Earning Hearts of Wood - post U20

[kanordog]

Here You go:
Sentinels of Stormreach - Saga of the Black Tide
Vault of Night - Saga of the Laughing Knives
Demon Sands - Saga of the Djinn Zawabi

[ironegrip]

This is not the number we are expecting at all, despite how often this is quoted, and feel this has misinformed some player's expectations. This is partially why we tried to clarify earning progress in multiple sagas at the same time. Our estimates are for roughly 3 Commendations per quest after looking at the overlapping quests in Forgotten Realms, played on Epic Hard.


This is also why we're actively looking at different ways to earn Commendations of Valor, though we can't promise specifics for U20 at this time. That is part of why we aren't touching Tokens of the Twelve for U20, either.

I've prowled the forums for a while, but rarely post, but I thought I'd shed some light on this mechanic given the new updates on it. I've done some basic math, and given the above post, and using epic GH as a baseline (because 10 quests is easy to calculate), we can get some preliminary numbers.

given that it should be 3 comms per quest for Ehard sagas, which amounts to about 30 comms per run of Ehard GH. Now, given that we're looking at about 250 comms for a heroic heart, we need to run the whole saga 8.3333 times... round up to 9. 9 completions of Ehard Gianthold is required for one Heroic heart of wood.

NOW:

the quest XP breakdown looks something like this: (pulled from ddowiki)

cry for help: 19,710
cabal for one: 15,086
feast or famine: 19,030
foundation of discord: 17,398
maze of madness: 16,310
trial by fire: 17,670
crucible: 26,510
madstone: 22,934 (enorm xp, ehard was not available on wiki)
pop: 17,330
Tor: 22,000 (guesstimate based on enorm and ehard)

for a grand total of: 193,978 xp

now multiply that by 9, and you get 1,745,802.

which means, at a bare MINIMUM, you would be lv 23 before you could heroic tr.

Please note, this is the BASE xp, and thus does not take into account xp modifiers which anyone running quests would know how to optimize. The consecutive hard bravery bonuses, 10% for no deaths, for no re-entries, etc... would of course stack multiplicatively. Again, I even discounted optional xp, and the xp you inevitably earn from running in the explorer areas.

In truth, we all know that first run of each of these quests nets us anywhere between 40-60k+ xp at a bare minimum. I'll leave the final calculations to someone else, but I modestly estimate that you would be close to, if not far past lv 25 before you can earn one heart for reincarnation.

TLR ... you'll be far past heroic cap before you have your heart.

[Kza]

I want to be able to interact with Ppl on server. I want to be able to sell things and buy things. In My opinion there should only be bound raid rewards and maybe some select few powerful quest rewards. Make em unbound!! Let Ppl play how they want and be happy! You make so many strange bound ingredients and stuff that the game have lost some of its stability.

Plz remove LOTs of all diff ingredients you have on game before making even more!

Plz revert back to old random loot!

Plz make an update of all raids except one or two and make em all to be lvl 30. IT is sad see all those great raids obsolete in game.

Plz be sure to keep in mind players want to have fun. For most of the Ppl that means making your toon better while playing fun queasts with fun toons! Most dont like play in off destinies but you Will with karma do that? And most dislike some quests but you force ppl play select quests for sagas instead of letting some drop in any epic chest? I cant understand why it cant be in any chest once a day instead? IF you have like daily bonus?

[kanordog]

I
which means, at a bare MINIMUM, you would be lv 23 before you could heroic tr.

Of course if You CAN RUN those lvl 24 (on Normal) quests at lvl 20...

[danotmano1998]

Our estimates are for roughly 3 Commendations per quest after looking at the overlapping quests in Forgotten Realms, played on Epic Hard.


This is also why we're actively looking at different ways to earn Commendations of Valor.

Every epic quest should be awarding these as end rewards.
Drop sagas entirely.

Problem solved.
Oh, and YES to BTA.

More choices = more fun.
Why does it matter if some people can do it faster?

Why do you guys keep insisting on gating the acquisition of these?

[Drwaz99]

There's active discussion here at Turbine about the binding status of Commendations of Valor.

This is what we are tentatively moving to for the next Lamannia preview (which is decided days ahead of time, so the conversation is likely to keep moving and Lamannia will be out of date by then):

Heroic True Heart of Wood: Costs 250 Commendations of Valor
Binds to Character on Acquire

This is not what we intend to ship with. However, we need to decide on whether to lower the cost should or change the Commendations to be Bind to Account instead of Character. (Or potentially both, as the exact cost is still under discussion, but for simplicity I'm pretending it's one or the other right now.)

