Mythic and Extreme Difficulty settings

[fmalfeas]

The entrance is 100 feet above the middle of the pit, with no floor. Don't zone in without safe fall, featherfall, or really high tumble.

[Enderoc]

I think if there are sagas involved they should allow for a choice in scrolls and shards for completion.

[Rinnaldo]

I would love to see a difficulty setting for both friendly fire and a party size limit of 4.

[Zafaron]

There are quite a few ways to increase the difficulty on your own.. like playing a shoddy class/race combo. That said, I do like the idea of additional difficulty settings. Even if it's as simple as an additional checkbox that increases all the relevant hit dice, etc of all the monsters in the quest by the amount of your current bravery streak.

[Waylayer]

3. Randomly generated maps.
this will never work, to high a chance of uncompletable maps/quests.

Anarchy Online allows for the creation of randomly generated missions (dungeons); and has had this technology for years (since the inception of the game). This is a feature that I regularly discuss with family members; that we wish DDO had.

[Bloodskittle]

There are quite a few ways to increase the difficulty on your own.. like playing a shoddy class/race combo. That said, I do like the idea of additional difficulty settings. Even if it's as simple as an additional checkbox that increases all the relevant hit dice, etc of all the monsters in the quest by the amount of your current bravery streak.

Making your characters weaker to make the game harder is not a solution, I should be able to take a fully kitted out barbarian with every goodie and relevant past life in the game and still say "O Gee wiz this questicle is quite the pest" or something along those lines, seeing as I'm not allowed to swear on the forums.

[rehakp]

I see some great ideas for insane, mythic, extreme ..(whatever you call it) difficulty here.

Problem is we already HAVE this insane extreme difficulty in DDO. Its called L A A A G G G S or as i personally call it The Lagbeast.
When it really strikes no matter how mutch past lives or super gear or party teamwork you have and your party is just dead.
Im totally for some difficulty above EE (maybe some "achievements" like in WotLK WoW era). But it would only be more frustrating with The Lagbeast around each corner.
I say first put The Lagbeast on the leash and then play with difficulty above EE.

[blerkington]

I see some great ideas for insane, mythic, extreme ..(whatever you call it) difficulty here.

Problem is we already HAVE this insane extreme difficulty in DDO. Its called L A A A G G G S or as i personally call it The Lagbeast.
When it really strikes no matter how mutch past lives or super gear or party teamwork you have and your party is just dead.
Im totally for some difficulty above EE (maybe some "achievements" like in WotLK WoW era). But it would only be more frustrating with The Lagbeast around each corner.
I say first put The Lagbeast on the leash and then play with difficulty above EE.

Hi,

This is a very good point.

One of the problems with this topic is it's not being handled very rationally by several posters in this thread.

Many of the contributions here seem to be from people who don't want to mix with very skilled players and/or don't like being reminded when they visit the forums that there are players who are much better than they are.

So to these people it seems like a good solution to sink hundreds of hours developer time for the game to be changed, to help them deal with their own problems. Some of them even go so far as to admit it.

To paraphrase one of the responses to the dragon riddle in Litany of the Dead: 'The game should be left as it is, and these posters should deal with their hatred internally.'

There are so many better uses of developer time than punishing people whose opinions you don't like on the forums and whose ability reminds you of your own inadequacies in game.

Thanks.

[Silverleafeon]

I like reading lists of ideas.

Ideas spawn ideas.

And btw, Varg reads a lot...more than most realize.

[Silverleafeon]

Having an area with insanity levels with the understanding that it is intended as such would be much more welcome by me if the loot was not any better than elsewhere and it was labeled as such.

Like putting a quarter into an arcade game knowing that the game will beat you sooner or later.

To paraphrase one of the responses to the dragon riddle in Litany of the Dead: 'The game should be left as it is, and these posters should deal with their hatred internally.'

Lol...that is almost quotable for a sig...

[Silverleafeon]

I would love to see a difficulty setting for both friendly fire and a party size limit of 4.

What about six man raid settings?

[Angelic-council]

Hmm..

1: Once died, you can't be revived (except self ressurect: reborn in light etc).
2: You can not re-enter: so, once everyone dies, it's over.

I strongly believe that DDO is very fun when ran with someone else and not always zerged. If we add many restrictions into the new Mythic difficulty, people would think twice before zerging ahead. This would create more team play and we might actually need a healer or CCer. Once we make mythic difficulty only accessable by lv30 characters (who don't need exp by the way), this would be a good end game.

If we think carefully. Not everyone enjoys TR. And those veteran players who already achieved their goals are very bored today. So this new difficulty is really about the end game. I believe turbine can just keep releasing the new content without any new difficulty, but what would be a point in playing DDO when nothing is that exciting. People always enjoy new gear and new quests, but what is it there in the end. New mythic difficulty can potentically change DDO, in a very good way.

Also... This is very, very important - mythic difficulty shouldn't increase enemies save or hp. Because we don't need a pro wizard who can't really CC or DPS caster who always run out of SP. It should have many restrictions, but not overall harder than epic elite.

