Potential changes to healing amplification

[bennyson]

This change sounds good.

Now we can actually still get some decent healing AMPs and slot in DIFFERENT pieces of gear!

I like it!

[droid327]

forum failed

[droid327]

So what about the toasters? Are they going to start with -50, and then get +30 via Enhancements?

[Kawai]

woot

[bennyson]

So what about the toasters? Are they going to start with -50, and then get +30 via Enhancements?

THE ERA OF THE FLESHY!

Join us or become a can of Iron Defender's Food.

[sarcasm]

[Glascanon]

So you are saying you are too powerful for the game and you should be nurfed.

Yes please! But not just me. Its all overpowered massive 4 the content upp these days.

It has to be either way. The devs start nerving us or bring upp tonns of new contet to runn or ppl will just get bored of running content without any kind of challenge included.

Right now its just about grinding. There was never a huge reason to run EE except the challenge part.
Now EE is not even challenging anymore it just takes a little longer but its same boring grind like EH or EN.

There are tons of Youtube vids out there witch show ppl running EE solo Quests or even Raids like LOB or ADQ.
I can solo almost every quest or Raid on EE with ease.
And my Toon was never meant to do that!
Running EE solo should not even be possible for any toon!
4 Soloing we have EN (or EH for the stronger toons)

Its not that ppl dont want to play tanks or healers or buffers like bards where before. The dmg dealers just dont need them and nobody wants to feel worthless in a quest.
So buffrers and tanks where made damage Dealers too.

[Steiner-Davion]

This really needs clarification...

I'm assuming it means existing items wont get healing amp added to them.. but all existing items that already have HA will be adjusted to the new system.

Also: Please get the Character sheet revision in sooner than later... Still missing Spell Crit chance as well.

To to mention a break down of the bonuses/modifiers to skills too....

[Impaqt]

I seeing a common theme among the people not so thrilled with this change....

Instead of posting an actual reason why they think its not a good idea, they are deflecting attention to "Why dont you fix things that are broken instead of this?!?!?!!"

That, to me, is a pretty good indication that thi sis indeed a step n the right direction.

The people against this change know they really dont have a leg to stand on.

[FestusHood]

I will be interested to see the proposed changes for barbarians. Hard to imagine what kind of healing amp will be included that requires a system change where current paladin, monk and human amp enhancements don't.

I don't see a problem with the current equipment as far as values and stacking go. The only problem was a lack of variety in the sources. With current epic gear, only 30% is available, and always on gloves. For people who have them, legacy convalescent items are all bracers. Introduce gear with 10% and 20% values, on different items, and augments with 10%, 20%, and 30% values, and that would solve any problems i have with the current system.

Doubling the amounts on gear and still allowing them to stack(additively) will cause the effects from gear to dwarf the effects from paladin past lives, and to a lesser extent, enhancements.

The paladin past lives were always small amounts. The key was that with a multiplicative system, the number of sources is as important as the individual values of the sources. It's the combination of many tiny amounts of heal amp that allows the super heal amp builds to get as high as they do now.

I'm afraid that gifting huge amounts of heal amp on gear will make the work and/or sacrifice involved with getting the smaller amounts from past lives and enhancements not worth doing in an additive system.

Since an additive system is apparently inevitable, i would suggest that you either double the amounts, or let them stack, but not both. I would prefer letting them stack to doubling them personally. If they are doubled but not stacking, you will have to strictly level gate the amounts to prevent all amounts below the highest from becoming completely useless.

[Pescha]

THE ERA OF THE FLESHY!

Join us or become a can of Iron Defender's Food.

[sarcasm]

Fleshlings are terrible so i am all happy if they nerf healing amplification.

[Bridge_Dweller]

Fleshlings are terrible so i am all happy if they nerf healing amplification.

they didn't, it got buffed to hell for all but the worthless phoenix builds that were terrible in the first play.

You should go fleshy, and paladin. The light side has better cookies.

[FAQ]

When I first read this thread, I was against the changes, just because I dislike change in general (yeah, I said it. Despite being in my early 30's I'm sure that a grumpy old man lives inside of me. Get off my lawn you **** kids).

After giving it some extra thought, these changes seem to be in the right direction. However, I think that doubling the Hamp values and making them stack is a bit of overkill, as others have pointed out. The solution I prefer would be just to make different values stack additively, without doubleing the effects. Yes, this would be a widespread 'nerf'. But maybe that is a good thing at this point and time.

This seems like a golden opportunity to reduce some of the power creep in the game. Just my 2cp.

[SilkofDrasnia]

I will be interested to see the proposed changes for barbarians. Hard to imagine what kind of healing amp will be included that requires a system change where current paladin, monk and human amp enhancements don't.

I don't see a problem with the current equipment as far as values and stacking go. The only problem was a lack of variety in the sources. With current epic gear, only 30% is available, and always on gloves. For people who have them, legacy convalescent items are all bracers. Introduce gear with 10% and 20% values, on different items, and augments with 10%, 20%, and 30% values, and that would solve any problems i have with the current system.

Doubling the amounts on gear and still allowing them to stack(additively) will cause the effects from gear to dwarf the effects from paladin past lives, and to a lesser extent, enhancements.

