Please Remove "Echoes of Power"

[Dawnsfire]

For those who complain Echoes of power is not DnD how about we limit all spell caster to a number of spells like the table top, lets also instil the actual XP penalties from the table top for multi-classing. maybe I will see less twink character build with 4 levels of one class and 2 levels of EVERY OTHER CLASS.

The trick is it is a MMO version of 3.5 it will not be perfect, that is life deal.

I have not heard this much complaining since the last time a party member TPK'ed, and as DM I just laughed.

Are current arguments so rare that you have to necro one that is a few months old?

[Bodic]

For those who complain Echoes of power is not DnD how about we limit all spell caster to a number of spells like the table top, lets also instil the actual XP penalties from the table top for multi-classing. maybe I will see less twink character build with 4 levels of one class and 2 levels of EVERY OTHER CLASS.

The trick is it is a MMO version of 3.5 it will not be perfect, that is life deal.

I have not heard this much complaining since the last time a party member TPK'ed, and as DM I just laughed.

Epic first post bro Necro a topic like this.
and why do we not like it, because it serves ZERO purpose.

[Saravis]

Well Post-Inception and been playing my Sorc. So do I feel uber from EoP?

Not at all, its popped up like once for me and when it did the rate of recovery and the usability of the SP is so low, that the difference would be miniscule without it.

Frankly from the reduction in SP usage, I've been gaining mnem pots in mass that I haven't needed to use, which, amusingly enough, even a minor pot would give me a better restore than EoP.

So yes, please be rid of EoP and give us Savants lower cooldowns on our SLAs, it bugs me to no end that PM SLAs have considerably lower cooldowns than Sorcs. Aren't Sorcs supposed to have lower cooldowns than Wizzies? Rather contradictory there.

[SynnMG]

For those who complain Echoes of power is not DnD how about we limit all spell caster to a number of spells like the table top, lets also instil the actual XP penalties from the table top for multi-classing. maybe I will see less twink character build with 4 levels of one class and 2 levels of EVERY OTHER CLASS.

The trick is it is a MMO version of 3.5 it will not be perfect, that is life deal.

I have not heard this much complaining since the last time a party member TPK'ed, and as DM I just laughed.

Ok, so you were either lurking, or joined recently...
A simple lesson is "If the the last post is over 2 months old, don't reply because it is Necroposting."

[KillEveryone]

So yes, please be rid of EoP and give us Savants lower cooldowns on our SLAs, it bugs me to no end that PM SLAs have considerably lower cooldowns than Sorcs. Aren't Sorcs supposed to have lower cooldowns than Wizzies? Rather contradictory there.

Pale masters are also using their HP on their SLAs and they are not meta'ed.

While I do agree that spells that use SP on a sorcerer, including SLAs, I don't really have a problem with a pale master being able to do the same since they can't be meta'ed like the sorcerers SLAs.

I have no problems with the removal of EoP and would love to see it removed and have the SLA cooldown back to what it was before EoP was added.

[SiliconShadow]

/not signed

It is in no way shape or form overpowered, while not being DND it never got to the point where I was that helpless in PNP that I couldn't do something in an encounter with my caster, this is a needed balance for the realtime environment, because mobs can sometimes just keep saving and your sp pool goes to nought.

[FranOhmsford]

/most definitely not signed.

This might just stop clerics getting told "You must have Pots". Where am I getting all these pots from? And no I don't have hundreds of thousands of plat at 10k/pot {average price on ah}.

[KillEveryone]

/most definitely not signed.

This might just stop clerics getting told "You must have Pots". Where am I getting all these pots from? And no I don't have hundreds of thousands of plat at 10k/pot {average price on ah}.

Clerics should not be told to suck a SP pot. It is up to the player to decide this since they are rare.

You do know that echos only regenerates 12 SP? That is a cure light, maybe a moderate. It is also only available to those with the magical training feat which only wiz and sorc have.