If the Commendations are BtA, we expect that most Commendations will be farmed by level-cap characters and passed to other characters, and that they will be earned much faster than if the Commendations are BtC and earned by lower level characters. We also believe there are legitimate reasons for both choices and why one or the other is better for gameplay or fun, many of which have been expressed by various players recently.

We're of course happy to hear feedback on all aspects of Reincarnation or other upcoming changes, but if you have specific thoughts on whether you'd prefer BtA Commendations or a cheaper price for Heroic True Hearts of Wood, please let us know here in this thread!

This is not the number we are expecting at all, despite how often this is quoted, and feel this has misinformed some player's expectations. This is partially why we tried to clarify earning progress in multiple sagas at the same time. Our estimates are for roughly 3 Commendations per quest after looking at the overlapping quests in Forgotten Realms, played on Epic Hard.


This is also why we're actively looking at different ways to earn Commendations of Valor, though we can't promise specifics for U20 at this time. That is part of why we aren't touching Tokens of the Twelve for U20, either.

COV's have got to be BTA for me to accept this. And HoW are going to have to cost the equivalent of the work it takes now. It's nonnegotiable for me.

My TR character doesn't want to run Epics and I won't do anything I don't think is fun. Your already going to pretty much force me to buy Epic and Iconic TR woods if I chose to do those - we are conceding those COV cost to you. As it stands there are quests I just won't run, In the Belly of the Beast is one. I will never run that quests again, and if have to pay to skip it 7-10 times to get one heart especially for a heroic heart, not going to happen. It leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

I don't want to be reminded at every turn that I have to pay for something when I play. PERIOD!

And to note, at 3 COV per quest on EH, that's 84 quests. But it's not 84 quests that we want to play, it's 84 quests that you put together, with nothing more than sales in mind. Why not do what everyone.single.person in this thread has mentioned and add them to end chests.

To get to the point: We have really changed direction from what was previously proposed; and I for one am very pleased that the systems team has taken that direction from 'power from pain' to something more palatable, like 'rewarded for efforts.'

When the quote above was initially wrote, I had hope that your crazy tactics and baffling decisions would come to and end. But forcing people into Saga's is pain. And the rewards as it stands now DOES NOT make you feel good for the effort required.

And if that's not going to happen. And if I don't do that your going to miss out on any money I would have spent on XP pots, and Otto's boxes (which will definitely end up being more than me just buying a heart, then being disgusted with Turbine and not buying anything again). If I feel like you trying to get me for money at every corner, I'm just done spending money and time on DDO and Turbine. This game has turned into the POP-UP ads of MMO's.

And maybe this is what your trying to achieve, but your wearing me out on the feedback. You hear what you want, disregard the rest. Nothing has changed in the 6 years I've been here. Wait, I'm wrong on that - it's gotten worse. (Yes, I really am THAT frustrated. Why do you want us feeling like this!?! HOW IS THAT OK TO YOU?)

That means 30 CoV in GH on EH...
I would have to solo the whole chain more then 8 times!
80 long (some of them rather annoying) quests on EH

Is TR not meant to be available at lvl 20? Because they are like lvl 25 quests...

This is what I am talking about! Numbers like this are not good.

Seriously. Come back when you can show you truly listened. And if your not going to stop wasting our time.

[Darkrok]

Why do you guys keep insisting on gating the acquisition of these?

This really is the leveling sigils part II. TR'ing is now part of the leveling curve and the hearts are the new leveling sigils. Be interesting to see how long it takes the dev's (if ever) to accept that.

[Scraap]

This is not the number we are expecting at all, despite how often this is quoted, and feel this has misinformed some player's expectations. This is partially why we tried to clarify earning progress in multiple sagas at the same time. Our estimates are for roughly 3 Commendations per quest after looking at the overlapping quests in Forgotten Realms, played on Epic Hard.


This is also why we're actively looking at different ways to earn Commendations of Valor, though we can't promise specifics for U20 at this time. That is part of why we aren't touching Tokens of the Twelve for U20, either.

So are you just fishing for someone to suggest 1 per quest and 2 per quest cumulatively per saga completion, or what?

