no

[FranOhmsford]

We really don't need more difficulty settings.


/no

Why not?

You've stated recently that you want grouping incentivised and this would do it both for End-Game and for TRing!

However it would not punish anyone who wasn't capable of running at that difficulty as making Hard and Elite more difficult via Champions has done!


Yes it would split the player base between those who only ran Extremes and the rest of us but frankly from what I've seen recently {since Warlocks came out and no longer Completionists joining my LFMs} that's probably a good thing!

I even had one person skip the entire first room of Delera's Pt 1 yesterday while running E-BB {Not a Favour run!}!
Heck he asked if he could start at least but I didn't expect to get into the quest 30 secs later to find him already at the end fight!

I had another person complete Shadow Knight before we'd got all the TRAPS!
And skipped half the rooms leaving the Rogue {me} to sort out mobs as well as trap all on my own! Not a quest where Rogues are particularly known for having it easy!


I say let the Ubers have their own difficulty!

[legendkilleroll]

How long til players not capable of completing start asking for nerfs?

[FranOhmsford]

How long til players not capable of completing start asking for nerfs?

Why?

With all the XP/Favour and Loot incentives removed why would anyone who isn't after a challenge care about completing? For a 2.5% chance of getting a Tome? For a 0.5% chance of getting a Lesser Heart? For a cosmetic pet that can't be bought off the store?

I don't think so!

[Qhualor]

No more difficulty settings. Elite used to be the toughest difficulty setting, but is now broken due to increased character power and devs not matching the difficulty. Fix elite.

[FranOhmsford]

No more difficulty settings. Elite used to be the toughest difficulty setting, but is now broken due to increased character power and devs not matching the difficulty. Fix elite.

As I've stated on multiple occasions - Buffing up Elite would hurt the game more than it would help!

A difficulty above Elite however...One where the Devs could start from scratch and deliberately make it brutal because it has no extras other than higher drop rates on special items and some cosmetics. That's a different story!

Also: Elite will never be capable of filling in as an End-Game difficulty - We had that difficulty...It was called EPIC! Now we need the Devs to give that difficulty back to us only now because Epic has become just more levels it will need a new name and Mythic fits well.

[Qhualor]

As I've stated on multiple occasions - Buffing up Elite would hurt the game more than it would help!

A difficulty above Elite however...One where the Devs could start from scratch and deliberately make it brutal because it has no extras other than higher drop rates on special items and some cosmetics. That's a different story!

Also: Elite will never be capable of filling in as an End-Game difficulty - We had that difficulty...It was called EPIC! Now we need the Devs to give that difficulty back to us only now because Epic has become just more levels it will need a new name and Mythic fits well.

Buffing elite would hurt the game because players have gotten used to the default difficulty, max rewards and most times no fail. Adding a new difficulty just doesn't make sense to make up for what elite no longer is designed for. Adding better incentives for a higher difficulty just sets it up for future nerfing so higher than the "1%" can complete. The devs need to match character power to difficulty setting at intended level range. That is the actual problem and what needs to be fixed.

[Impaqt]

Why?

With all the XP/Favour and Loot incentives removed why would anyone who isn't after a challenge care about completing? For a 2.5% chance of getting a Tome? For a 0.5% chance of getting a Lesser Heart? For a cosmetic pet that can't be bought off the store?

I don't think so!

Because some people arbitrarily decide its their right to play the game at whatever difficulty they want to play it at even though they are not actually capable of handling said difficulty.

I've seen people complain that they cant complete Epic Elite all the time. they could certainly just play on Hard difficulty and do just fine, but they feel entitled to the EE rewards for some reason.

Why exactly would this be any different?

and if you really think people would play a difficulty that offers no incentive at all, your not very in tune with what the "Ubers" want.

[Augon]

I don't think we need more difficulty settings.

It seems to me that the current system should have been fine except people felt left out of Elite because it was too hard. So they nerfed it so everyone coud do it. Now few play on the lower difficulty settings because Elite isn't really all that elite.

So we add 2 more difficulty settings, Mythic and Extreme. The same people who were not able to play on Elite before will be complaining that the new settings are "Elitist" and are too hard so they too will get nerfed and no longer be much of a challenge.

I feel the right thing to do is to adjust the current settings to make Elite truly elite, Hard REALLY hard, and normal - rather normal. Of course casual can be the easy button for new folks and folks learning the quests.

Of course I don't think that will ever happen, but its a good idea and sounds much easier than re-writing quests to accommodate new difficulty settings.

