It is time to put a timer on mana pot usage

[tralfaz81]

/signed

Almost all the more powerful melee feats have timers on them. We're limited to 20 seconds, five times a rest, with a massive cool down inbetween activation. Casters are really just limited by their blue bar.

[Sonos]

/signed

Almost all the more powerful melee feats have timers on them. We're limited to 20 seconds, five times a rest, with a massive cool down inbetween activation. Casters are really just limited by their blue bar.

Just limited by the blue bar... just. Why do people in this thread keep referring to melee timers? THERE IS NO TIMER ON WHACKING OR PUNCHING THINGS! How often do I sit and refresh clickies on my Monk? Not a whole hell of a lot, so please stop saying an orange is an apple folks. There are some, albeit weak, arguments that are far more reasonable than comparing a blue bar to melee clickies.

Sorry, had to get that out there.

[Postumus]

This game is too easy. 4 or 5 years ago DDO was so much more difficult. If you the devs are opposed to this on the normal or hard difficulties at least consider it for the elite difficulty. Thanks for striving to improve the game play.

You're soloing EE CiTW now? Dude, that's pretty impressive.

Because the last few posts you were saying you pretty much stuck to EH - for everything.

[Postumus]

The issue with this is it is alot of the same people who support P2W fully who also complain about how 80% of the PUG population sucks, which is a direct contradiction.

I see the opposite on these forums, so I'm not sure where you get your stats. I'm guessing from thin air though.

[NancyD]

When the path-of-least-resistance learning curve for playing a game = keep buying moar mana potions, the expectation that people will become better players cannot be a reality as well.

I disagree. It just as likely lets you, if yiu are undergeared but raw talent, run with a better class of player and learn more faster, and thus get off of pots (when You want to) sooner.

I disagree with people trying to micromanage other toons. I as a healer often see people try to do that to distract from some embarrassment in their play.

Recently I ran an elite TOD where the FVS kiter hopped on stage to help heal. Even before everyone was dead -- I was caught by surprise by this remarkable turn of events -- one of his guildies tyoed "Nancy wasn't healing." Lol, um, I was until they kited the shadows onto stage and died, d'oh. Oh, and the guy who made this observation? He had died at the outset of Part II by somehow being out of the heal radius and getting nipped by a shadow. I had actually rezzed him, which caused the rest of the party's red bars to dip for a second, alarming the FVS, and caused the aforesaid amusing chain of events. Although why the FVS had to be on stage to heal on stage, I cannot explain. It was amusing.

It is, in my experience, often the guilty who have free advice for the healers. It is often the mediocre who micromanage others. Really good players just rock it out. That pally in TOD who was typing out blame for others, that's the one you wanna watch. If that becomes a pattern, avoid.

Another thing. Lag. Pots can't be on timer until lag is on timer!

[goodspeed]

They're right we need more timers. First up 5 minutes on all sp and HP pots including the silver flame ones.

Next barbs hella cleaving everything is still OP. So lets slap a 3 minute timer on each of those. And no one should be able to rage for like a half hour, so put a 8 minute timer on rage use per.

Also no one should be able to keep going as further stacking rages tear their body and muscles apart. So put a 3 minute timer on all frenzy rages.

Same goes for those kensei to. No one should really be able to whip at the speed of light continuously. Lets increase action boost timers.

And wizards technically forget a spell after it's been cast. They then have to take the time to re memorize the spells they wish to take with them. So whats up with all this hella sexual harassment finger spells and wails, and PK's? Ya lets put say a 5 minute timer on arcane spells.

I'm sure theirs some other things that need some timing to. Oh ya! Lets make haste age the melee for a duration of time where their body feels the effects and slows down.

[Hordo]

It is just high time the devs did this. I would suggest a one minute timer before a player can drink another mana pot. I do not have any problem with failing more quests because quite frankly if I have to drink mana pots to beat a quest I do not deserve to beat the quest. Failing quests just makes the victories that much more sweet and encourages higher quality game play. There are no mana pots in D&D.

This game is too easy. 4 or 5 years ago DDO was so much more difficult. If you the devs are opposed to this on the normal or hard difficulties at least consider it for the elite difficulty. Thanks for striving to improve the game play.