[Tuffgar]

this by the way is why I don't like the idea of tying commendations to saga completions.
as you can see I usually don't complete ANY sagas during a life. I quest in a random fashion, I completely avoid quests I don't like, and I also enjoy running challenges.
under the current system, this is a quite acceptable, highly rewarding way to go about it.
under the new system, random questing and challenges would give me nothing. absolutely nothing. not a thing. not one (!!) thing. So you've just rendered my play-style invalid.
and to top it all off, sagas would force me into running quests I would normally avoid. the only reason I'll be forced to run them, is because you the devs decided I should. and I mind it, I mind it a lot.

This is my playstyle in a nutshell as well. I pick and choose and play LOTS of different content. But Sagas often contain quests that I absolutely avoid because I don't like the style of them.

Put CoV in end chests, similar to how shards of the twelve currently drop, and add BONUS CoV for saga completion. You simultaneously please the people who aren't interested in sagas while adding incentive to run sagas. Why is that difficult?

[Systern]

There's active discussion here at Turbine about the binding status of Commendations of Valor.

This is what we are tentatively moving to for the next Lamannia preview (which is decided days ahead of time, so the conversation is likely to keep moving and Lamannia will be out of date by then):

Heroic True Heart of Wood: Costs 250 Commendations of Valor
Binds to Character on Acquire

This is not what we intend to ship with. However, we need to decide on whether to lower the cost should or change the Commendations to be Bind to Account instead of Character. (Or potentially both, as the exact cost is still under discussion, but for simplicity I'm pretending it's one or the other right now.)

If the Commendations are BtA, we expect that most Commendations will be farmed by level-cap characters and passed to other characters, and that they will be earned much faster than if the Commendations are BtC and earned by lower level characters. We also believe there are legitimate reasons for both choices and why one or the other is better for gameplay or fun, many of which have been expressed by various players recently.

We're of course happy to hear feedback on all aspects of Reincarnation or other upcoming changes, but if you have specific thoughts on whether you'd prefer BtA Commendations or a cheaper price for Heroic True Hearts of Wood, please let us know here in this thread!

Assuming that the "Pay to upgrade your reward tier" feature is not bugged, which, just saying, isn't really a safe assumption, and the figures for commendation payout on Lamma are indicitive of what's going Live.

At 17 commendations for The End of Eberron on a hard completion, and 16 commendations for a Hard completion of Menace of the Underdark, that's 8 completions of both sagas to get the required commendations for both hearts.

At 17 quests total for each saga, that's 136 quests to get a heart.

Running Spinner 8 times, at 4:43 each run, that's 38 minutes of play time, held, doing nothing but listening to a spider cackle and wishing for a Skip Cinematic button.



These values are still untenable.

[HAL]

There's active discussion here at Turbine about the binding status of Commendations of Valor.

This is what we are tentatively moving to for the next Lamannia preview (which is decided days ahead of time, so the conversation is likely to keep moving and Lamannia will be out of date by then):

Heroic True Heart of Wood: Costs 250 Commendations of Valor
Binds to Character on Acquire

This is not what we intend to ship with. However, we need to decide on whether to lower the cost should or change the Commendations to be Bind to Account instead of Character. (Or potentially both, as the exact cost is still under discussion, but for simplicity I'm pretending it's one or the other right now.)

If the Commendations are BtA, we expect that most Commendations will be farmed by level-cap characters and passed to other characters, and that they will be earned much faster than if the Commendations are BtC and earned by lower level characters. We also believe there are legitimate reasons for both choices and why one or the other is better for gameplay or fun, many of which have been expressed by various players recently.

We're of course happy to hear feedback on all aspects of Reincarnation or other upcoming changes, but if you have specific thoughts on whether you'd prefer BtA Commendations or a cheaper price for Heroic True Hearts of Wood, please let us know here in this thread!

First, how can we decide whether we choose the 250 cost if we don't know how many Comms we will get per Saga or if we will be able to get them from individual quests? Assuming the current Comm reward on Lam, I will never TR again unless I happen to "win" a Heart somehow. I will not participate in a system that REQUIRES me to grind anything and I will not buy them from the store.

Second, why restrict players (yet more) to particular forms of play? Why not do both so that players who want to gain Comms more quickly before level cap can get BtC and players who prefer to keep a character at level cap for farming can gain BtA?

[Desonde]

...4 dungeons will have their XP decreased. These might not necessarily correspond to the high XP/min dungeons that many players run. Our intent is not to punish players who have the skill to defeat a difficult dungeon in a relatively short time - as long as no exploits are involved...

