New U13 Items

[voodoogroves]

Good point.

I could also see a case for pure 20 Silver Flame FVS who want to ignore the longbow. I spent a prof on greataxe for mine, but sticking with staffs is probably "enough" melee for a caster-first, melee-second FVS when you're not using a shield.

[Ovrad]

On the flip side it means that I don't have to get any of the items, and never run the quests besides the initial run-through on epic. Yaay....

Tell me about it, speaking as someone that mostly plays his monk, here's what I can use:

Cruel Nobility,
Doublecross Bow,
Envenomed Blade,
Flameward,
Fury of the Flame,
Rakshasa Hide,
Silver Slinger,
Templar's Bastion,
Templar's Bulwark,
Templar's Justice,
Templar's Retribution
-Nope, can't use any of those at all.

Bow of the Silver Flame Could use if I had zen archery.
Darkstorm Helm Could techinically use, but gives no bonus to monks, maybe a clickie for fun.
Templar's Docent Could use if I was WF.
Luminous Truth Could use if I wanted to cut my DPS in half and prevent myself from using most monk moves.

Golden Guile I guess this could be used, but apart as a skill item, I fail to see the purpose.

Not a lot of grinding for me on the horizon then...

[FengXian]

Wow. Those are some *really* bad items. Not a single item is any good besides the tower shield. And while the bow /repeater has its uses and is actually better than triple pos on hard / elite abbot / wk. It's a disgrace to call that an epic item. For the love of god, why doesn't it have greater undead bane? Correction, why doens't it have EPIC undead bane?

On the flip side it means that I don't have to get any of the items, and never run the quests besides the initial run-through on epic. Yaay....

I might have missed something but I ABSOLUTELY disagree. I think those are very very nice items, even w/o considering this is the 1st F2P epic pack.

I'll wanna get the club for my incoming sorc, the bow and the shorthswords for my AA, the b-sword and the shield for my tank, and some others for fun/collection. Sounds like enough good items O_o

[Yan_PL]

that shield goes well with 3 sentinel dmark'd chimera fang defenders, or with the new epic rakshasa armor. yay. I'll have something new to farm for, other than leviks! I am glad, excited and drooling for those items. Well done, turbine!

and to all folks that don't want those, you don't want it? pass it over!

[crimsonrazac]

these are awesome for being the first free epic quests out there

[noinfo]

You could use Epic Templar's Shield in one hand, and Flametouched/Air/Air/Air/Metallic Edges alchemical d-axe or b-sword in the other. With my gear setup that is an AC neutral change, costs DPS and threat but adds survivability.

And that is a fair call but it does mean that it is not really compatible with the weapons in this pack since they do not have HA4.

It would be nice to have a matching set if you will from the pack. Either HA4 on the weapons or the shield would be nice.

The armour really should be 1 AC higher to compete with the Cav Plate.

[Auran82]

And while it is cool, anyone really trying a DEX build is going to have more than 30 DEX (the +10 bonus). You can eke some more out, but I was looking seriously at DEX targets a while back. Fact is, armor at all has a limit and if you push DEX, you're going to hit it and be better in PJs.

If you're really using a Nat Gann and pumping DEX ... let's say halfling ...

20 dex + 5 levels + 3 exceptional + 2 tome + 6 item + 2 racial + 3 rogue = 41 ... +15 ... toss on some boats, a +3 tome and showtime and you're near 50 ... maybe one or two levels of monk for wind stance ... who doesn't want a 50-ish DEX when you're adding it to hit and damage. That's a +20 modifier.

You're 21 with armor and capped DEX, 28 if you go with PJs and a +8 armor item. Even just in a DT outfit or robes you're at 26 ... 5 better than these epic armors.

None of these light armors are for builds who really push DEX; they are better with PJs.

My stalwart defender (18/2 Fighter/Rogue) once I ever decide to finish his gear would probably suit this armour, but it really is a niche that needs to be worked on. From memory, I think I can get him to like 32 Dex or so. I was going to use the parasitic breastplate for his AC with Evasion needs (with +10 reflext on it) but this *may* be more useful. Maybe.

Generally, the whole defense system needs to be worked on, lol. But I hear it's the next 'Lets Talk' thread.

[noinfo]

that shield goes well with 3 sentinel dmark'd chimera fang defenders, or with the new epic rakshasa armor. yay. I'll have something new to farm for, other than leviks! I am glad, excited and drooling for those items. Well done, turbine!

and to all folks that don't want those, you don't want it? pass it over!

Won't go well with the armour at all. The MDB of the shield will be too low.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

I might have missed something but I ABSOLUTELY disagree. I think those are very very nice items, even w/o considering this is the 1st F2P epic pack.

