Why the extra SP cost for Evocation Archmage?

[TheKaige]

Just out of curiosity; Why did the SLA's on evocation Archmages get their SP costs increased? I hope the devs aren't worried that Evocation Archmages are somehow superior to Savants and that this was needed.

Not saying it was wrong, but I can't think of any real good reasons why for the change, so it looks pretty wrong.

[Bodic]

To make them even more undesired.

[Khimberlhyte]

Just out of curiosity; Why did the SLA's on evocation Archmages get their SP costs increased? I hope the devs aren't worried that Evocation Archmages are somehow superior to Savants and that this was needed.

Not saying it was wrong, but I can't think of any real good reasons why for the change, so it looks pretty wrong.

Balancing for Echoes of Power would be my guess. Scorching ray went up from 4 sp (iirc) to 8 sp as well. They increased arcane bolt from 1 SP to 2 SP, and blast from 5 SP to 6 SP as well, because you can go a long ways with those damage spells just running on Echoes of Power.

When I tried last week, as long as I was careful to not get overwhelmed, Echoes of Power allowed me to cycle between 1 SP arcane bolt, 4 SP scorching ray, and 4 SP arcane blast. At 4 SP regen every 6 seconds, and a 15 SP cap, it was mildly overpowered, so long as you could live with a pew-pew playstyle. Magic missile at 1 SP was equivalent to arcane bolt.

It sucks, but 2 sp isn't bad. I'd happily pay 2 sp for AM hypno that isn't nerfed to near-uselessness.

[Eladrin]

Balancing for Echoes of Power would be my guess.

That's correct.

[Cyr]

That's correct.

So your balancing it for a new system meant as an 'aid to new players' that relies upon people running with basically zero sp?

[Trillea]

That's correct.

OK, then why the cooldown change? 8 seconds for SLAs are a LOT... Too high IMO.

[IronClan]

That's correct.

Was it considered that being already inferior to the newly buffed PM as well as inferior to the Sorc PrE's that you made an undesirable PrE into an even more undesirable PrE?

Kinda flumoxed man, you guys seem intent on making Update 9 into DDO's version of the Star Wars Galaxies "NGE" (New Game Enhancement) The one where a significant portion of the player base got up and left and they lost player base from their on out. Perhaps you're familiar with it.

I realize it's not quite that nerfalicious yet... but you guys keep adding more so...

[Angelus_dead]

That's correct.

That does not make sense as a reason.

Echoes of Power only kicks in when the player character is at essentially zero sp, meaning close to worthless as an offensive force. If there's something valuable and productive a Wizard can achieve by casting a few SLAs and then waiting for Echoes of Power to cast them again, he can also achieve that with a minimal number of Mnemonic Enhancer potions.

There is honestly lots of room to buff Echoes of Power before it becomes a true balance concern. If Echoes of Power + Evoc SLAs is overpowered, then Mnemonic Enhancer + Evoc SLAs is also overpowered, and some other way to nerf Evoc SLAs should be investigated.

[MindCake]

That's correct.

So you want people to be able to continue casting when out of SP, as long as they are unable to continue casting when out of SP? What?

BTW, how about slowing down the recovery, but giving it a bigger max SP, say recover 1 SP every 2-3 seconds up to 14+character level? That'd reduce the asymptotic DPS, but at least let the wizard cast something other every once in a while (If they're willing to wait a minute for the battery to recharge...)

[Farayon]

So you want people to be able to continue casting when out of SP, as long as they are unable to continue casting when out of SP? What?

A good question. Why introduce 'echoes of power' in the first place when obviously we're not supposed to cast anything with it at all!?

[Saravis]

So you want people to be able to continue casting when out of SP, as long as they are unable to continue casting when out of SP? What?

A good question. Why introduce 'echoes of power' in the first place when obviously we're not supposed to cast anything with it at all!?

Huh? I think you guys are taking this to the extremes.

EoP kicks in when a player is below 12 sp, restoring 4 sp every 6 seconds. In other words you can still cast your SLAs and such on a regular basis, you just can't spam them.

[Killdaelf]

That's correct.

As of now, there have been 5-6 wizards Am panic threads.. so you know where the community stands, it would be nice to know why the devs team thinks the prc is so powerfull it will need a nerf.
Or i thinks everyone will sleep better if you could confirm the Am is being reworked and evoker sla is just the first step, that would be very understandable.

[yodino]

Increasing the spell costs of the AM's SLA - which will seriously in turn affect their performance whether they've got a full sp bar or not - in order to balance it out with a feat that only kicks in when you've got 0 sp left doesn't make sense imho. In fact, I have to question the sanity of whoever thought of this solution.

[Sarezar]

Echoes of Power is an insignificant bonus because:

- It only adds a tiny bit more dps in boss fights for certain characters (not all casters will benefit from this).
- By the time you are that close to 0 SP it means that either:
a) you are near a shrine, therefore you don't need the 12 sp
b) something's gone terribly wrong, therefore you won't be able to reach the next shrine just by regening
those 12 sp
c) it's a boss fight and you may be able to do some minor extra damage (generally force spells for
Archmages will work in most cases, but other cheap fire/acid/cold spells may not work on many bosses, magic missile may
not be memorised/learned by some casters, PMs won't care as they'll use their HP spells.
- It is mainly a bonus for the first 5-6 levels in the game.
- It is mainly going to help healers that don't already have better ways of cheap healing to reach the next shrine.

Therefore, Echoes of Power should not be used as a reason to nerf something.

PS. I don't really care about the SP increases or decreases, I just wanted to state why I think EoP is close to useless in its current form

[quityourjobs]

I had no idea Evocation would be in such dire need of nerfs....

What's next, Illusion?

[Requiro]

I had no idea Evocation would be in such dire need of nerfs....

What's next, Illusion?

No. Shortsword and Deepwood Sniper PrE - they are too powerful

[fyrst.grok]

Increasing the spell costs of the AM's SLA - which will seriously in turn affect their performance whether they've got a full sp bar or not - in order to balance it out with a feat that only kicks in when you've got 0 sp left doesn't make sense imho. In fact, I have to question the sanity of whoever thought of this solution.

This..

I mean.. ***.. the AM was weak and a niche pre even before this..
I have (soon had) an evoker/enchanter build.. Even with the wizard pastlife, maxed force and every cheap SLA I could take he's not much of a dps.. But at least he could compete with the PM's when it came to cheap damage output.

The buff to pm's, the nerf to hypno.. Those was a knee to the groin.. This.. Probably going to tr into sorc or if the nerf-for-no-reason-fest continues - look for another game

[Aeolwind]

This..

I mean.. ***.. the AM was weak and a niche pre even before this..
I have (soon had) an evoker/enchanter build.. Even with the wizard pastlife, maxed force and every cheap SLA I could take he's not much of a dps.. But at least he could compete with the PM's when it came to cheap damage output.

The buff to pm's, the nerf to hypno.. Those was a knee to the groin.. This.. Probably going to tr into sorc or if the nerf-for-no-reason-fest continues - look for another game

Sorc's will be next as soon as someone realizes the amount of actual damage they can put out. So, TR and level fast.

[VorpalLaugh]

Maybe the devs figured out some sort of uber evocation AM build that completely overpowers all other builds

[Diib]

I agree this seems to be a bad change. Why not nerf ranged damage as well seeing as you buffed the distance ranged sneak attack works from? Weakening sub-standard play styles only hurts people trying unique builds... this adds nothing to the game and only makes it more cookie cutter.

Please reconsider the AM changes.