...One thing, which players have already pointed out, is we are moving to a single game currency specifically for Hearts of Wood. New content, Eberron or FR, will not use Tokens of the Twelve, formerly “Epic Dungeon Tokens.” Originally intended as a hardcore option for the most Elite level cap builds – prior to U14 - the accessibility was made trivial for some when Epic levels were introduced. We left that unchecked and low priority for some time and there is an amazing disparity between players that can grind dozens in hours vs. the majority that takes days (20-30 hours) of gameplay to accomplish – we are balancing this system...

...
If the Commendations are BtA, we expect that most Commendations will be farmed by level-cap characters and passed to other characters, and that they will be earned much faster than if the Commendations are BtC and earned by lower level characters...

What about the disparity of what the devs are saying? The first says they don't want to punish those that have the skill to complete difficult dungeons faster than the norm. The second says they don't want there to be a difference in time based on skill level/dedication. And the third says that those who've been playing longer and reaped the rewards of the game shouldn't be able to use those rewards to benefit their continued enjoyment of the game.

The fact of the matter is that if it takes someone currently 3 hours to get 24 tokens, while the majority takes 24 hours to get 24 tokens and you change the system so that those that could get TR ready in 3 hrs of game play will now have to spend 20hrs to get ready will result in the majority of players needing to take 160hrs of game play to achieve the same result.

Those that can perform a task 8 times faster than the norm will always perform the task 8 times faster, no matter how challenging you make it. Don't balance the system on the 1%.

[Dawnsfire]

So, we're at 80ish quests instead of 20-40 now? Why this huge increase in grind? Just a money grab?

And where are the replies to all the concerns about tying this to Sagas?

It will be sagas simply because that ensures premium folks have to buy more content. Depending on the saga you need MOTU, Shadowfell, the druid pack, Gianthold and/or the high road pack. I am pretty sure it is sales of these that are pushing people out of the old Eberron epic content and into the new Gianthold/Expansion content for all their TR needs.

They are willing to negotiate on the grind a bit but not on old content vs new I suspect. If that is the case, I just wish they would have comms drop in the end chests of whatever packs they want to sell or as a choice from the final quest giver for each quest arc. At least then I won't have to run more than a quest or two that I do not like.

Oh and BTA please, I really like to turn a character around at 20 not 23 or so.

[RedOrm]

This is not the number we are expecting at all, despite how often this is quoted, and feel this has misinformed some player's expectations. This is partially why we tried to clarify earning progress in multiple sagas at the same time. Our estimates are for roughly 3 Commendations per quest after looking at the overlapping quests in Forgotten Realms, played on Epic Hard.


This is also why we're actively looking at different ways to earn Commendations of Valor, though we can't promise specifics for U20 at this time. That is part of why we aren't touching Tokens of the Twelve for U20, either.

Personally, and based on your price if 250 per heroic heart, I think an average of 5 on EN, 7 en EH and 10 on EE would be better numbers, but the main issue would still be the link with sagas.
THAT needs to be removed.
How about you throw in some actual D&D dice and make it 1d4 comms on EN, 2d4 on EH, and 3d4 on EE for the end chest of ANY level 20+ quest, and give a nice bonus amount for completing a saga? If you do that I won't even complain if you raise the price to 300. Provided they are BTA of course, again that part is an absolute must.

Greetz,
Red Orm

[Ebondevil]

This is not the number we are expecting at all, despite how often this is quoted, and feel this has misinformed some player's expectations. This is partially why we tried to clarify earning progress in multiple sagas at the same time. Our estimates are for roughly 3 Commendations per quest after looking at the overlapping quests in Forgotten Realms, played on Epic Hard.

Personally I find an average of 3 per quest on Epic Hard rather insulting if you need 250 of them, I would be happier with 10-20, for a level 21-23 Epic quest, with numbers increasing slightly the harder the quest got:

For example:
Base Quest Level/Comms:
Level 21: EN = 10 CoV's, EH = 15 CoV's , EE = 20 CoV's
Level 22: EN = 12 CoV's, EH = 18 CoV's , EE = 24 CoV's
Level 23: EN = 14 CoV's, EH = 20 CoV's , EE = 26 CoV's
Level 24: EN = 16 CoV's, EH = 22 CoV's , EE = 28 CoV's
Level 25: EN = 18 CoV's, EH = 24 CoV's , EE = 30 CoV's
Level 26: EN = 20 CoV's, EH = 26 CoV's , EE = 32 CoV's
Level 27: EN = 22 CoV's, EH = 28 CoV's , EE = 34 CoV's
Level 28: EN = 24 CoV's, EH = 30 CoV's , EE = 36 CoV's

More Effort = More reward

This is assuming they are BTA!!!!

