Leading a raid - mana pots reimbursment

[Ghibly]

We all know raids are much more mana consuming after the last updates.

As a consequence it’s not rare in hard/elite ToD, Abbot, hard/elite VoD, LoB, epic Queen and so on, that the divines need to use several mana pots (despite the party set-up is more than good).

When I lead a raid I use to give back the 80% of the consumed mana pots and I never ask for a refund when I use some of them by myself. The result is that I had more than 150 Major before U11, now my stock is 60ish…

On the other hand I noticed that a spontaneous mana pots reimbursement it’s quite rare unless I ask the party to do it (even if, fortunately, there are also illuminated players who always do that, but they are always the same and this is not correct).

Due to the fact that all the players in the group benefit from a raid completion (completion itself, loot) I think it will be a good act that everyone contributes to the party expenses - instead to put the pots in the AH @ 20K plats.

I think that people who put mana pots in the AH have only melee toons (if you have a Divine/Arcane you never sell a mana pot).

This is for you, remember that, when you put a major in the AH, you’re selling it to the healer who will heal you and/or to the caster who will buff you.

Think about it.

[sirgog]

Better solution - run a difficulty level suited to your group. For PUGs that means Normal for most of them, Epic for VON6/eChrono/eDQ

Then you won't use pots unless something unforseen happens.

Most endgame raids have at least one difficulty setting that is easily PUGged without mana potions. LOB, Abbot, epic DQ2 and Master Artificer might use a few, but two of those often drop unbound items that easily make up for pot usage and a third does drop Bloodstones and other unbound goodies that might make up for pots.

[Sleepsalot]

@ the OP I do think this is a nice thing. I rarely run Pugs. But I have been in a few in the Past where it was expected of me to keep a Zerg No Clue Group healed and needless to say I did try but when the SP ran Dry not a single one in the group offered to help instead Whined and Complained when they died.. Sad I did call out 1 time and go back to res them all. Next thing well lets say Full Wipe. I called out dropped group. So My hat is off to your caring way..
Sleeps
+1 for you

[grayham]

I'm with Fiz on this one. I healed a great Echrono the other night, really smooth. Since it was only my 2nd time doing it, I didn't start asking questions when the other cleric started chugging pots, and the raid leader didn't mention anything about a Ddoor or heal rotation. So I drank several pots. No mention of a re-imbursement at the end. Now in case anyone from that particular raid is reading, I'm not angry about it in the least. It would be good to raise awareness though.

It may seem a bit cheesy, but someone on the forums said a while ago "always tip your healers". The same goes for casters too.

[donblas]

What about reimbursing melees for the pots they drink too? Many "I'm not your nanny bot" posts tell melees to "drink a pot" and the melees by drinking them are contributing to the party's success too.

Always tip your tank?

[Ghibly]

Better solution - run a difficulty level suited to your group. For PUGs that means Normal for most of them, Epic for VON6/eChrono/eDQ

I leaded dozens of no pots pugs elite ToD and elite VoD (i.e.) pre U11. Why now I should run them on normal only because devs increased the raids difficulty only to force people to buy pots from the store? Pugging it's a nice thing if you're selective. But now pots are consumed even if the party is composed buy "uber" puggers.

What about reimbursing melees for the pots they drink too? Many "I'm not your nanny bot" posts tell melees to "drink a pot" and the melees by drinking them are contributing to the party's success too.

Always tip your tank?

Lol man are you kidding? You want to compare some healing/remove curses pots to a major mana elixir? Really?
I don't know on your server, but on Thelanis the only pots melees must to use are the remove curse ones...I never see melees drink healing pots during a raid.

[axel15810]

I'm with Fiz on this one. I healed a great Echrono the other night, really smooth. Since it was only my 2nd time doing it, I didn't start asking questions when the other cleric started chugging pots, and the raid leader didn't mention anything about a Ddoor or heal rotation. So I drank several pots. No mention of a re-imbursement at the end. Now in case anyone from that particular raid is reading, I'm not angry about it in the least. It would be good to raise awareness though.

It may seem a bit cheesy, but someone on the forums said a while ago "always tip your healers". The same goes for casters too.

Healed VoD recently with my cleric. Had to drink some pots and didn't get a reimbursement offer. I should have asked for donations of scroll/pots, I'll be sure to next time. I only have 1 toon at cap and am poor. Only have 20 pots built up at the moment.

