Raid Completion Counters

[Henky]

- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.

Sorry, but WRONG:

Here is a capture of one of my toons, TR'd him this year, i think it was in january:


All the raids I did with him were in Epic, ALL OF THEM. SEVEN epic von6s, i dont run it on heroic. And if you don't trust me, just check the completions on Against the Demon Queen, both epic, but it show as Heroic, and then check my favor window, it shows Epic Hard. Something is wrong and this will not be corrected? Its not like a really care about that 2 raids, but others do.

- Completions of Epic difficulty non-raid quests that occurred prior to Update 19 Patch 1 are listed as heroic in the completion counts (e.g. Phiarlan Carnival). Completions after U19 Patch 1 will appear in the correct column. This will not be corrected.

And wrong again, sorry. More control+p, first same toon:

Did after U19 but PRE patch 1. Again, check the favor window.

And now, with my suboptimal FvS, YESTERDAY, complete Storm Horns Chain:


It seems that you dont care about the player base, and the player base is the one paying the game.

Just put all completions on the EPIC side, we get NOTHING with this. Just our completions as we had before you messed it.

[Bloodrow]

If this were a billing problem it would have already been fixed. I have 2 accounts that are on my Credit Card and 1 that is Payed as played. In order to make this a priority the the Raiders need to make it hurt where it counts. If I were to freeze my Credit Card and stop playing, and others follow my example, The Coffers would run dry and they would need to be more respectful to the Payer/player. I do not have a problem at this point, But if this is an on going way of getting things done around here, it's a travesty and a suprise that more ppl haven't left. I do know that since I have been online from the late 70's that it's not good idea to get a new game/patch/expansion before it has run it's course for atleast 6 months to address any bugs. This game/patch/expansion was a rush job and we will be paying the price, or will we?

[Stoner81]

Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.

Caught in the Web : Heroic: 31 / Epic : 4

Just thought about this too, I have run most of these apart from maybe 3 or 4 between MoTU and Shadowfell and you say that they should ALL show up in the EPIC side? WHAT UTTER GARBAGE! I was 5 more runs away from my 40th and now thanks to your total and complete incompetence at quality control I have been bent over and royally shafted since I am now 16 runs away!

It is clear that you guys don't give a rats a$$ about your PAYING CUSTOMERS! This is beyond a f****** joke!

Stoner81.

[RTFM]

UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

- The number of heroic completion and epic completions for the Caught in the Web raid are both incorrectly showing as completions from Fall of Truth. We will address this error in an upcoming patch.

I checked against a spreadsheet I have that I track every single run and counter on my toons. The math does not add up from your description above.

I also have toons with NEGATIVE completions. CITW in particular has NEGATIVE heroic completions, and two toons have 20 EPIC completions listed on FOT in which both were not even close to 20 on epic/heroic FOT or CITW.

- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.

Again, this explanation does not match my records of my completions prior to U19, or U19.1. The Math is not correct if I use your explanation for any of the toons. I suggest either you have the wrong assumptions on the error, or there is something mighty fishy going on.

What is really surprising, is that on two toons I finished 20 FOTs the day before update 19, BOTH of those toons still show a correct FOT count, but again the CITW count is random and does not match your description above. Why would both of the FOT counts be correct? Perhaps because they were 20 and it would be flawed to my advantage if in fact they were now 10? Very odd and suspicious.

And one last thing. Why was this even messed with? With the plethora of issues that could of been fixed instead, why choose to change the raid counter mechanism last minute?

Can anyone give an example of this counter error that worked out in their favor shortening the path to 20 completion end list? I somehow doubt it.

[Standal]

Here are my current completions on a toon halfway through level 27.