It also assumes that you get some of them as drops from running the quest, Auto-grants for killing Orange/Red names come to mind, as well as chest loot that can be passed to friends if required.

So Take the End of Eberron Saga as an example, on Epic Hard:

All quests from the Web of Chaos story arc:
The Lords of Dust (level 21): 7 From the quest
Servants of the Overlord (level 21): 7 From the quest
The Spinner of Shadows (level 21): 7 From the quest

One connecting quest:
Beyond the Rift (level 21): 7 From the quest

All quests from the City of Portals story arc:
The House of Rusted Blades (level 22): 9 From the quest
The House of Broken Chains (level 22): 9 From the quest
The House of Death Undone (level 22): 9 From the quest
The Portal Opens (level 22): 9 From the quest

All quests from the Queen of the Demonweb story arc:
Trial by Fury (level 23): 10 From the quest
The Deal and the Demon (level 23): 10 From the quest
Reclaiming the Rift (level 23) : 10 From the quest

Total 94 from 11 Quests

Then on Top of that the Saga reward option would be an additional Optional 98 Commendations.

Grand Total = 192

This sort of level would make the commendations a sought after Saga reward but not turn them into an effective mandatoy selection as the reward because it's the only sensible option if you ever want to TR again.

Please try to keep in mind that you should not want to make the CoV's the only viable reward option from the Saga's, if you do that then the saga's will just turn into a hateful Reincarnation grindfest.

[Dielzen]

End Chest Loot =

1 Commendation for EN
2 Commendations for EH
3 Commendations for EE

Make a Heroic Heart cost roughly (# of quests you think appropriate) * 2. Then scale up for Iconic/Epic Hearts

Now the ubers can do EE and get there 50% faster, while the casuals can get there 50% slower.

Clean, elegant, and gosh, you can even do minor tweaks to the turn-in costs over time without having to change the coding for a single thing other than the turn-in dude.

Not to mention you don't punish people for being dead when the quest is completed, like the Sagas currently do.

PROS:
Sagas are now still just extra candy, and not required, like you originally billed them
People can pick quests they enjoy instead of being forced to do everything
Turbine can hand-select quests to be Comm-droppers, helping them push certain packs

CONS:
...none? I'm sure there's one, since this isn't the system being used, so it must have some glaring flaw....?

[sirgog]

The sagas are:

- Illlogical collections of quests (in many cases). If you don't have a list handy, you can't work out what you are meant to do.
- Ignore much of DDO's older content, which is mostly higher quality than the newer stuff
- Group together quests of wildly inconsistent difficulty, which is not a good idea. Most high level players can contribute well to a run of EE House of Rusted Blades; less than a quarter can contribute well to an EE Servants of the Overlord or EE Belly of the Beast. Another saga has Impossible Demands (trivial) and Thrill of the Hunt (much higher level, much harder).
- Group together quests of wildly different levels. Did you think Tangleroot's 4 level spread was bad? Some of the sagas have a 6 level spread.

The idea of them is solid, but the execution is lacking.


Shorter sagas, that do not overlap, and cover a coherent storyline would work much better.

Example:

Epic Zawabi's Revenge:
Any FOUR or FIVE of OOB, Chains, Wiz-King, ADQ1, ADQ2 on Epic difficulties.
- 'True Elite' threshold: 15 points (all five EE). Reward: 25% of a Heroic heart.
- Elite threshold: 12 points (all non-raid on EE, or two on EE and three on EH). Reward: 15% of a Heroic heart.
- Hard threshold: 8 points. Reward: 10% of a Heroic heart.

That's a clear storyline, a group of quests players associate together, and quests that are of similar levels to each other too.