I'll wanna get the club for my incoming sorc, the bow and the shorthswords for my AA, the b-sword and the shield for my tank, and some others for fun/collection. Sounds like enough good items O_o

Well. I was talking from the perspective of a power gamer, one that doesn't create suboptimal item builds. And none of those items fit in an optimal build, with the exception of the shield, but who plays a S&B tank when you can monk tank?

[LeLoric]

Just wanted to pop in with my thoughts.

Epic items, courtesy of the Dev event:

Note all epic armor pieces are currently BTA and weapons and other items BTC. This is no doubt a bug.

Epic Golden Guile - Necklace - Ghostly, Diplomacy +20, Bluff +20, Improved Deception, Excep Cha Skills 1, Yellow Slot. Kinda meh but has some situational uses for soloing rogues on red nameds i guess.


Epic Rakshasa Hide - Light Armor (Hide) - AC 11 (including enhancement), Max Dex 10 (including Nimbleness). +6, Rough Hide (absolutely stacking +3 AC), Heightened Awareness 4, Superior Nimbleness, Roar, Attack Bonus +2, Blue Slot. Some high ac potential. Kinda middle of the road here between this and the duelist leathers. Leathers still have a higher capable ac but these are good for someone with a bit less dex. Some sorc may use this and slot asf into it if just for the roar since they can't use the belt for it and still keep their tod set.

Epic Cruel Nobility - Scimitar (2d6) - +6, Axiomatic, Unholy, Slicing, Bleed, Disintegration, Red Slot. Until we get more eladrin/ghale type mobs at higher levels this is fairly weak. I don't think anyone would spend 20 tokens on this for a level 20 to go farm rwtd.


Epic Templar's Bulwark - Tower Shield (base AC 5, base DR 6 meaning effective DR 12, 1 higher than normal AC) - +6, Mithral, Inherent Fire Resistance 10, Inherent Cold Resistance 10, Inherent Acid Resistance 10, Inherent Electricity Resistance 10, Violet Slot Very sexy. Best Ac tower shield in game. slotted as a +7 this beats leviks by 3 ac. A small loss to blocking dr is really not taht bad. Resists are nice too and rare effects not found many other places.

Epic Envenomed Blade - Short Sword (2d6, Str OR Dex for both ToHit and Damage) - +6, Poison Burst, Improved Paralyzing, Armor-Piercing 10%, Deadly Spider Venom, Enervation, Red Slot. This item is sick. Pretty nice little toy for the piercing spec. I still find the armor piercing to be out of place on this item. The things we fight that are fortified and aren't immune to paralyzing, poison, and enervation are very rare.


Epic Bow of the Silver Flame - Longbow (2d8) - +6, Silver, Holy Burst, Weaken Undead, Undead Bane, Blunted Ammunition, Red Slot. May not seem all that great but it's subtly very strong. With just the undead ban added this is better than triple positive on anything with dr 10 or higher dr. Melees don't have anthing close to being able to beat triple positive on undead. Factor in weaken undead too for some nice debuffs that the whole party can use. Not a ton of skeles we fight but abbot/ewizking both are still very much end game.

Epic Flameward - Club (2d6, Str OR Cha) - +5, Fire absorption 20%, Greater Evocation focus, UMD +5 competence, Charisma +7, Excep Cha +1, Greater Fire resistance, Violet Slot. Ooh I like. Instantly replaces epic big top and Epic silver flame cloak in my umd setup for wizzie. Put some good luck in that violet slot for pure umd goodness.

Epic Fury of the Flame - Maul (2d10) - +6, Adamantine, Flaming Burst, Incandescence, Fracturing, Impact, Red Slot. What has adamantine dr and still has bones to fracture. Not much I don't think. If we get an entire update of level 20+ razar cats this becomes a great weapon as is though it's kinda blah.

Epic Darkstorm Helm - Headgear - Epic Nullification 6, Epic Magnetism 6, Superior Void Lore, Superior Lightning Lore, Call Lightning Storm 3/day, Green Slot. Most pale masters use the robe but this is an alternative and possibly go with the abbot robe in there for light resist. Sup lightning lore is nice though and gives casters some other options to get this.

Epic Doublecross Bow - Repeating Light Crossbow (2d8) - +6, Poison Burst, Crippling, Armor-Piercing 10%, Nightshade Venom, Enervation, Red Slot. The venom effect is really unwieldy and only good 33% of the time. Crippling and enervation are nice. Armor piercing seems misplaced just like on the short sword.

Epic Silver Slinger - Repeating Heavy Crossbow (2d10) - Identical mutations to Epic Bow of Silver Flame Same thoughts here as the bow.

