Why the extra SP cost for Evocation Archmage?

[TheKaige]

Just out of curiosity; Why did the SLA's on evocation Archmages get their SP costs increased? I hope the devs aren't worried that Evocation Archmages are somehow superior to Savants and that this was needed.

Not saying it was wrong, but I can't think of any real good reasons why for the change, so it looks pretty wrong.

[Bodic]

To make them even more undesired.

[Khimberlhyte]

Just out of curiosity; Why did the SLA's on evocation Archmages get their SP costs increased? I hope the devs aren't worried that Evocation Archmages are somehow superior to Savants and that this was needed.

Not saying it was wrong, but I can't think of any real good reasons why for the change, so it looks pretty wrong.

Balancing for Echoes of Power would be my guess. Scorching ray went up from 4 sp (iirc) to 8 sp as well. They increased arcane bolt from 1 SP to 2 SP, and blast from 5 SP to 6 SP as well, because you can go a long ways with those damage spells just running on Echoes of Power.

When I tried last week, as long as I was careful to not get overwhelmed, Echoes of Power allowed me to cycle between 1 SP arcane bolt, 4 SP scorching ray, and 4 SP arcane blast. At 4 SP regen every 6 seconds, and a 15 SP cap, it was mildly overpowered, so long as you could live with a pew-pew playstyle. Magic missile at 1 SP was equivalent to arcane bolt.

It sucks, but 2 sp isn't bad. I'd happily pay 2 sp for AM hypno that isn't nerfed to near-uselessness.

[Eladrin]

Balancing for Echoes of Power would be my guess.

That's correct.

[dogpig11]

Archmage already lose a lot sp from taking these SLAs. This will further put drain on the AM. but increased cooldown???

[Cyr]

That's correct.

So your balancing it for a new system meant as an 'aid to new players' that relies upon people running with basically zero sp?

[Trillea]

That's correct.

OK, then why the cooldown change? 8 seconds for SLAs are a LOT... Too high IMO.

[talyor]

why not instead of messing with the SLA's because of echoes of power which was intended to help low lvl new players. Make echoes of power fade over time so that by lvl 6 it is gone.I think once someone gets to lvl 6 they shouldnt need it anymore.

Instead of trying to balance the SLA's to the new Echoes of power why not adjust Echoes of power to:

A new effect has been added to characters that applies itself automatically when a player with the Magical Training feat is low on spell points. This effect, called Echoes of Power, regenerates spell points when a player reaches a low threshold of spell points.

• Echoes of Power appears when a player drops below 12 sp.
• The ability regenerates spell points at a rate of 4 sp every 6 seconds.
• The ability removes itself when a player reaches 12 sp or greater.
• The ability is not removed on death, but the player will not benefit from it while dead.
• the ability is suppressed by superior regeneration effects, such as regeneration in a public area or tavern.
• And just like all echoes the ability will eventually fade out at lvl 6.

This way it will not interfere with any of the SLA's

[Farayon]

Although I don't even have a wizzy I still feel like I got slapped in the face when I read this change.

[UniqueToo]

... and another knee to the groin of any caster multiclasses.

[Requiro]

Nerf for Archmage?

Strange ... very strange...

EDIT: Eladrin - are you really think that AM is powerful PrE?

But I mean: really?

[TheKaige]

What I don't get though is that Elemental Savants are going to be able to do the exact thing you say you're nerfing (Running around on Echoes of Power using your SLA's) except for the fact that the entire rest of the Prestige is actually useful.

Archmages give up a lot of SPs for their abilities, and don't get a whole hell of a lot back unless you're playing a Save Dependent school (Enchantment and Necromancy largely)

This just seems like a slap in the face to Evocation Archmages, who I was thinking would be the equivalent of Force Savant up to this point.

Oh, and the Savants have a 6 second cooldown on their level 3 Spell Like abilities. The 8 second cooldown on Force Missile seems a bit unjustified.

I'd understand if Savant's SLAs were put in an even worst position; this just looks like another slam to the Archmage prestige.

*My bad, meant Chain Missile when I put in Force Missile. *

*Oh, and on that note: Sorc level 1 SLA's cost 1 SP, now the level 1 Evoc. Archmage SLA costs 2 SP.
Sorc Level 3 SLA's cost 6 SP, now the Evoc. Archmage level 3 SLA costs 10 SP
That doesn't seem very balanced either. *

[Saravis]

Oh, and the Savants have a 6 second cooldown on their level 3 Spell Like abilities. The 8 second cooldown on Force Missle seems a bit unjustified.