Another example:

Cannith Crisis:
Any THREE to SEVEN of Power Play, Schemes of the Enemy, Blown to Bits, Heroic Master Artificer, Epic Master Artificer, Heroic Lord of Blades, Epic Lord of Blades
- 'True Elite' threshold: 21 points (Raids on both EE and heroic elite, quests on heroic elite). Reward: 40% of a Heroic heart.
- Elite threshold: 19 points (Quests all on heroic elite, raids on heroic elite and epic hard). Reward: 20% of a Heroic heart
- Hard threshold: 13 points (Quests all on heroic elite, raids on heroic normal and epic normal, or just once each on either hard difficulty). Reward: 10% of a Heroic heart

Again, a clear storyline, quests players understand go together, and if you really, really hate Schemes of the Enemy, you can skip it on anything other than the elite settings.




Until sagas are fixed, reincarnation should not be tied to them.

[sirgog]

End Chest Loot =

1 Commendation for EN
2 Commendations for EH
3 Commendations for EE

Make a Heroic Heart cost roughly (# of quests you think appropriate) * 2. Then scale up for Iconic/Epic Hearts

Now the ubers can do EE and get there 50% faster, while the casuals can get there 50% slower.

Clean, elegant, and gosh, you can even do minor tweaks to the turn-in costs over time without having to change the coding for a single thing other than the turn-in dude.

Not to mention you don't punish people for being dead when the quest is completed, like the Sagas currently do.

PROS:
Sagas are now still just extra candy, and not required, like you originally billed them
People can pick quests they enjoy instead of being forced to do everything
Turbine can hand-select quests to be Comm-droppers, helping them push certain packs

CONS:
...none? I'm sure there's one, since this isn't the system being used, so it must have some glaring flaw....?

Noone would run EE under that setup, as anyone that can complete EE will be able to complete EH in less than two thirds of the time (and usually less than one third of the time). Other than that the idea is solid.

[stryder48092]

There's active discussion here at Turbine about the binding status of Commendations of Valor.

This is what we are tentatively moving to for the next Lamannia preview (which is decided days ahead of time, so the conversation is likely to keep moving and Lamannia will be out of date by then):

Heroic True Heart of Wood: Costs 250 Commendations of Valor
Binds to Character on Acquire

This is not what we intend to ship with. However, we need to decide on whether to lower the cost should or change the Commendations to be Bind to Account instead of Character. (Or potentially both, as the exact cost is still under discussion, but for simplicity I'm pretending it's one or the other right now.)

If the Commendations are BtA, we expect that most Commendations will be farmed by level-cap characters and passed to other characters, and that they will be earned much faster than if the Commendations are BtC and earned by lower level characters. We also believe there are legitimate reasons for both choices and why one or the other is better for gameplay or fun, many of which have been expressed by various players recently.

We're of course happy to hear feedback on all aspects of Reincarnation or other upcoming changes, but if you have specific thoughts on whether you'd prefer BtA Commendations or a cheaper price for Heroic True Hearts of Wood, please let us know here in this thread!

Heres what I dont understand, there are 2 sagas level 21-23, one saga levl 24, 1 saga level 21-26, 1 saga level 23-27. 1 saga level 21-27.

You expect, or originally expected people that are tr'ing characters to level 20 to run, at minimum a quest 3 levels above theres (the 2 lvl 21-23 sagas) and at max 7 levels above theres. and honestly expected us to view this as a normal...easy way to level our tr characters that are created strictly for the past life and most likely has sub optimal gear as they are not intended to be end game builds until - you know we're not gonna tr again (in which case we wont need the hhow)
So 1) are these quests arbitrarily given a level to fill different levels up and you think any level 20 character should be able to do them. or:
2) did you expect people to gain 2-5 epic levels before doing a heroic tr(as with the original figures you'd be goin way past level 28 to get the hhow)
3) you figured people would just run 1 or 2 and then decide to buy the heart in the ddo store?

come on give us a legitimate answer because the only one I see is the 3rd.

Now as far as btc or bta I view it should be bta. For some reason you guys feel that if it is BTA then there should be more farming involved than if it was btc, can you give me some sort of logical reasoning to this?

[Magil]

Here You go:
Sentinels of Stormreach - Saga of the Black Tide
Vault of Night - Saga of the Laughing Knives
Demon Sands - Saga of the Djinn Zawabi

I mentioned something like that over here. I know Turbine really wants to push their FR content, but that shouldn't be a reason to exclude Eberron too. Most of the epic Eberron packs should an update like Gianthold did. If we're going to switch systems, we may as well update the rest of the content as well to follow suit.

I'm fine with Commendations of Valor on it's own. But having them exclusive to FR content, and only one Eberron pack doesn't sit well with me.