Epic Luminous Truth - Quarterstaff (2d6, Augmented Crit 19/x2) - +6, Epic Combustion VI, Epic Radiance VI, Superior Fire Lore, Superior Radiance Lore, Flaming Burst, Incandescence, Incineration, Red Slot. This seems very druidish to me. Hard to make an item that duals as a melee and caster item and still be good.

Epic Templar's Bastion - Mithral Full Plate (10 base AC, 3 base MDB - so 1 AC behind Cav Plate) - +6, Mithral, DR 5/Evil, Spell Resistance (30), Light Guard, Radiance Guard, Blue Slot. Don't we have two similar and arguably better epic armors than this? Nobody really even uses those.

Epic Templar's Docent - Docent - identical mutations to Bastion, above. At least this one doesn't have similar docents already out there but it is still average at best.

Epic Templar's Justice - Dwarven Axe (2d10) - +6, Cold Iron, Holy burst, Incandescence, Good Blast, Brilliance, Godly Wrath, Red Slot Lloth is a demon, she has lots of demon friends. Coincidence? I think not. I haven't ran the specific numbers yet but these should beat out +5 holy burst greater chaotic outsider banes. Nice to see the dwarves the greatest blacksmiths in the world finally able to make themselves an epic dwarven axe.

Templar's Retribution - Bastard Sword (2d10) - +6, Cold Iron, Holy burst, Incandescence, Good Blast, Brilliance, Godly Wrath, Red Slot See my comments for Justice.

[LeLoric]

Wow. Those are some *really* bad items. Not a single item is any good besides the tower shield. And while the bow /repeater has its uses and is actually better than triple pos on hard / elite abbot / wk. It's a disgrace to call that an epic item. For the love of god, why doesn't it have greater undead bane? Correction, why doens't it have EPIC undead bane?

On the flip side it means that I don't have to get any of the items, and never run the quests besides the initial run-through on epic. Yaay....

Epic undead bane would be silly. The fact that it can beat triple positive at all is saying something. Melees don't have anything that beats triple positive. If monks had greensteel handwraps trip pos would blow away the mabar wraps.

If an undead mob has any sort of bludgeon dr this is better than a trip pos as is. Epic undead bane would be so far over the top of the established standard. We don't need that kind of power creep really.

The dwarf axe and bastard sword are best in slot against demons too something we are going to get a lot of in a lloth based campaign. The new quests are already ripe with them. Not entirely sure yet but these would probably give crafted khopesh hbecb's a run for their money.

Sup lore items in new and different slots are never bad things. The helm has a lot of useful potential. The club is just umd goodness.

The shield is a best in slot for ac tower shields.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Epic undead bane would be silly. The fact that it can beat triple positive at all is saying something. Melees don't have anything that beats triple positive. If monks had greensteel handwraps trip pos would blow away the mabar wraps.

If an undead mob has any sort of bludgeon dr this is better than a trip pos as is. Epic undead bane would be so far over the top of the established standard. We don't need that kind of power creep really.

Yes, that it beats a level 12 item available to anyone at any time by running a *very* easy raid. That makes it good enough to be an epic item.

Let's face it, since U12 abbot has gotten so much hp (the only place you'll use the weapon), having a good weapon against his immense hp pool won't be over the top.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

The dwarf axe and bastard sword are best in slot against demons too something we are going to get a lot of in a lloth based campaign. The new quests are already ripe with them. Not entirely sure yet but these would probably give crafted khopesh hbecb's a run for their money.

Sup lore items in new and different slots are never bad things. The helm has a lot of useful potential. The club is just umd goodness.

The shield is a best in slot for ac tower shields.

I mentioned the shield as the only good item.

DA and BS are decent, but once again, not really anything special. Not worth grinding out for one easy raid.
The club is for suboptimal item builds. Guess a suboptimal item serves that purpose.

[LeLoric]

I mentioned the shield as the only good item.

DA and BS are decent, but once again, not really anything special. Not worth grinding out for one easy raid.
The club is for suboptimal item builds. Guess a suboptimal item serves that purpose.

My wizard is far from supotimal and wants the club. It is a great tool for non rog/bard/arti classes to hit 39 umd.

You are going to see many more demons don't worry. the bs and da are already good for this new current update and I am sure miss lloth will throw more of her friends at us.

Yes, that it beats a level 12 item available to anyone at any time by running a *very* easy raid. That makes it good enough to be an epic item.

Let's face it, since U12 abbot has gotten so much hp (the only place you'll use the weapon), having a good weapon against his immense hp pool won't be over the top.

This argument again. Yes it's available at level 12 but shroud items are not your normal ml 12 items. They are epic items all on their own just available earlier. It's pretty clear the devs consider them as such or most of their pic items would surpass greensteel yet they don't. If the devs were consistantly making items much better than greensteel then you point would carry some weight but it really doesn't as the devs have set greensteel as the general standard and new items approach them or slightly surpass them with very few exceptions.