Ok, Norg, you know I love you, but this is one suggestion I cannot even see a need for. Granted, I've only done CITW twice on my cleric but used only 2 mana pots in there. I had expected much more after hearing the "sky is falling" previews, but only 2 used and we had 1 other healer and a bard.

Perhaps, it has changed since I last ran it (it was just after U15 dropped) as I've been TRing/levelling lately. I remember the hubbub with eLoB back in the day...still not chugged more than 5 in there.

And don't even try they "you have to be alive to drink mana pots" as you, and most of the smart-alecs who would normally be very correct well know that I actually don't suck on my Cleric and am a fair to decent healer. I just don't see how putting a timer on a mana pot would do anything but discourage the inexperienced end-game healer. Let them have the emergency parachute the mana pots represent since no experienced cleric is going to need more than just a few in all but the most obvious-train-wreck-PUGs.

tl;dr
Don't presume to tell me how to play my toon and I will give you the same courtesy.

[NancyD]

(1)I actually don't suck on my Cleric and am a fair to decent healer. ...
(2) Don't presume to tell me how to play my toon and I will give you the same courtesy.

1. Really? Let's duo something, I wanna see...


2. Well, we all judge each other's play. That is a little heavy in tone, still. I think Norg can presume with the best of y'all. The issue isn't whether he has judged, for excessive reliance on pots may well cover play weaknesses, but whether it is cool to like publicly judge. I have opinions on best play, but like I figure any player's individual judgments aren't thread worthy. That is why I never started a thread called: "permadeath: are you SERIOUS?"

[Tiseria]

This thread sucks.

[gallantian]

This thread sucks.

LOL

Ladies and Gentleman, the thread has a winner!

[Qhualor]

whats with the "dont tell me how to play my character"? dont we tell players on here how to play all the time?

"be self sufficient"
"bring dr breakers"
"help out your teammate"
"learn to play"
"build your character like <this>"

if you read between the lines, i understand what the OP is trying to say. only part that would be a problem is the timer on mana pots. its a big p2w cash crop for Turbine so they wont limit them like that. remember, since a lot of people like to compare DDO to pnp, time was a big part of the game.

[Kmnh]

It's not unlimited sp that breaks casters, it's the insane overpowered implementation of the quicken spell feat.

In PnP, Quicken Spell raises the spell level by 4 and you can't quicken level 6 or higher spells. In DDO it costs 10 sp and there is no spell level limitation.

The usual solution to beat content you dnt have the skill for is to brute force it, spamming quickened heal/reconstruct/mass cure until the encounter is over. Nerf quicken, and this "strategy" won't work anymore.

[Wipey]

Go on, start creating no blue bar groups, you will see how much fun 90 percent of melee players will have.
Cause everytime you look at the lfm panel, there's never a group waiting for another melee. It's always hjealzor or omgineedepicCC.

[User164]

Just limited by the blue bar... just. Why do people in this thread keep referring to melee timers? THERE IS NO TIMER ON WHACKING OR PUNCHING THINGS! How often do I sit and refresh clickies on my Monk? Not a whole hell of a lot, so please stop saying an orange is an apple folks. There are some, albeit weak, arguments that are far more reasonable than comparing a blue bar to melee clickies.

Sorry, had to get that out there.

Good point! how about And I believe it would only be fair, if all fighters had endurance points vice spell points and every time they attacked with their weapons, they used points, when they run out of points they are “tired” and can no longer attack. Of course they would also have endurance point pots that take up space in back pack, cost gold/tp and so on. It is a win win for everyone.

[Hordo]

I disagree. It just as likely lets you, if yiu are undergeared but raw talent, run with a better class of player and learn more faster, and thus get off of pots (when You want to) sooner.

I disagree with people trying to micromanage other toons. I as a healer often see people try to do that to distract from some embarrassment in their play.

Could you list some of these good players so that I can put my pots away and run behind them for xp?

Sorry, Gunga, but Nancy says you and Cloey aren't as good a class of player for me to run with...gonna have to give you two the pink slip and find some real, solid players.

[GermanicusMaximus]

LOL

Ladies and Gentleman, the thread has a winner!

I have to agree, but it did give Chai a chance to get his daily P2W whine on the books, so he can pretend to not be a fanboi.

[legendlore]

Sorry but all characters can purchase an easy button, its called rest shrines and you can buy them at the store too. I don't agree with it but you can!

