Leading a raid - mana pots reimbursment

[Viisari]

I understand what you mean mate, but my reply is the same. Not always you have the time to wait for the perfect tank, so in some cases a maxdps geared Barbarian is the best for VoD elite and ToD elite, i.e...in this cases a good FVS is more than enough.

Barb is a *horrible* tank for elite vod/tod now no matter how well geared. A human barb with huge healing amp *might* be able to pull it off with limited pot/scroll usage but is still far from being a good tank. Or even what I'd call "a tank".

Seriously, just run hard if you only have a barb or something similiar for tanking, both Suulo and Horoth are shredders on elite these days.

If you suspect that the group cannot complete the highest difficulty setting without resource usage, then why insist on running it on the highest difficulty?

[Khellendros13]

Raids are not always so straightforward at the moment. Lag is really bad in raids worse then it has been in quite sometime and this is per instance. Sometimes you get a good instance and sometimes you do not. This effects resources consumption and then there are strange things like the abbot tile puzzle, etc. Furthermore, with the changes to xp there is overall less interest in raiding which leads to less qualified raid applicants. All of this means is us raid leaders have to adjust.

Agreed. We hit i2049 for Elite VoD 2 nights in a row. Slideshow time. I rarely blame lag for my mistakes, but it is a real problem right now. Seriously need to shut down crafting halls for 1 week and collect data.

[Ghibly]

Barb is a *horrible* tank for elite vod/tod now no matter how well geared. A human barb with huge healing amp *might* be able to pull it off with limited pot/scroll usage but is still far from being a good tank. Or even what I'd call "a tank".

Seriously, just run hard if you only have a barb or something similiar for tanking, both Suulo and Horoth are shredders on elite these days.

If you suspect that the group cannot complete the highest difficulty setting without resource usage, then why insist on running it on the highest difficulty?

I think we've gone OT mate. I didn't start this thread with the intention to declare which is the best tank for what raid.

Morevoer I don't run an elite ToD since U11. And I don't insist on running anythin on the highest difficulty.

In the last months I only leaded "standard" hard ToD, hard Abbot, eChono, eDQ2, eVoN6, 99% of the times in "selected" pugs, some of them with your appreciated company. And happened that, despite the party was good or very good...some pots have been used at the end for different reasons.
You know the pugs you joined were more than good otherwise you won't have joined them correct? So why now we are debating about the quality of my pugs or that I insist on running them on the highest difficulty??
I just wanted to say:

raids are tougher than in the past...often it happens that divines need to drink pots: pls "party members" feel free to offer them some pots back instead to leave the party and left the party leader refund alone

Anyway (OT):

I *used* maxdps Barbs for the 90% of the 40/50ish VoD elite I leaded in the past with ZERO mana problems.

I *used* maxdps Barbs for several elite ToD with ZERO mana probelms too.

Of cours always do exist better tanks . But I don't really think Barbs are horrible tanks.

[Viisari]

And happened that, despite the party was good or very good...some pots have been used at the end for different reasons.

But that's wrong, if they have to use pots they're not good and definately not very good. That, or **** hit the fan which is an entirely different case, stuff can happen, but with good groups that's the exception, not the rule.

You know the pugs you joined were more than good otherwise you won't have joined them correct?

That's also wrong. I join pugs for fun, not because I expect completions or loot. That means I occasionally join groups I already *know* will fail

Anyway (OT):

I *used* maxdps Barbs for the 90% of the 40/50ish VoD elite I leaded in the past with ZERO mana problems.

I *used* maxdps Barbs for several elite ToD with ZERO mana probelms too.

Of cours always do exist better tanks . But I don't really think Barbs are horrible tanks.

Used. Back when the bosses didn't hit like cruising freighters.

Even then barbs weren't good tanks but atleast they were usable. Now if somebody builds barbarians for tanking I'll just go ahead and call them idiots. They're dps that make for decent tanks (for most content, not all) if nothing better is available, but they should never be your first choice.

As to the refunding, I rarely do, but that's mostly because often it's the blue bars or party leaders fault that potions had to be used in the first place. I do hand them out if I feel it's justified, but more often than not I feel that it is not.

