It is time to put a timer on mana pot usage

[gradeyshane]

How many people would have their gameplay negatively affected by a 15 minute cooldown on mana potions?

Only mana potions, please don't digress into all the other things cooldowns could be added to. The thread is about mana potions.

I dont know but I DO know who would NEVER buy another stack of potions from the store (you know the place that DDO gets money to pay for your game for those who have decided this is and only should be a free to play game) ..that would be me. I'd NEVER pay for another stack of potions from the store with a 15 minute timer.

So really, odds are DDO isnt going to cut off a revenue stream to satiesfy the loud I want attention crowd. So the only thing that will happen is that those free potions you get out of boxes? Yeah, maybe those could have a timer and then you can ONLY buy potions without a timer from the DDO store. Now that is a fine idea..in terms of implementing a new revenue stream for the company. Hell, now that I've thought about it, this thread was probably started by DDO staff in order to get us used to that idea.

I get it now, here I was thinking you were all just too stupid to exhale after inhalation...but now I get it. You DDO guys are so slick!

[Uma-Quixote]

And for this I got negative feed back.... I suppose the truth can hurt.

I always take neg reps as an indicator of being right.....

[Anihsod]

I always take neg reps as an indicator of being right.....

i'm confused then .. +1 ? ... or neg rep to indicate you are right?

[redoubt]

Who's proposing a 15 minute cooldown? The OP said 1 minute, the highest proposed time was 5 minutes on elite.

15 minutes is a really long time. I threw out the question to see what kind of impact a long timer would have...

So far it only impacts EE CITW where the game still mana "if you are in the wrong place".

[redoubt]

Every last person that uses SP potions, and every last person that relies on anybody else that plays a spellcaster at any time to cast spells.

How many do you use per quest? You drink one every ______ minutes?

I and my guild rarely use any mana pots. Sometimes one or two on a tough EE. I doubt a 15 min timer would affect me (unless in CITW EE, i've not run it so I have to trust others that they are needed there.)

So far only one person has said, "me, it would affect me". And that was only on a really hard quest. Who does it actually affect?

[Archangel666]

How many do you use per quest? You drink one every ______ minutes?

I and my guild rarely use any mana pots. Sometimes one or two on a tough EE. I doubt a 15 min timer would affect me (unless in CITW EE, i've not run it so I have to trust others that they are needed there.)

So far only one person has said, "me, it would affect me". And that was only on a really hard quest. Who does it actually affect?

Lets flip the question on it's head though and ask:

Who does the current system affect?

For myself, I rarely drink pots but that's just me, but knowing that someone out there who is richer than me in real life and has more disposable income is using store bought pots doesn't bother me in the slightest.

The game ain't balanced around using pots so those using them may have an easier time, but so what?

And before anyone mentions Caught in the Web's SP Drain mechanic, I would remind them that we're talking about the same Raid that lets you recall out, go to a Tavern and for 50 ish plat get back your entire Spell Point pool (Maybe 100 Plat if you have a lot of SP) and then re-enter. Re-entry penalty? Who does Caught in the web primarily for xp?

[Vint]

Who does it actually affect?

We would start to see the screening process again to get into raids or content. If I cant guzzle pots to keep up the (incompetent people) in the party, then I will trim the fat and only go with people that I know have

heal amp
Self heals
damage mitigation
dr breakers
knowledge of the quest

It will not take many wipes in EE content for this to catch on. Like it or not, this will happen again and you will be back to segregation of "good and bad" players.

[mobrien316]

How many do you use per quest? You drink one every ______ minutes?

I and my guild rarely use any mana pots. Sometimes one or two on a tough EE. I doubt a 15 min timer would affect me (unless in CITW EE, i've not run it so I have to trust others that they are needed there.)

So far only one person has said, "me, it would affect me". And that was only on a really hard quest. Who does it actually affect?

It would affect me. On occasion I use multiple pots in a quest or raid.


Why should I not be able to do that with the pots that I either bought from the store, found in chests, or bought on the AH? Because somebody else doesn't want to drink pots? Why should I not be able to do what I want with my stuff because someone else doesn't want the option to do the same?


If you think mana pots are overpowered, or an easy button, or "pay to win", or DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM, then don't use them. No one is forcing you to. But just like you wouldn't like it if you were forced to play the way other people want to play, you shouldn't force other people to play the way you want to play.

It really is pretty simple. If you think "X" is not something you want to use, don't use it. Please don't presume to dictate to the rest of the DDO universe based on your own personal preferences.

[smatt]

How many do you use per quest? You drink one every ______ minutes?

I and my guild rarely use any mana pots. Sometimes one or two on a tough EE. I doubt a 15 min timer would affect me (unless in CITW EE, i've not run it so I have to trust others that they are needed there.)

So far only one person has said, "me, it would affect me". And that was only on a really hard quest. Who does it actually affect?

It would affect me.... I certainly use more pots to level up blue bars than I do in epics.. But I do use them... More out of laziness and conviencance than anything. Do I "need" them... Rarely... Do I want to have the option, yes I do.... Do I care what some self-proclaimed uber thinks, not really no.... Uber I am not, but a very seasoned vet with right at 6 years and 3 days of almost everyday continual DDO play I am...

I recognize the arguement that Matt and Chai as well as the others are trying to make. That unlimited pot use creates a situation where new players don't learn to play their toons correctly.. But what is playing correctly? It's most certainly not how the former think they should be played. It's hwo each individual WANTS to play....

IMO, it's a stupid idea...

[Ganak]

While I would like to see such a limit imposed on store pots, realistically I would settle for all spell point pots.