[Saravis]

/not signed

It is in no way shape or form overpowered, while not being DND it never got to the point where I was that helpless in PNP that I couldn't do something in an encounter with my caster, this is a needed balance for the realtime environment, because mobs can sometimes just keep saving and your sp pool goes to nought.

You seem to misunderstand something, nobody here thinks its OP, except for the Devs. For whatever reason they think that this is somehow an uber ability and requires nerfing in the more important areas of spellcasting. We want it removed because we want our lower cost and lower cooldown SLAs back.

/most definitely not signed.

This might just stop clerics getting told "You must have Pots". Where am I getting all these pots from? And no I don't have hundreds of thousands of plat at 10k/pot {average price on ah}.

You're still going to be told you must have pots, EoP restores you to a total of 12sp and it takes you 18 seconds to get to that point. Good luck healing a Shroud or ToD with that. Heck, good luck healing ANY group as the most you can achieve with that sp is 2 non-meta-ed CLWs. Yep that is so ridiculously OP.

[FranOhmsford]

I know this which is why I'm having people constantly telling me I must have pots {On Normal}. This is now - a month after EoP was introduced.

I'm not allowed to go back to the shrine I saved because I still had 1/2 my sps at the time we passed said shrine as that would slow everyone down - No on normal I must drink pots I simply cannot afford to waste as I know I will be needing for elite.

These are vale quests not the raid.

I still need 2 of these quests to flag for said raid.

I have Twisted Talisman but not Archivists Necklace as I threw it away in a moment of madness long ago.

Echoes of Power gives me 12 sps which may just get me back to said shrine {This is in no way shape or form OP}.

P.S. Clerics and FS get Echoes not just Wiz and Sorc.

[eonfreon]

Clerics should not be told to suck a SP pot. It is up to the player to decide this since they are rare.

You do know that echos only regenerates 12 SP? That is a cure light, maybe a moderate. It is also only available to those with the magical training feat which only wiz and sorc have.

Clerics get it too. Pretty sure FvS get it too, but I don't have a lowbie FvS atm so I haven't run out of SP in a long time. But I have run a new Cleric up to level 7 recently and I know that he has EoP.

[KillEveryone]

Clerics get it too. Pretty sure FvS get it too, but I don't have a lowbie FvS atm so I haven't run out of SP in a long time. But I have run a new Cleric up to level 7 recently and I know that he has EoP.

Didn't know they had magical training. Haven't ran my cleric in such a long time and I haven't run out of SP on my FvS.

[KillEveryone]

I know this which is why I'm having people constantly telling me I must have pots {On Normal}. This is now - a month after EoP was introduced.

I'm not allowed to go back to the shrine I saved because I still had 1/2 my sps at the time we passed said shrine as that would slow everyone down - No on normal I must drink pots I simply cannot afford to waste as I know I will be needing for elite.

These are vale quests not the raid.

I still need 2 of these quests to flag for said raid.

I have Twisted Talisman but not Archivists Necklace as I threw it away in a moment of madness long ago.

Echoes of Power gives me 12 sps which may just get me back to said shrine {This is in no way shape or form OP}.

P.S. Clerics and FS get Echoes not just Wiz and Sorc.

Don't listen to them when they tell you that you must have pots.

If they insist you have pots, insist they give you the pots.

If they don't want to wait for you to go back and use the shrine you saved, that is their problem, not yours.

If they continue to insist you have to carry and use pots in a normal quest, you really don't need to run with them. You can find better players that will work with you and not insist you use pots for a normal quest.

I have carried a few when I was running my spellsinger, but I only used them while in a raid for an emergency use(I did use a few a bit hastily and really shouldn't have drank them at those moments.) I never used them in a normal quest for party healing. If I saved a shrine, I used that shrine when I ran out of SP and if the group didn't want to wait, that was their problem, not mine.

[~SyZoRe]

/signed

/signed /signed /signed /signed
Please count as 4 /signed because.

Echoes of power is NOT DnD, and just makes the game weaker and too much like other mmos.