[General_Gronker]

Poorly considered ideas that would bring absolutely nothing good to the game.

[Saekee]

I don't think we need more difficulty settings.

It seems to me that the current system should have been fine except people felt left out of Elite because it was too hard. So they nerfed it so everyone coud do it. Now few play on the lower difficulty settings because Elite isn't really all that elite.

So we add 2 more difficulty settings, Mythic and Extreme. The same people who were not able to play on Elite before will be complaining that the new settings are "Elitist" and are too hard so they too will get nerfed and no longer be much of a challenge.

I feel the right thing to do is to adjust the current settings to make Elite truly elite, Hard REALLY hard, and normal - rather normal. Of course casual can be the easy button for new folks and folks learning the quests.

Of course I don't think that will ever happen, but its a good idea and sounds much easier than re-writing quests to accommodate new difficulty settings.

The difference is this: if you create something NEW, you do not take something away from what people already have. IF the Elite difficulty is buffed radically, then players will complain. If some new difficulty is added to the game, then no one can complain in this sense.
This is why nerfs cause so much grief. You take away from what people have. Something that affects the entire gaming experience like dungeon difficulty levels must be handled very carefully. So Fran and others have suggested new difficulty settings. It is a good idea. I know it might seem like adding a volume setting of 11 instead of just boosting level 10. But favor rewards and other things are tied to elite right now.

[Saekee]

Buffing elite would hurt the game because players have gotten used to the default difficulty, max rewards and most times no fail. Adding a new difficulty just doesn't make sense to make up for what elite no longer is designed for. Adding better incentives for a higher difficulty just sets it up for future nerfing so higher than the "1%" can complete. The devs need to match character power to difficulty setting at intended level range. That is the actual problem and what needs to be fixed.

I agree with you Qhualor in part. I believe that a new baseline has been established via the recent enhancement changes. They need to hold to that baseline. This way, with a new difficulty setting, they can make a permanent challenge.

I personally find epic elite plenty challenging, but then I am always using flavor builds that are tailored to my playstyle, not to what works best.

[FestusHood]

The difference is this: if you create something NEW, you do not take something away from what people already have. IF the Elite difficulty is buffed radically, then players will complain. If some new difficulty is added to the game, then no one can complain in this sense.
This is why nerfs cause so much grief. You take away from what people have. Something that affects the entire gaming experience like dungeon difficulty levels must be handled very carefully. So Fran and others have suggested new difficulty settings. It is a good idea. I know it might seem like adding a volume setting of 11 instead of just boosting level 10. But favor rewards and other things are tied to elite right now.

Agreed. The only people who i see really opposed to the idea are people who strike me as being very hung up on the idea of putting a lot of players "in their place".

Mucking with the existing difficulties is absolutely no different in effect than nerfing characters. Anybody that thinks nerfing characters is a bad idea shouldn't be in favor of upping the existing difficulties.

[knockcocker]

Agreed. The only people who i see really opposed to the idea are people who strike me as being
very hung up on the idea of putting a lot of players "in their place".

I think that's certainly true in some cases, though not all.

I actually think a Mythic difficultly (or whatever you want to call it) which is equivalent to the old 'Epic'
difficulty would be a good idea. At the moment there is very little to do at L28 apart from TR/ETR.

My concern would be over itemization and putting things beyond the reach of players who don't
play 40 hours a week. The game overall should be inclusive not exclusive. If prestige is desired,
it should be cosmetic not functional.

[Bloodskittle]

Mythic

End-Game specific difficulty similar to Pre MotU Epics.

Requirements
- Must be Lvl 28+ to enter
- Base CR 35 to start {at least 10 different Quests given the Mythic treatment} with new quests added later with CRs of 40, 45 etc.
- No C/N/H/E difficulty settings - You're either good enough to play Mythic or you aren't!
- Seal/Shard/Scroll type loot grind.
- No XP! Level capped players shouldn't need XP anyway! And Lvl 28-29 players can get their XP by playing EEs.
- No Hirelings allowed.
- Each Quest to get the Mythic treatment should be one that usually requires a minimum of 2 bodies to complete - Quests like Xorian Cypher and Tomb of the Shadow Lord are perfect for this!


!