/signed

[Aashrym]

The amount of players who actually drink sp potions continously is extremely small.

The interesting thing about that comment, since it keeps coming back up, is if the number of chuggers is extremely small that would make the store revenue really small too. Those go hand in hand. If the revenue stream is really there and significant a lot more players are doing it that we're admitting to.

[Chaos000]

I'm ok with allowing players to pay turbine points at the end of each month to "vote" for this type of change. Money where your mouth is so to speak. Whichever side of the argument puts down more wins. like a "pay to balance" or "pay to win" either way it's more money in turbine's pocket.

[Qhualor]

And before anyone mentions Caught in the Web's SP Drain mechanic, I would remind them that we're talking about the same Raid that lets you recall out, go to a Tavern and for 50 ish plat get back your entire Spell Point pool (Maybe 100 Plat if you have a lot of SP) and then re-enter. Re-entry penalty? Who does Caught in the web primarily for xp?

ive never run CITW, so i wouldnt know this, but really!? part of the raid mechanic is mana draining, but you can recall, get sp back and re-enter the raid? thats just dumb and bad design.

[Masterspud]

Much like this thread...

[Nickademus42]

And before anyone mentions Caught in the Web's SP Drain mechanic, I would remind them that we're talking about the same Raid that lets you recall out, go to a Tavern and for 50 ish plat get back your entire Spell Point pool (Maybe 100 Plat if you have a lot of SP) and then re-enter. Re-entry penalty? Who does Caught in the web primarily for xp?

ive never run CITW, so i wouldnt know this, but really!? part of the raid mechanic is mana draining, but you can recall, get sp back and re-enter the raid? thats just dumb and bad design.

Easier to drop party, pop into Sschindylryn, and use the shrine next to the portal. Then just pop back out, rejoin and re-enter. Fast and free.

[Drekisen]

Sometimes I wonder about such radical changes being proposed.

Is it really about balance, is it really just a person who more than has the option to make it this way for themselves and is too afraid to be an individual, or is it someone who is afraid of anyone who does not think like them?

Probably in most cases some combination of the three...but I really am getting annoyed with the radicals who insist it is all about game balance....give it up already.

[zwiebelring]

Can someone please call someone else a Nazi or insult others differently so this ridiculous thread is closed already?

And devs, please please give the OP and others, who agree with him, timers on their pots, even metamagic feats, but leave others alone.

[Missing_Minds]

The interesting thing about that comment, since it keeps coming back up, is if the number of chuggers is extremely small that would make the store revenue really small too. Those go hand in hand. If the revenue stream is really there and significant a lot more players are doing it that we're admitting to.

Consider there are store bought and there are in game farmed.

If we ponder, and be generous that most post drinkers will be healers, lets just say this for sake of easy numbers.

50% of drinkers use store, 50% use in game.
75% of drinkers are healers, 25% are blasters.

How about VIPs that get a constant stipend of points? Shall we say that 40% of players are VIP?

So out of our original 100% of drinking players, only 22.5% are buying them out of the store via their wallet. We didn't even touch the rate at which they are drunk.
We can further shrink the idea of this supposedly large number if we bother to make more assumptions of how many players are active casters (I am not including rangers, paladins, fighters, barb, etc. Artis and bards are included.) vs. non casters that are being played.
Also add in level ranges. How many pots do you actually bother drinking in low levels vs high vs. epics?

I honestly don't think we are looking at a huge number of people buying out of the store and drinking, and I think I was being very generous with made up numbers for this supposition.

I stated it before that I am against further timers being put on pots. The other games that have such timers put on pots also allow their characters complete regeneration of hit points/spell points after any fight, let alone regen during the fight. This game does not.
If you want to up your game, then find other like minded people.

[MrkGrismer]

How many do you use per quest? You drink one every ______ minutes?

I and my guild rarely use any mana pots. Sometimes one or two on a tough EE. I doubt a 15 min timer would affect me (unless in CITW EE, i've not run it so I have to trust others that they are needed there.)

So far only one person has said, "me, it would affect me". And that was only on a really hard quest. Who does it actually affect?

I almost never use them, and even rarer is the time when I use store bought ones. I have something like 10 sitting on my druid right now (not store bought). But when i do decide to use one, it usually isn't one that I want to use, but two or three, because if I decide I need to use them for a situation it is usually because I really could use the entire blue bar back.

But having a 15 minute timer on them would effect me negatively as I would be less inclined to try more challenging content if I felt I couldn't lean on that crutch if I totally screwed up. It would negatively effect people that invite my cleric to do quests with them because I would be less inclined to accept if the quest was more challenging and I couldn't use that crutch to 'save the day' if things went south despite a good attempt by the group. As it is, I pretty much 'auto-decline' invites on my cleric for elite quests at level from strangers because I am pretty sure an elite at-level run with a bunch of strangers that have never played with each other is not going to go smoothly.

You see, it isn't so much do I use them a lot, as whether or not I have the option to use them in certain situations. If it will be store bought ones than the situation has to warrant me spending real money to pull a quest out of the crapper, rather than just a release and re-enter (or reset).

[MrkGrismer]

ive never run CITW, so i wouldnt know this, but really!? part of the raid mechanic is mana draining, but you can recall, get sp back and re-enter the raid? thats just dumb and bad design.

Part of the raid mechanic is an SP drain attack that is meant to teach people with blue bars not to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. It is meant as a punishment for not playing the raid 'properly' and apparently it only warrants - at its worst - a 'time out'

Shroud phase 4 has a mechanic where if you die you have to wait until the phase is over before you can be raised. Again, just another form of 'time out'.