Rest shrines can't be used in raids or while you are in combat (so they already have built in limiters, but pots don't), they also aren't acquired frequently in game.

[GermanicusMaximus]

Go on, start creating no blue bar groups, you will see how much fun 90 percent of melee players will have.
Cause everytime you look at the lfm panel, there's never a group waiting for another melee. It's always hjealzor or omgineedepicCC.

The fundamental rule of this game is that most people are lazy. That's why we have such a tremendous glut of melee toons, even though you can hardly make it through a single page of forums threads without some whiny "OMG, casters need to be nerfed! Think of the melee!" thread.

If melee were indeed hard to play and under powered, you'd see as many melee toons in this game as you do bards. Instead, what happens is every bad player rolls a melee toon, and when it turns out to be a steaming pile of dung, he gets on the forum and crafts the Melee Whine of the Day.

If casters were indeed grossly overpowered, minimal effort toons, all the people who lack the game skill to play even a melee toon would be on the forums talking about what boy boy casters they are.

All of this "buff the melee, nerf the caster" ranting might be acceptable, if melee players would at least contribute enough coin to make DDO viable. Instead, Turbine is laying people off because the game the melee whiners talked the devs into creating can't generate enough revenue to keep people employed.

No matter how you slice it, the "poor little melee" agenda is a complete failure. More responsible people would be smart enough to bury it and move on. The fact that it lives on forever says a lot about the player community that Turbine has crafted for itself. Sometimes, you get exactly what you deserve.

[WruntJunior]

Rest shrines can't be used in raids or while you are in combat (so they already have built in limiters, but pots don't), they also aren't acquired frequently in game.

I'm sorry, I acquire rest shrines (sometimes multiples) in nearly EVERY quest, including multiple raids. The ones from the store, strangely, can't be used in raids, but the ones found in game can. >_>

[Chai]

I disagree. It just as likely lets you, if yiu are undergeared but raw talent, run with a better class of player and learn more faster, and thus get off of pots (when You want to) sooner.

I disagree with people trying to micromanage other toons. I as a healer often see people try to do that to distract from some embarrassment in their play.

Recently I ran an elite TOD where the FVS kiter hopped on stage to help heal. Even before everyone was dead -- I was caught by surprise by this remarkable turn of events -- one of his guildies tyoed "Nancy wasn't healing." Lol, um, I was until they kited the shadows onto stage and died, d'oh. Oh, and the guy who made this observation? He had died at the outset of Part II by somehow being out of the heal radius and getting nipped by a shadow. I had actually rezzed him, which caused the rest of the party's red bars to dip for a second, alarming the FVS, and caused the aforesaid amusing chain of events. Although why the FVS had to be on stage to heal on stage, I cannot explain. It was amusing.

It is, in my experience, often the guilty who have free advice for the healers. It is often the mediocre who micromanage others. Really good players just rock it out. That pally in TOD who was typing out blame for others, that's the one you wanna watch. If that becomes a pattern, avoid.

Another thing. Lag. Pots can't be on timer until lag is on timer!

We need to stop and smell the P2W easy button here. Mana potions have become the rule and not the exception nowdays. The people who are trying to micromanage how YOU play YOUR CHARACTER, are those who fully expect you to have mana potions, and guzzle them in order to bail their incompetant backsides out of a fail situation that was most likely caused by them in the first place.

Im not trying to micromanage others, Im trying to macromanage the game having an actual learning curve based on playskill instead of a bunch of purchasable easy buttons. The only thing people need to learn right now is which item in the store best circumvents game balance in order to complete quests effort free.

As for your comment about undergeared but raw talent, run with a better class of player and learn more faster, and thus get off of pots (when You want to) sooner, I know quite a few 6 year players who buy mana pots by the ton. I dont know anyone whose trying to "get off their mana pot addiction" who buys alot of them. I do know some people who dont abuse them, but those folks never have abused them.

This right here....

It is, in my experience, often the guilty who have free advice for the healers. It is often the mediocre who micromanage others. Really good players just rock it out.

...Is you literally agreeing with me, even while attempting to disagree with me. Their expectation is that your healer will have a ton of mana pots in store so you can bail them out of whatever sheist storm they cause. If you actually pander to that, you are actually helping them NOT LEARN how to play. Its not their potions they waste in the process, its yours - even better for them eh?