This

Remove Echoes of Power, or limit it to level 5 and under.

and This

There are so many things lately that makes the game less and less mmoDND and more of a normal mmorpg.

But i do believe that sp users below lvl 5 should get something like this.
i know that many new casters re-roll there caster into dps because they can't manage staying at right amount of sp and it gets to that - or they have to be weak and not use meta-magics, or use meta-magics and be oom in the first 5 seconds of the quest.

[Roguewiz]

The problem lies with the player, not the ability. In my experience, most casters (particularly Wizards and Sorcerers) are overzealous with their spells. Not every single encounter requires 5 firewalls and 3 disco balls. Your teammates should be able to cover themselves and kill the mobs as well.

In addition to the player problem, the other issue is pretty simple. Game design. Mobs have inflated HP, Saves, and Resists. This makes playing a caster either incredibly fun, or incrediubly infuriating. Nothing worse than draining a bunch of mana to single target (non-insta death) a mob down. Unfortunately, since the game needs to be challenging, don't expect those things to change.

Echoes of Power does suck, that much I will agree, but its a step in the right direction. We never expected a direct translation from PnP to Online MMO. Certain adjustments need to be made. The best option, in my opinion, is not EoP; but something else. Turbine should implement enhancements that regen spell points. Something like a 2 part enhancement that will regen 5%/10% of your mana when you are NOT in combat. Give it a duration, like 2min. This will force teammates to slow down and let you get your mana back, and allow casters to be a little more viable.

/not signed untill something else is implemented.

[Tinco]

EoP is almost irrelevant past level 10 or so. It serves one purpose: Helping low level casters (and their party) who are probably new to the game. Instead of being 'victim' of the very binary nature of spell points you can do at least something if you misjudged the way to the next shrine. And this happens - but probably not to a vet who knows each and every quest, their objectives, the pitfalls and the traps, the location of the shrines and the bosses - those vets seem to be the vocal majority in this thread but I'm conviced the EoP system is not even remotely tailored towards them. I don't care for EoP at all but I can see a purpose, and if it even helps only one or two new people with a bit smoother learning curve then it's worth it.

Calling the end of the world, the end of sp-management, the end of ddo or whatever is bollocks.

[Darkrok]

Echoes of power lets my sorc nuke with impunity in groups until the sp's run out then just use sla's until the shrine on the off-chance I run out of sp's. Probably ran into it about 2 or 3 times in the past month while leveling a sorc to 17. In harder quests obviously I'll lean on the SLA's and conserve sp's for the hard fights but in easy runs with good groups it's full power until we're done or the sp's run out. Being able to continue tossing out electric loops to stun everything for the melee even once out of sp's is very nice.

Even nicer? Having a Spellsinger along with you for the run.

[SiliconShadow]

You seem to misunderstand something, nobody here thinks its OP, except for the Devs. For whatever reason they think that this is somehow an uber ability and requires nerfing in the more important areas of spellcasting. We want it removed because we want our lower cost and lower cooldown SLAs back.

The SLAs where increased because they needed to be increased if you remove eop they wont, i didnt misunderstand anything some people started to clearly talk about its power, I made a statement to the opposite effect.

Removing it won't change that spell costs for the dynamic system in which ddo resides meant that spell costs had to be altered in order for spells in general to be useful again where they where once ignored. Now you have a SLA that isn't much different in cost from the original spell however it gets affected for free by the metas, which all in all is how it should be imo still not signed remove eop and it would be stupid to revert the spell costs, keep it and it helps lowbies, thats all I have had to finish off the last sliver of hp once since its inception on my level 20, once I have made major use of it.

Removing it wont change any other area of the game, sp management is far easier now with the reduction in cost of spells overall, if you disagree you need to update your playstyle not whinge about change.

[twix]

Didn't know they had magical training. Haven't ran my cleric in such a long time and I haven't run out of SP on my FvS.

....

[Kmnh]

did I sign this already?

w/e, I'll sign it now anyway

/signed