That, and my own blue bars have occasional need for the pots.

[Ungood]

And I do know that one cure potion is less expensive than one major, but I wonder what the cost of an 800HP barb self healing and buffing through a raid via pot would be (as well as repairs from damage taken in melee).

Favor Pots:

• Silver Flame Pots: 400 Plat, heals for 250 HP

Guild vendor:

• Cure Light: 4.5 Plat, heals 6.5 HP average (1d6 +2 +1)
• Cure Moderate: 29 Plat, heals 14 HP average (2d6 +4 +3)
• Cure Serious: 73 Plat, Heals 18.5 HP average (3d8 +5)

To get back 800 HP once would cost you:

• 1,280 Plat in SF Pots, and take 4 Pots, which would require 10 seconds of constant chugging @ 3 seconds a pot
• 553 Plat in Clw Pots, and take 123 pots which would require 6 minutes of constant chugging @ 3 seconds a pot.
• 1,657 Plat in Cmw Pots, and take 58 pots, which would require 3 Minutes of constant chugging @ 3 seconds a pot
• 3,156 Plat in Csw Pots, and take 44 pots, which would require 2.2 Minutes of constant chugging @ 3 seconds a pot

In case you were wondering.

[Schwarzie]

Favor Pots:
1,280 Plat in SF Pots, and take 4 Pots, which would require 10 seconds of constant chugging @ 3 seconds a pot

If you need 4 you maybe should think about some decent healing amp. My Barb gets 360 from each Pot.

And if a Raidhealer lets you regen 800hp via Potusage you should drop group.

If a raid/quest is going pretty much smoothly, than its only costing blue bars nothing other than components. Melees are actually spending plat on pots. They only thing that really evens out is repair bills, but how high of a bill is a blue bars in comparison to a melees? In the end, casters spend more in resources than melees in terms of value, but if quests go smooth enough, than melees usually do.

Rofl

All of my toons are melees

Geeze, who would have though that after your first Post in this Thread...

Melee only players that whine about the expense of a few CSW Pots or the occasional Remove Curse Pot and a few plat for repairs and even dare to compare that with Mana Pot usage will never stop to amaze me. A Major Mnemonic on Argo cost roughly 18k in the AH the average repaircost on my Melees is under 500 plat, go figure...

[rokes]

Agreed with Fiz.
I always offer pots to the healers if I see they chugged at least one, even if I had to use a couple myself, but often (around 60% of the times) I get a "No tyvm, im fine".

I must be running with some really nice people
Or maybe healers have a hard time accepting pots from casters.

[Ghibly]

Hey Rokes

Agreed with Fiz.
but often (around 60% of the times) I get a "No tyvm, im fine".

I must be running with some really nice people

Yeah I must say it happens sometimes to me too...nice thing indeed

[Uma-Quixote]

Its actually pretty simple....

If you only play melee toons and you sell your major pots rather than give them away THEN YOU ARE A TOTAL TIGHTWAD AND A SCUMBAG

[Ghibly]

THEN YOU ARE A TOTAL TIGHTWAD AND A SCUMBAG

and no heals for you!

[Lutebasher]

^^

In my Experience Zero Pots Compensation is the Default.

That's absolutely Fine by me.

However when a Pug Leader PMd me to Join his / her Epic Run last Night... Well I need my Finite Pot Supply for Guild Runs therefore I politely Refused.

Just my Experience for what it is Worth.

[axel15810]

Something ****ed me off more tonight then not getting offers for pot reimbursement.

Healed a HoX raid, the other cleric and I were all pumped because Lorrik's Champion dropped (I'd been looking for this for the last 10 HoX runs and this is the only time it has dropped) and the lvl 20 fighter it dropped to DID NOT let us roll for it because he insisted he needed it for healing clicky, Even though it's 2 charges of Panecea which will give him a whopping 3-8hp per click! I'm sooo steamed over this. Sorry for going off topic but I had to vent somewhere.

**** like this makes me not want to heal raids! That was the most selfing thing I'd witnessed in DDO.

Atleast I got reimbursed 20k plat from the raid leader this time for healing scrolls.