(Standard): Raid Completions:
Lines of Supply : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 0
The Tracker's Trap : Heroic: 4 / Epic : 0
Breaking the Ranks : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 0
A Break In the Ice : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 0
What Goes Up : Heroic: 5 / Epic : 0
Friends in Low Places : Heroic: 2 / Epic : 0
A Lesson in Deception : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 0
Army of Shadow : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 0
Through a Mirror Darkly : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Thrill of the Hunt : Heroic: 2 / Epic : 0
The Fall of Truth : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 9
Menace of the Underdark: The Queen of the Demonweb : Heroic: 8 / Epic : 0
Menace of the Underdark: City of Portals : Heroic: 4 / Epic : 0
Menace of the Underdark: The Darkening : Heroic: 5 / Epic : 0
Caught in the Web : Heroic: -2 / Epic : 9
The Lord of Blades : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Master Artificer : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Reign of Madness : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Harbinger of Madness : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Attack on Stormreach : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Chronoscope : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Last Stand : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
Into the Deep : Heroic: 2 / Epic : 0
The Claw of Vulkoor : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
Fathom the Depths : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Maleficent Cabal : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Sentinels of Stormreach : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Tide Turns : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Dreaming Dark : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Mindsunder : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Sharn Syndicate : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Devil You Know : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Stealer of Souls : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Prove Your Worth : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Legend of Two-Toed Tobias : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Ghost of a Chance : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
A Vision of Destruction : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Hound of Xoriat : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Thirteenth Eclipse : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 0
Accursed Ascension : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Reaver's Fate : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
Against the Demon Queen : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Twilight Forge : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Vault of Night : Heroic: 6 / Epic : 1
Return to Delera's Tomb : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Abandoned Excavation : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
Archbishop's Daughter : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
Cult of the Six : Heroic: 2 / Epic : 0
Assault on Splinterskull : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Lost Seekers : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Seal of Shan-To-Kor : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Fire Caves : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Garl's Tomb : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Scoundrel's Run : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0

All of the new quests show as heroic. This character was capped at the second expansion and hasn't run a single heroic quest since then. He's a 4th life TR who was TR'd after MOTU. Von count is not right. I may have run Von 5 for XP, but I don't think so. All of the MOTU stuff was run exclusively on epic. Not sure how much I care about the non-raid stuff, but my raid counters aside from FOT are all jacked up.

Edit: Also, some of the Wheloon and Storm Horn quests were run after the patch, so epic completions are still not working right.

[barecm]

Set all the affected raid timers to -1 and make 0 have a 20th type list. Done.

[djl]

To make matters worse, Turbine completely misdiagnosed the problem, and their explanation has since been easily refuted by numerous players. That makes them look truly incompetent, and the fact that they have not responded since that mouthful of BS shows they really don't care.

Newsflash: Shadowfell was a resounding dud. Between the lack of a new raid, the significantly reduced amount of permutations in randomgen loot, and the lackluster nature of the named items, many people find the expansion to be fairly uninteresting, scenery porn aside. As a result, a WEEK after its release the LFM panel is as dead as before at Cap and people are back to TRing.

Activity in this game has been steadily declining, and many had hopes that the expansion would renew some of it. It didn't. You don't have a leg to stand on, here, Turbine. Fixing this needs to be your TOP priority because you don't have the leeway to spare losing a few hundred players just because you are too lazy to fix a mess that you created.

[bazooka99]

That's not a problem to avoid. There is no benefit for epic completions over heroic completions when it comes to 20th lists. There is only one 20th list per raid, and it's wholly irrelevant whether your 20 completions were all heroic, all epic, or some combination. No matter what you still get the same 20th list.

There is no possible benefit from a heroic-only player getting credit for epic runs. None.

This change just cost everyone who raids some of their completions toward their next 20th list. For no reason whatsoever, it turns out, because the 20th lists haven't changed.

The appropriate remedy is to give us our completion counters for both heroic and epic so that we can continue on toward our 20ths whichever way we prefer. I know I for one can't imagine running heroic VON5/6 when epic gives you all that tasty xp, so I'd hate to see all the credit given to heroic instead of epic. By the same token, someone else who could only handle heroic shouldn't be forced to run epic.

Give us both. Start us off with out current actual counter applied to both heroic and epic. The worst that happens is somebody gets an easier shot at a second 20th list. So what? That's the price you pay for poorly thought out systems changes during a rushed-out patch.

Oh, I agree, but Turbine seems to think this is a problem. What I said was just a compromise in which we don't lose any of our completions (as in the current system), nor do we gain any (because somehow, the latter is unacceptable).

[alvarego]

The Vault of Night : Heroic: 24 / Epic : 1

This is not serious, really ... once again ... pffft, can't even figure out how you staff guys again and again and again and again make it wrong and still time after time get to anger an already completely bored of wrongdoings playerbase.

Once again, shame.

[bazooka99]

*cough*

Guild decay.

*cough*

Stoner81.

At least with guild decay it was well-understood you would lose guild renown over time.

At least when ship amenities were lost Turbine made an attempt to reimburse people.

If Turbine leaves this system as is, this is (as far as I know) completely new territory for them (assuming they don't take away all our ED xp next update). People spend real money on a product under the assumption they won't lose it, yet get no forewarning that they'll lose what they purchased, and no reimbursement.