I actually really support the prospect of a Mythic difficulty that operates similarly to the old epic system, but I'd like to tweak some of the things you've said

- Must be level 30 to enter (This must be representative of the true end game)
- Base CR 35 quest but scaled to the elite difficulty (effectively 37), all quests scaled for 6 players regardless of group size.
- EXP should still be awarded, don't forget that some people are racking up Karma for their epic destiny spheres!
- Mythic quests should not mechanically require at least 2 people but rather they should require more than one person because multiple roles need to be fulfilled to complete them, i/e CC, Melee and ranged DPS etc.
- Rather than returning to the old epic crafting system, all Mythic items in the game including ones that will be added in the future should appear exclusively in this content, they should never be "Must Have" increases in power but just slightly better, essentially keeping on track with how mythic items are now compared to their epic counterparts.
- Mythic quests should have higher drop rates on Tomes and other such items
- Mythic quests should not have champions in my opinion but be built to be so difficult that Champions are not required to bump up the difficulty.
- Traps should be actually dangerous, there are currently few quests in the game that an end game character says "oh shoot traps better wait for the rogue". To anyone without evasion and less than 1000 hp a Mythic trap really should be lethal.

Soloing a Mythic should be a real achievement rather than something that anyone can do as EE is today, (trust me anyone can solo EE you're just not trying hard enough guys!). Time completion on these quests shouldn't even be a competition because simply completing should be all the reward one needs.

Quests/chains/raids that should be made mythic:

Caught in the Web
Titan raid
HoX
VoD
Chronoscope
Ascension chamber (heroic abbot)
Tower of Despair

Shavarath (I know they're making new stuff I don't care)
Korthos - revisted, a version in which you take on the role of Jeets/Cellimas/Talbron
Inspired Quarter 2
Gianthold
Necro 1,2,3,4 (yes the entire bloody thing!)
Reavers Refuge
Xorian Cipher
The set of harbor quests but with kobolds swapped out for things far more sinister!
The Entire madness chain (having this all at the same level, all three separate packs would give people a reason to run it and a very interesting set of end game quests, love this content!)

And Also all the challenges should be provided with a mythic difficulty option that gives mysterious remnants instead of regular ingredients.

Mythic quests should only be playable once every 6 hours.

Most importantly a Mythic Saga in which all Mythic quests have been completed granting good chances at +5 tomes and very slight chances at +6 tomes, and insanely good amounts of Guild renown.
Completing the Mythic Saga should also give players a tiny crown added above their names for others to see, similar to TR wings.

As a rare drop in all mythic quests there should be the "Mythic Gem" collectible that can be combined with Mysterious remnants for interesting options at the remnant trader.

[Robbenklopper]

And if they re-rank the difficulties? EH seems to be more the average EN and EE is still hard (so much more like EH)

They could free up EE and overwork it. Standard Mobs are all crowned champs, many orange and reds running around. Fortibypass, one-shoot, mortalfear, debuffer, mana+leveldraining, CR100 50k HP Minimum each and call it a day. The new EE - eat or die.

Give it one day and you´ll get threads of any Kind. But this will lead to Adaption of Players. Why has everyone to be able to run EE without the proper abilities or gear? On the other side - why want to make People feel inferior to others?
You´re only inferior as Long as you don´t hit the requirements. That´s Adaption and Progress.

[Bloodskittle]

And if they re-rank the difficulties? EH seems to be more the average EN and EE is still hard (so much more like EH)

They could free up EE and overwork it. Standard Mobs are all crowned champs, many orange and reds running around. Fortibypass, one-shoot, mortalfear, debuffer, mana+leveldraining, CR100 50k HP Minimum each and call it a day. The new EE.

Give it one day and you´ll get threads of any Kind. But this will lead to Adaption of Players. Why has everyone to be able to run EE without the proper abilities or gear? On the other side - why want to make People feel inferior to others?
You´re only inferior as Long as you don´t hit the requirements. That´s Adaption and Progress. But anyway powercreep.

You forget the Bravery Bonus, people are very protective of their exp so this would screw a lot of people around, just putting Mythic as a new diff similar to the old epic however screws with no one and gives the end game players something to sink their teeth into.

[Robbenklopper]

You forget the Bravery Bonus, people are very protective of their exp so this would screw a lot of people around, just putting Mythic as a new diff similar to the old epic however screws with no one and gives the end game players something to sink their teeth into.

You´re right. I didn´t took everything into consideration and was in first a common thought, but the "new EE" difficulty would still Count under elite streak. Wón´t break my head on that, others can do better.

[Eth]

I really like the suggestions for mythic.

For Extreme cut the friendly fire. That just doesn't work in DDO.

If those were added I'd also cut casual difficulty so we still have 4 total.