[Bannith]

I've been saying for a long time now that instead of blanket immunity on reds, they should have 'gear'. Helmet of Mind Blank, Boots of Free Action, a 'necklace' that protects them from neg levels, armor of Heavy Fortification, and a ring of Deathblock paired with a ring of resistance. Consider them to be BTC, and thus why we can't loot them. And the dispel system fixed for the state of the game. Suddenly, Mordenkainen's Disjunction becomes a critical spell for taking on bosses. If you want to use status effects, or try to simply snuff them out, you've gotta get that gear shut down. And since each item is a seperate will save to remain active, you may have to disjoin more than once. If you can shut off the helm, then you can toss a hypno just to weaken their will save (with no expectation of it actually landing) and a fear effect to hit them with Shaken, so they're vulnerable to Mind Fog, and /then/ disjoin again to try and shut the rest off. Hope the melees can keep the thing busy while you do that. And they'll even want you doing it, because that Heavy Fort will be giving them a bad day too. Really horrible, nasty bosses may even have things worse. Like Harry may have a GS Magma Surge accessory, so if you don't disjoin the thing, you run the risk of getting a megadot dropped on you that comes with a Slow as well every time you hit him in melee.

If the mobs could gear even halfway to what we do, they'd be a lot scarier, even if the bloated HP and Hit Dice were toned down.

Totally agree with this geared mobs and such make it much more stable if you ask me. Means things don't need some innate immunities and it gives everyone a way to make any mob easier to kill. If I remember right the Baldur's gate games did something similar to this with gear spell and the like being more important for enemies than inflated hp and saves. Take a little time to look back on it might be useful things that can be adapted in a unique way to DDO. However back on topic I'd kindda like to see this difficulty I don't agree with the original posts no solo thing though. If I'm good enough to handle all the mobs traps etc I shouldn't be crippled because of some door with 2 synced levers that's obnoxious. No gear killing either it shouldn't be a you fail you suffer for eternity thing just no. It would need some kind of incentive regardless of what people say about "elitists" or greed or whatever I'd probably run this for no rewards just for fun but really I'd like something in return if nothing else give me a chance at those tomes cosmetics and as one person said mythic gear. Stick with the current mythic standard of slightly better but not godly and maybe roll out some new cool mythic stuff heck maybe even some heroic/epic gear that only drops in these quests isn't really all that powerful but does something fun or exotic. Also yes to experience don't care about the OP it needs xp again incentive I get no reentries just give me my xp lol.... Yes to Dead magic and Wild Magic and Yes to Random Generation and Random bosses All that is pretty much gold and would definately hit the target audience(challenge seekers) with this. Definately loving the dead magic and wild magic zones would be amazing to see those in DDO(miss em from Baldur's gate ={). Random gen is amazing as it can confuse and confound even vets in a dungeon keeps things a bit on edge. Random Bosses is probably one of the best ideas I've seen from this and could potentially be applied anywhere else in DDO. All things create a higher challenge if they are unexpected like another poster said if i know whats there ima prevent it from jumping me. Simply randomize things change them maybe have a probability calculator that places mobs at instance load based on numbers a small variation to start then add more compositions of mobs as time progresses same with bosses. Say ringleader instead of an ogre it turns into a troll one run or maybe some other creature like a powerful caster sahuagin anything that could supress and control kobolds honestly. Long as it makes mild sense throw it in the boss mix!
Anyways thanks for reading my poorly thought out post and have a nice day/night -Bannith

[Mortas]

I have a couple of responses and suggestions. One is, cut the devs some slack. They have been giving ubers stuff to do. Part of the nature with a leveling game is you cap until something is done, which DDO has... repeatedly. In a P&P game you hit the cap, role-play the characters into the realms of legend and roll some new ones for a different perspective. DDO offers this and it gets very unbalancing with ubers being able to farm things for the lower levels. Unbalance leads to the "this is too easy". Well yeah, if you are twinked to high heaven, sure it is. If you've ran the content so much you know the exact timing of spawns, strength, weaknesses then, yeah it is easy. In P&P, the level cap we have in DDO is on par with deities. Interactions with such powerful personas are to be rare as they upset the balances. In DDO we have a ton of equivalent deities running around. In P&P when the players really wanted to revisit their ubers we used campaigns based in other planes of existence which DDO has sort of done. Having a Mythic difficulty setting is only part of balancing. I'd go further and suggest one-way portals to the "Mythic" planes where the ubers then remain. That will give more relevance to the heroic/epic side of the game.