The paladin past lives were always small amounts. The key was that with a multiplicative system, the number of sources is as important as the individual values of the sources. It's the combination of many tiny amounts of heal amp that allows the super heal amp builds to get as high as they do now.

I'm afraid that gifting huge amounts of heal amp on gear will make the work and/or sacrifice involved with getting the smaller amounts from past lives and enhancements not worth doing in an additive system.

Since an additive system is apparently inevitable, i would suggest that you either double the amounts, or let them stack, but not both. I would prefer letting them stack to doubling them personally. If they are doubled but not stacking, you will have to strictly level gate the amounts to prevent all amounts below the highest from becoming completely useless.

I think some people are letting their fears run away with from them, the whole point of this system it seems to me is to nerf all out hamp while buffing moderate amounts of it. Now some might feel the game is easy enough as is but Turbine seem to want to go this direction and it is really another debate altogether and has it own thread.

For pally PL, which I have 3 of btw, the simplest solution is to double the value. If people are really worried about power creep just leave hamp like it is period.

I am sure there are other ways barb can be buffed without the need to give them huge hamp.

[axel15810]

I'm happy with the proposed change. Looks like a solid net positive. It simplifies the heal amp system.

Also good move putting hamp into barb trees. I hope this means you will be keeping the class unique (and not too similar to fighters) and give them no or minimal self healing in return for the biggest melee DPS in the game via a buffed rage. I'd love to see group play actually be a competitive playstyle again as oppossed to everything always being BYOH. Hopefully big heal amp for barbs means some nice group synergy with divines.

[mikarddo]

I seeing a common theme among the people not so thrilled with this change....

Instead of posting an actual reason why they think its not a good idea, they are deflecting attention to "Why dont you fix things that are broken instead of this?!?!?!!"

That, to me, is a pretty good indication that thi sis indeed a step n the right direction.

The people against this change know they really dont have a leg to stand on.

Is there any particular reason that you ignore the opponents that are against the idea because its objectively a significant buff to many builds including some of the already strongest ones? One could think that by your own words this would show that you know you dont have a leg to stand on.

[Toro12]

I think some people are letting their fears run away with from them, the whole point of this system it seems to me is to nerf all out hamp while buffing moderate amounts of it. Now some might feel the game is easy enough as is but Turbine seem to want to go this direction and it is really another debate altogether and has it own thread.

For pally PL, which I have 3 of btw, the simplest solution is to double the value. If people are really worried about power creep just leave hamp like it is period.

I am sure there are other ways barb can be buffed without the need to give them huge hamp.

They are nerfing massive amp builds
Keeping moderate amp builds on level
Give a massive buff to those with next to no commitment to healing amp.

Honestly though that seems to be a side effect of just changing the system to something that is a bit easier to deal without the fear of crazy multiplicative stacking.

[Monkey_Archer]

Well, consistency is good. So I will also be consistent with my feedback made on the last update's system changes.

Overall, from a player vs player perspective this change is great. Lessening the gap between healing amp builds is definitely a good thing. Well designed change and consistent with other system formulas.

From a player vs monster perspective, again, just like the armor and melee power changes, the numbers are absurd. A completely unnecessary buff, again, to help struggling builds become overpowered, rather than just tone down the problems.

Fact: A 1000 hp paladin with 100+ PRR/MRR and "only" 200% healing amp is virtually unkillable in 99% of content in this game. And that 1% is never going to be from damage alone (more likely from CC, stat drain, antimagic, etc..). There is no reason why a build like this needs more buffs (even if the goal is to help other struggling builds).


On a side note, I just managed to get my Zombarian to level 20 without using a single consumable for healing (Elite streaking solo). I would like to see how you plan to make this build overpowered as well. (please dont, the lengths I'm going to to find challenge in this game are getting to desperate levels)

[Impaqt]

Is there any particular reason that you ignore the opponents that are against the idea because its objectively a significant buff to many builds including some of the already strongest ones? One could think that by your own words this would show that you know you dont have a leg to stand on.

well, no, because thats really not true is it? I havent seen anyone show that a build thats over 500% healing amp show a net gain on this proposed system. Are you claiming that the folks running 600-900% healing amp currently are getting stronger with this new system? can you elaborate on that?

regardless, even if they did get buffed, I wouldnt care because the system still helps players like myself significantly. the players that dont grind the past lives and try to squeeze in items in every slot they can.

[Uska]

Is there any particular reason that you ignore the opponents that are against the idea because its objectively a significant buff to many builds including some of the already strongest ones? One could think that by your own words this would show that you know you dont have a leg to stand on.

Indeed it's power creep to those who didn't need it and a nerf to those who didn't need that

I never dreamed they would find a way to do both at the same time not a fan of giving barbs howling amp either

[FestusHood]

well, no, because thats really not true is it? I havent seen anyone show that a build thats over 500% healing amp show a net gain on this proposed system. Are you claiming that the folks running 600-900% healing amp currently are getting stronger with this new system? can you elaborate on that?

regardless, even if they did get buffed, I wouldnt care because the system still helps players like myself significantly. the players that dont grind the past lives and try to squeeze in items in every slot they can.

Builds that currently have more than 600% heal amp are extreme outliers. The vast majority of players right now probably run with a total of less than 200%. Any characters who have more than that now have specifically made that a feature of their build. If these changes go in as proposed, having over 200% healing amp will be an afterthought.