[sirgog]

I'm with Fiz on this one. I healed a great Echrono the other night, really smooth. Since it was only my 2nd time doing it, I didn't start asking questions when the other cleric started chugging pots, and the raid leader didn't mention anything about a Ddoor or heal rotation. So I drank several pots. No mention of a re-imbursement at the end. Now in case anyone from that particular raid is reading, I'm not angry about it in the least. It would be good to raise awareness though.

It may seem a bit cheesy, but someone on the forums said a while ago "always tip your healers". The same goes for casters too.

eChrono really is a raid that is difficult to learn to heal. First/second timers are pretty much always going to use pots there because they don't have the discipline to use no mana in the final fight (except when trash is up or to respond to errors people make). And most of all people need the discipline to leave a person dead that takes unnecessary damage in there.

Usually though when I run that, if anyone uses pots, it's casters in the Bloodplate fight and sometimes CAD.

[Ghibly]

the raid leader didn't mention anything about a Ddoor or heal rotation. So I drank several pots. No mention of a re-imbursement at the end.

Remember that raid leader mate and don't join their raids anymore (and pls PM me his name )

[Blackbird]

What about reimbursing melees for the pots they drink too? Many "I'm not your nanny bot" posts tell melees to "drink a pot" and the melees by drinking them are contributing to the party's success too.

Always tip your tank?

The difference is -- cure pots can be bought at vendors for relatively cheap. Mana pots can only be purchased from the DDO store or on the AH for substantially more per pot than a cure pot. That's a BIG difference. One CSW pot is what - 50 pp? 60 pp? I don't even know. One Major pot on the AH = probably close to 10k plat (I don't buy them off the AH but I think that's about right). Cure pots are a closer comparison to Heal scrolls but those are still much more than a CSW pot (not sure the exact price either, probably 110-140 pp each, I think I get stacks for 11k-14k depending on my haggle). I haven't been in a group in a LONG time that reimbursed Heal scrolls (people used to, a very long time ago, mostly when people also still used CSW wands at cap and reimbursed those too).

I always try to remember to ask about pots. I should be better about it because I play a healer quite often. I usually don't remember to ask if the run is relatively smooth. It has also been my experience that most groups don't ask about pot count. I also usually don't ask for pot reimbursement if I'm with friends/channel and I'm healing (which is almost the only time I will heal a raid anymore).

So, to go to your ultimate question -- there is a big difference between asking someone to drink a 60pp pot which is readily available, and a 10k pot, which is not easily available.

[Ghibly]

I should have asked for donations of scroll/pots, I'll be sure to next time. I only have 1 toon at cap and am poor. Only have 20 pots built up at the moment.

And this is very sad man. The divine role is, often, a boring (even if crucial) role and it's extremely sad you have to panhanlde like a beggar, after a raid you contributed to succed.

[Ghibly]

I haven't been in a group in a LONG time that reimbursed Heal scrolls (people used to, a very long time ago, mostly when people also still used CSW wands at cap and reimbursed those too).

Forgot this important thing too

[Miacorva]

Having 3 divines and a couple of arcanes I have to agree.

If I have been a little lazy and over healed and subsequently used a pot I will not even bother, but if the group was struggling and those extra sp's were the tipping point between success and fail then I would like to see more parties 'tipping' their divines/arcanes.

To often I see the raid end and everyone scatter to the winds only for one or two to stay behind and help give back to the healer that just blew their pot reserves pulling the group through.

[Syllph]

A solution if you pug often and nobody is helping is have a buy-in. Everyone who joins passes you a major pot and you then distribute them to wiz/fvs/cleric/sorc as needed.

Not the most elegant solution but it works.

Side Note: Be careful thinking pots are a good solution. It's my experience that if you're using too many pots you don't know the raid well enough/ don't have a solid group. Pots are a crutch. Case in point if you've seen any of my posts you'll realize I'm a terrible cleric, yesterday evening I ran a Hard Shroud and used one pot (and that was my fault for keeping maximize spammed.) Now I'm bad at healing -really- and only one pot was used. Perhaps shroud isn't the best example but hopefully it serves as some kind of point.

[Superspeed_Hi5]

What about reimbursing melees for the pots they drink too? Many "I'm not your nanny bot" posts tell melees to "drink a pot" and the melees by drinking them are contributing to the party's success too.

Always tip your tank?