The difficulty variable is just a tweak of the level dynamic. If you think about it, levels are essentially the same as any other level with different content. Rewards (eg. items) of slightly varying level requirements make it interesting but it is not the difficulty but rather the content of the challenges the enriches the game. If DDO made new "Mythic" content along something more akin to Anarchy Online with organized random encounters for the variation, we'd have a more satisfying experience. In fact, this could be the opportunity many of us will like with a game engine update to modern graphics etc. DDO Mythic can be a game system in it's own right that classic DDO characters can transfer to for additional benefit or characters can start fresh in the Mythic realms. The game play needs to be fresh such as characters have pocket dimensions they can build their personal fortresses/dungeons as bases of operation to continue their campaigns - which is tangent to the P&P experience for incredible high level characters. Talk to Mystra, Lloth, etc. about their power bases and paths to power - it all fits the D&D paradigm. Characters can still team up as they take on planar entities in campaigns that are unique to a character with random quest paths. Technology exists for DDO to do this (as a different engine). Lord knows the revenue DDO has garnered should be able to fund it. Happy to help with coding

[Bloodskittle]

Just as some added incentive to doing Mythic, because this seems to be one of the main issues people are having with a Mythic difficulty, a Mythic Saga that provided a huge amount of guild renown say 30,000-50,000, a good chance at +5 Stat tomes (say 5-10% chance of getting one per Saga turn in). Decent skill tomes and a very large exp stone choice (I know you can't benefit from exp at cap but you can leave the Saga alone and use the exp when you Epic reincarnate).

[mobrien316]

Just as some added incentive to doing Mythic, because this seems to be one of the main issues people are having with a Mythic difficulty, a Mythic Saga that provided a huge amount of guild renown say 30,000-50,000, a good chance at +5 Stat tomes (say 5-10% chance of getting one per Saga turn in). Decent skill tomes and a very large exp stone choice (I know you can't benefit from exp at cap but you can leave the Saga alone and use the exp when you Epic reincarnate).

I think the only reward for mythic level quests should be the satisfaction that you conquered a challenge.

If you get serious benefits for mythic difficulty, in a short time mythic will become the new normal and all the people who can't complete (and can't get the cool new shinies, or the extra XP, or the extra favor) will force more power creep until everyone can do mythic.

If you want XP you can already get it. If you want favor or guild renown you can already get it.

I think Mythic should just be for the people who think there is no challenge in DDO for their 75th-life, uber-geared, demigod character. If the devs come up with a mythic quest or quests for that reason, I think it would be great. If it's just going to be the new "elite" level, I'd say "don't bother."

[Xionanx]

Mythic

End-Game specific difficulty similar to Pre MotU Epics.

Requirements
- Must be Lvl 28+ to enter
- Base CR 35 to start {at least 10 different Quests given the Mythic treatment} with new quests added later with CRs of 40, 45 etc.
- No C/N/H/E difficulty settings - You're either good enough to play Mythic or you aren't!
- Seal/Shard/Scroll type loot grind.
- No XP! Level capped players shouldn't need XP anyway! And Lvl 28-29 players can get their XP by playing EEs.
- No Hirelings allowed.
- Each Quest to get the Mythic treatment should be one that usually requires a minimum of 2 bodies to complete - Quests like Xorian Cypher and Tomb of the Shadow Lord are perfect for this!


Extreme

A New difficulty for all Heroic and Epic quests in the game.

Requirements
- No Loot Power Creep! Instead give much higher chances for Special Loot like Tomes and Hearts and Cosmetic items!
- No extra XP! Same as E-BB!
- No extra Favour! This is non-negotiable!
- Each Completion gives a guaranteed Legendary Victory in the End Reward list and all chests have a minimum Guild Renown drop of Tales of Valour!
- Maximum Level Requirement rather than Minimum! I.E. If you're over the maximum level of the quest {let's use BB level as the example} you simply have to wait till your next life to run that quest on Extreme!
- No Minimum Level Requirement - If you want to run Extreme Running with the Devils at Lvl 1 then Good Luck!
- Scaling set at 6 man and no reductions for less players!
- Champions Spawn Rates set to 100% {Thanks to Axel for this idea.}!
- Friendly Fire enabled! Use PvP system!

/no

Extra difficulties bring nothing more to the game, if anything all it will do is fracture the already dwindling number of players into even smaller subsets, which will make finding groups even harder.

If you really want to "Challenge" yourself for nothing more then bragging rights, try using "Handicaps".
1. Random Roll your classes
2. Use only cannith gear
3. Use only found gear
4. Join one of the few remaining perma-death groups
5. Etc..

Plenty of ways to make the game "harder" without making a bunch of needless work on the part of already time strapped devs.. who could better spend their time on other things.

[Failedlegend]

oops wrong thread. The DDO forums do weird stuff sometimes lol

[esojiul]

We really don't need more difficulty settings.


/no

YES WE NEED. Mythical level good, basic you can have all the epic content for cap toons.

[esojiul]

[QUOTE=Xionanx;5650057]/no

"Extra difficulties bring nothing more to the game, if anything all it will do is fracture the already dwindling number of players into even smaller subsets, which will make finding groups even harder.

If you really want to "Challenge" yourself for nothing more then bragging rights, try using "Handicaps".
1. Random Roll your classes
2. Use only cannith gear
3. Use only found gear
4. Join one of the few remaining perma-death groups
5. Etc..

Plenty of ways to make the game "harder" without making a bunch of needless work on the part of already time strapped devs.. who could better spend their time on other things".[/QUOTE

wrong, many of the Epic content are for lv21-26. Also the loot has become trash. ! mythic level with, with mythic loot will be great for cap toons.
How many people runs lob or MA raid, because of the loot, "0"and was a great raid.