I'm not looking to get into anything, I'll admit I don't know much about Archmage, but I had to comment on this. Considering that Sorcs are supposed to have shorter cooldowns and that force missile is a lvl 4 spell compared to the lvl 3 spells of the savants, I don't find this to be an issue.

[Trillea]

I'm not looking to get into anything, I'll admit I don't know much about Archmage, but I had to comment on this. Considering that Sorcs are supposed to have shorter cooldowns and that force missile is a lvl 4 spell compared to the lvl 3 spells of the savants, I don't find this to be an issue.

Force missiles may technically be a level 4 spell, but its damage output is pitifully low compared to pretty much any other 3rd or 4th level spell due to its slow progression and low base damage dice. Having a further penalty of raised cooldowns is absolutely NOT cool.

[bradleyforrest]

I'm not looking to get into anything, I'll admit I don't know much about Archmage, but I had to comment on this. Considering that Sorcs are supposed to have shorter cooldowns and that force missile is a lvl 4 spell compared to the lvl 3 spells of the savants, I don't find this to be an issue.

But AM doesn't get Force Missiles, they get Chain Missiles, a level 3 spell. Also, it's not like the tier 3 SLAs for the savants are actually spells that can be learned.

[hityawithastick]

But hey, magic missiles are faster now! Woo!

[Requiro]

I'm not looking to get into anything, I'll admit I don't know much about Archmage, but I had to comment on this. Considering that Sorcs are supposed to have shorter cooldowns and that force missile is a lvl 4 spell compared to the lvl 3 spells of the savants, I don't find this to be an issue.

But savant get much more... They trade off one type of elemental but gain much more power in opposite, SL-a, special abilities and ability to temporally increase power of some spell.

While Evocation Archamge trade off their SP pool for SL-a and SL-a only.

Well... I must said that there is only one explanation for that move: Developer are consider rework of Archmage and this is only temporally changes

[Darkrok]

Just gives me a reason to go ahead and TR my evoker. As others have mentioned, they were already a fringe build that was more fun than OP'd. The fact that echoes of power could let them do less sustained dps than a good melee was by no means unbalancing. Oh well, wanted to go to the next flavor (I'm thinking some sort of a melee wizard monk/PM) and get it nerfed to.

[Vengeance777]

What I don't get though is that Elemental Savants are going to be able to do the exact thing you say you're nerfing (Running around on Echoes of Power using your SLA's) except for the fact that the entire rest of the Prestige is actually useful.

Archmages give up a lot of SPs for their abilities, and don't get a whole hell of a lot back unless you're playing a Save Dependent school (Enchantment and Necromancy largely)

This just seems like a slap in the face to Evocation Archmages, who I was thinking would be the equivalent of Force Savant up to this point.

Oh, and the Savants have a 6 second cooldown on their level 3 Spell Like abilities. The 8 second cooldown on Force Missle seems a bit unjustified.

I'd understand if Savant's SLAs were put in an even worst position; this just looks like another slam to the Archmage prestige.

Sorcs are feat starved. They can not afford to take Echoes of Power and a required Savant Feat and still be viable end game. Most likely the few sorcs that do take it will ditch it around level 10 using the free feat exchange.

Sorcs are supposed to have half the cooldown of Wizards. Sorcs should have 4 second sla cooldowns instead of 6 if a wizard has 8 seconds or the wizards should have 12 seconds since sorcs have 6 seconds under the old way. The reason they don't is that Update 9 decreased spell cooldowns for Wizards. So a sorcs spell cooldown is about 3/4 the time of a Wizards now. Wizards should now cast spells a lot faster than they could pre update 9.

One of the main features of the sorcerer is being able to cast faster than a Wizard. Making a wizard cast sla's and spells as fast as a sorc would be a huge nerf to sorcs. Decreasing wizard cooldown is already dangerously cutting into the sorc class faster cooldown feature.

How would Wizards feel if sorcerers could suddenly swap spells out everytime they rested or went into a bar. Its a main feature and perk of the wizard class just as faster casting time is a main feature of sorcs.

[Requiro]

Sorcs are feat starved. They can not afford to take Echoes of Power and a required Savant Feat and still be viable end game. (...)

Uh?

Echoes of Power is free for everyone with Magical Training feat?