[Lanadazia]

The Vault of Night : Heroic: 24 / Epic : 1

This is not serious, really ... once again ... pffft, can't even figure out how you staff guys again and again and again and again make it wrong and still time after time get to anger an already completely bored of wrongdoings playerbase.

Once again, shame.

same problem here
i raid von6 on epic only, since i need the base items AND the shard.
i don't know anyone doing it on heroic.
its one of the older raids that are still well run on epic on argonessen.

my quest completion says:

The Vault of Night : Heroic: 6 / Epic : 2

UPDATE:
- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.

so all the completions i've done after u14 will be counted right?
all completions are done in the past 2 months so you will change it to Heroic: 0 / Epic : 8 ??

please more info!


and please! please! please!
give us the opportunity to remove stuff from the /quest completions
its a really long list of quests, that do not belong into a RAID completion list, as it titles itself!
i don't wanna see any three barrel cove quests or red fens quests in my raid completions and have to search out the actual raids!
or at least let us change the order in a way we want.

[BinyaminTsadik]

Are you sure?

Caught in the Web : Heroic: -4 / Epic : 7

(what is -4?)

[oberon131313]

To add insult to injury I ran EH CITW with him after that and he pulled the Twilight staff which wasn't even upgraded even though it was an EH run.

CiTW stuff doesn't drop upgraded based on difficulty. Your perceived injury is no one's fault but your own.

[samthedagger]

I am not gonna hurl tons of Turbine hate, but I would like to voice my frustrations. My guild has a lot of toons who are practically unavailable to raid because they were on 19th completions and they are not sure if they are going to get their rewards. As the problem continues to go unfixed, misdiagnosed, and uncorrected, we are losing the pool of characters available to raid with us on guild raid nights and the problem is just getting worse.

Please fix this bug post-haste. It needs to have top-priority. Do not wait until Patch 2. Fix it and put it up as a hotfix.

[MysticElaine]

To add my name to the list of people that have been shafted.I am, sorry WAS, 5 runs shy of my 40th completion. Now I am 33 heroic/2 epic. I am 100% positive that all my runs after my 20th run were epic.My CITW are also borked, but since I know this is going to be fixed or taken care of by a gm, I'm not too worried about being close to my list. But I will be taking lots of screen shots.

[djl]

This silence is not appreciated.

It would be nice to hear some good news, like "We are working on fixing the root issue and in the mean time, we will do XYZ to compensate for the erroneous reports in raid completions."

[eonfreon]

Well, I'd really like to know what they were thinking when they added this split timer into the game. It seems to me, even if it had worked out perfectly with no bugs, it would have still screwed some people over.

Unless I'm thinking about it wrong. But if someone had done 10 Von Raids while in Heroic levels and then they did 9 Von Raids in Epic, that the counter would now split the completions as 10/9 instead of it being 19. So instead of being one away from a 20th list, he would be at least 10 or 11 away, even if everything had gone according to plan.

Or am I misunderstanding what was done?

[NaturalHazard]

For at least two of my toons, the /quest completions lists a huge number of heroic completions of Vault of Night and Against the Demon Queen although I completed most of them between U14 and U19 on epic difficulty. Should I bug report this or will this be fixed in the upcoming patch?

Edit: Ninja'd by someone who has the same problem.

I only ran 1-2 von's and dq2's at heroic level because I leveled so fast, but why does my count show 17 heroic vons and only 1 epic? lol on our server you hardly ever see people running heroic level von when they are over leveled so I call bs on that count same with the dq2. And this is just on one toon, all the others got screwed up counts I hope it gets fixed with the upcoming patch. *sigh*

[Keltarrin]

Well, I'd really like to know what they were thinking when they added this split timer into the game. It seems to me, even if it had worked out perfectly with no bugs, it would have still screwed some people over.

Unless I'm thinking about it wrong. But if someone had done 10 Von Raids while in Heroic levels and then they did 9 Von Raids in Epic, that the counter would now split the completions as 10/9 instead of it being 19. So instead of being one away from a 20th list, he would be at least 10 or 11 away, even if everything had gone according to plan.

Or am I misunderstanding what was done?

It seems fairly obvious to me what they were thinking. Force Raiders to raid more often necessitating more purchases from the cash shop. Raid timers, SP potions, healing items, loot gems, and whatever else they think they can peddle.

Mind you, Tolero, I'm not including you as part of "they". I'm well aware that these kinds of decisions are way above your pay grade and you're merely the messenger.

[EllisDee37]

It seems to me, even if it had worked out perfectly with no bugs, it would have still screwed some people over.

Agreed.