The kind of numbers a trip pos puts out against undead are superior by far than any other item in the game. The mournlodes are the only ones even close to comparison normally to triple positive and they dont even pass it as a level 20 epic item. And the difference between them and third place isn't even funny.

[dudulinka]

Tell me about it, speaking as someone that mostly plays his monk, here's what I can use:

Cruel Nobility,
Doublecross Bow,
Envenomed Blade,
Flameward,
Fury of the Flame,
Rakshasa Hide,
Silver Slinger,
Templar's Bastion,
Templar's Bulwark,
Templar's Justice,
Templar's Retribution
-Nope, can't use any of those at all.

Bow of the Silver Flame Could use if I had zen archery.
Darkstorm Helm Could techinically use, but gives no bonus to monks, maybe a clickie for fun.
Templar's Docent Could use if I was WF.
Luminous Truth Could use if I wanted to cut my DPS in half and prevent myself from using most monk moves.

Golden Guile I guess this could be used, but apart as a skill item, I fail to see the purpose.

Not a lot of grinding for me on the horizon then...

I am a monk player too, but just for the sport, if u are dark path monk u can use the sick short sword - envenomed blade, well u lose the fist special attacks but hey this is something different if u got bored, at least it is better then the Sting short sword.
It is very nice short sword 2d6, Str OR Dex for both ToHit and Damage, +6, Poison Burst, Improved Paralyzing, Armor-Piercing 10%, Deadly Spider Venom, Enervation, Red Slot.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

My wizard is far from supotimal and wants the club. It is a great tool for non rog/bard/arti classes to hit 39 umd.

PM and heal that way?

You are going to see many more demons don't worry. the bs and da are already good for this new current update and I am sure miss lloth will throw more of her friends at us.

And you don't expect better items with level 25?

This argument again. Yes it's available at level 12 but shroud items are not your normal ml 12 items. They are epic items all on their own just available earlier. It's pretty clear the devs consider them as such or most of their pic items would surpass greensteel yet they don't. If the devs were consistantly making items much better than greensteel then you point would carry some weight but it really doesn't as the devs have set greensteel as the general standard and new items approach them or slightly surpass them with very few exceptions.

And people wonder why physicals are so far behind casters. Might be because they haven't gotten a new weapon in what, 4 years?

The kind of numbers a trip pos puts out against undead are superior by far than any other item in the game. The mournlodes are the only ones even close to comparison normally to triple positive and they dont even pass it as a level 20 epic item. And the difference between them and third place isn't even funny.

+5 holy burst of gub says hello. Easy to get, and is MUCH better.

[Yan_PL]

Won't go well with the armour at all. The MDB of the shield will be too low.

with +7 epic augment on rakshasa armor, and rough hide, it's 15 AC from the armor (not counting insight bonus, as i have it elsewhere). that's highest you can get on evasion armors; for comparison, icy raiment + armor bonus +8 bracers = 12; epic duelist leathers slotted with +7 = +13. now, with stalwart enhancements, mobility feat and stuff, mithral tower shield MDB becomes high enough to warrant using it. my current AC shield is +5 mithral tower of superior stability (cannith crafted), and my MDB is currently limited by my armor (mournlode fullplate, as i couldn't get eCav)

[LeLoric]

PM and heal that way?


And you don't expect better items with level 25?



And people wonder why physicals are so far behind casters. Might be because they haven't gotten a new weapon in what, 4 years?


+5 holy burst of gub says hello. Easy to get, and is MUCH better.

Yes my wizard is a pm. He can umd heal tanks in raids. Many of the best wizards areable to fully scroll heal with maxed out enhancements while also kiting mobs/dpsing/doing other tasks assigned to them. This replaces two items for me when I swap to umd setup. It's a huge boost.

Sure there will probably better items with level 25 but not like other mmo's where we will be replacing an entire gearset at least not initially. Plus we need items to help us get the better items to come out.

Casters gear hasn't really gone up much since greensteel either. It has nothing to do with why casters are stronger right now you've played the game long enough to know this.

+5 hb gub is not better than trip positive are you kidding. It's not even better than mournlode. Really not close to either of these options. You're the dps guru you should know this. Much better? Laughable.

[Hobgoblin]

The shield is a best in slot for ac tower shields.

so it is bis for towers - how does it compare to say the ekundarak?

hob

[Yan_PL]

Epic Flameward - Club (2d6, Str OR Cha) - +5, Fire absorption 20%, Greater Evocation focus, UMD +5 competence, Charisma +7, Excep Cha +1, Greater Fire resistance, Violet Slot.

only way this item could be made better, if it was mithral buckler base item, so it would constantly go into "off-hand" slot when using scroll instead of auto-equipping into main-hand.