/end rant

[Ghibly]

the lvl 20 fighter it dropped to DID NOT let us roll for it because he insisted he needed it for healing clicky, Even though it's 2 charges of Panecea which will give him a whopping 3-8hp per click! I'm sooo steamed over this. Sorry for going off topic but I had to vent somewhere.

Sorry for you man...some people are really idiots.

[dredre9987]

I understand what you mean mate, but my reply is the same. Not always you have the time to wait for the perfect tank, so in some cases a maxdps geared Barbarian is the best for VoD elite and ToD elite, i.e...in this cases a good FVS is more than enough.
[/U][/COLOR]

A max dps barb is not a tank.....It is much easier in todays game to build an AC tank for almost all of the raids...

[dredre9987]

Something ****ed me off more tonight then not getting offers for pot reimbursement.

Healed a HoX raid, the other cleric and I were all pumped because Lorrik's Champion dropped (I'd been looking for this for the last 10 HoX runs and this is the only time it has dropped) and the lvl 20 fighter it dropped to DID NOT let us roll for it because he insisted he needed it for healing clicky, Even though it's 2 charges of Panecea which will give him a whopping 3-8hp per click! I'm sooo steamed over this. Sorry for going off topic but I had to vent somewhere.

**** like this makes me not want to heal raids! That was the most selfing thing I'd witnessed in DDO.

Atleast I got reimbursed 20k plat from the raid leader this time for healing scrolls.

/end rant

I say this all the time...technically it was his loot to do whatever he wanted with it....Gotta love the entitlement society we live in.

[hiryuu42]

I say this all the time...technically it was his loot to do whatever he wanted with it....Gotta love the entitlement society we live in.

As long as we're being technical, the mana pots central to this whole conversation are the melee's loot to trade/AH/vendor as they please. You're not entitled to them unless that arrangement is made beforehand. Without defending the Lorrik's pull, I will say Panacea is quite a nice space-saving, multipurpose clicky. (If you're wondering, I mostly play blue bars)

[mobrien316]

I never expect anyone to pass me pots, no matter how many I had to use to keep the raid going. If anyone passes me one, I look at it as a bonus. No one is making me use pots; it is my choice.



I REALLY never expect anyone to pass me anything in a chest, or even put it up for roll. Their loot is their loot. If it doesn't pop in the chest with my name on it I have no claim on it whatsoever.

[Cap_Man]

Favor Pots:

• Silver Flame Pots: 400 Plat, heals for 250 HP

◦Silverflame Healing Potion - 400pp (recovers 250HP, -50% run speed, -10 abilities and saving throws for 30 seconds as side effects)

I would never expect a melee to drink these during a raid end fight.

Back to Mana Pots: I rarely reimburse healers or casters for mana pots. That's because I usually pass the mana pots to healers as soon as I find them in chests. Therefore, the only mana pots I own come from solo questing. I keep these for when things go really really bad but are saved by an awesome pot drinking blue bar. Then I dip into my meager supply.

Does that work? Or should I loot the mana pots and save them for Raids?

[NaturalHazard]

I know its bad but I dont carry pots on my melee ranger and bard (i do on my wizard and more caster/healer specced bard but he never uses em, sp song, torc, con opt,) because I hate, them getting destroyed it has happened to me a lot, though pots would be great to help save the party from sticky situations, the ranger has, con-opt, torc and a bauble and the bard a torc and con-opt. But yeah have had harry destroy 5 or more pots in one shot, no kidding he destroyed 20 res strolls in part 5 of shroud a couple of days ago.


If i reimburse its with plat most often or a toon swap and mail em a pot.

I play with the metality to keep pot consumption to a minimum, and will try and learn ways to keep it down, tactics whatever, some people however drink them like irishman on saint pats day and expect others to drink em to help prop up their playstlye or whatever.

Had people run epic DA with me and they expressed supprise when I told em no one used pots apparently someone else told them it was *impossible* to run that quest with 0 pot use.

[Vormaerin]

I just figure if you can't do a quest or raid without mana pots, you have no business doing the raid on that difficulty level.

If hardly anyone can do the raid without chugging mana pots, then there is a problem with the raid design not the mana pot compensation system.