I seriously hope this is a sarcastic post. EVERYONE should buy heal pots. Healers, Melee, arcanes all should have those pots ready and toolbarred so that they can chug if the fit hits the shan. Now until Mana pots are available at the local vendor (not bloody likely) there is no comparrison.

[PNellesen]

My melees have been playing long enough now that they each have maybe 10 Majors in their possession, and I always make sure to offer one to each healer after every tough raid. Unfortunately, I'm usually the only one who does (at least the only one in party chat), and I seldom see the raid leader ask either. Having played 3 clerics to cap now (on 2 different servers) I'm painfully aware of the occasional need to drink a pot or two when a raid goes south, and though I usually decline offers of reimbursement, it's nice to know someone cares

[donblas]

I seriously hope this is a sarcastic post. .

Ding! Correct - you win! LOL

Although it was prompted by the recent rush of divines and arcanes who say that they don't buff or heal - that melees must do it themselves. If it's thought that in quests where casters do buff and heal they should be reimbursed if they drink pots to help the party complete, then maybe in quests where the "my blue bar is not yours" casters demand that the melees buff and heal themselves and those melees have to drink pots to help the party complete, maybe the melees should be at least thanked for the expenses they incurred.

And I do know that one cure potion is less expensive than one major, but I wonder what the cost of an 800HP barb self healing and buffing through a raid via pot would be (as well as repairs from damage taken in melee).

[itraylor]

I have a Favored Soul, Wizard, Paladin, and Artificer so I am used to drinking potions and rarely being reimbursed. I just find threads of folks asking for SP potions odd since just the other week casters were complaining about being asked to pass haste and other buffs. I am not going to give up my own SP potions so someone cannot buff/heal me. All of my characters are built to self heal, though when my Paladin was a Ranger/Fighter/Barbarian I certainly understand the need to be healed, but I got SF Pots. A better thing to do would be more economical with your SP. I had to respec my Wizard because I burned through too much. On my FvS I use a Torc and two concordant opposition items. On my Paladin, Artificer, and Wizard I use a Torc and one concordant opposition item. Sometimes you have to “torc up”. If the party does not give you time then inform them that when you are out of SP you are out unless they cough up pots, or wait. Bottom line is do unto others. If folks do not want to buff/heal then they can shove it when it comes to asking for pots. You can’t have your cake and eat it.

[Eleia]

I think the game has been around long enough to add mana pots to either the vendors, the crafting system, heck even the challenges. Make it so you can get a stack of 5 for oh I don't know, 1000 of those silly scorpion things. (or just one for that price. Whatever seems reasonable.)

Something that's a pain to do but it doable.

I've seen xp pots in the challenge window and they're dropable and store buyable so it wouldn't be much of a stretch.

When I group, which is rare, I try to pass my pots around. But . . . I usually end up using them myself while I'm soloing. I usually end up just back up scroll healing so the healer doesn't have to chug.

Which brings up a point. It would be less pot expensive if umd builds helps with at least healing. I haven't raided in this game in ages, but most game I raid in have one to two main healers and then at least a back up healer for just that reason.

/shrug. I'm not telling you all how to raid espeically beings I haven't stepped in one in years. Just throwing it out there.

It does still give arcanes the short end of the stick but I can't think of a work around other than giving pots.

[Superspeed_Hi5]

Ding! Correct - you win! LOL

Although it was prompted by the recent rush of divines and arcanes who say that they don't buff or heal - that melees must do it themselves. If it's thought that in quests where casters do buff and heal they should be reimbursed if they drink pots to help the party complete, then maybe in quests where the "my blue bar is not yours" casters demand that the melees buff and heal themselves and those melees have to drink pots to help the party complete, maybe the melees should be at least thanked for the expenses they incurred.

And I do know that one cure potion is less expensive than one major, but I wonder what the cost of an 800HP barb self healing and buffing through a raid via pot would be (as well as repairs from damage taken in melee).

I hear ya as a fighter/monk hybrid (Funk) with way over 500 hp at lvl 16 I am aware of the sheer number of pots needed to be drank to get my hp all the way up. And since I know I will have over 700 hp at 20 closer to 800 I feel the pain as well. Of course I am of the type that if the blue bars dont want to use a miniscule amount of SP for some buffs (honestly how much SP does it take to Blur and GH the whole party) then they can use all of their SP to clear the dungeon for me and I will leisurely stroll to the Chest.