ToD PUGing: Why Kill Sully?

[Pallol_One-Eye]

Thanks for the quick response. So at this time, I am fail. Good to know before I am asked to give it a shot, lol.

[Wrendd]

I think that many people take the view of "We are here to kill Devils, Sulu is here, Sulu is a Devil, kill Sulu". It just does not feel right to me if you do not kill him. I understand the arguments relating to why you should kite him and make it easier, but DDO tends to be pretty easy already, why take the easy road all the time?

[Tobril]

Failed TODs come down to leadership IMHO as well as people actually listening. . .

This.

I've lead 11 random people to victory. (really random, not "hey who is in channel" but "who the hell is this guy" random) The key is making sure everyone knows what they need to be doing, not just the tanks/healers.

The only real problem I run into is when the maintank dies and the leader had no backup plan.


As to the sulu chest, one of my +4 tomes came from it and I lost two rolls on other occasions. Worth doing.

[Tobril]

Thanks for the quick response. So at this time, I am fail. Good to know before I am asked to give it a shot, lol.

While not enough for sulu, I've seen casters intim-hold orthons to CC them and maintain a full mana bar. Might be something fun for you to try sometime, just make sure you kill enough to keep stable.

[Pallol_One-Eye]

While not enough for sulu, I've seen casters intim-hold orthons to CC them and maintain a full mana bar. Might be something fun for you to try sometime, just make sure you kill enough to keep stable.

Good response, thanks. I have been doing this with limited success as I am only lvl 18 presently. Intim, FtS and woo-stick or w/p on a limited basis.

Once I get all geared up, mass holds to follow. The intim tends to make VoD a breeze as well as I can pull Orthon duty to free up a spot for whatever alse the party wants to bring.

Thanks again for the idea.

[Tobril]

Good response, thanks. I have been doing this with limited success as I am only lvl 18 presently. Intim, FtS and woo-stick or w/p on a limited basis.

Once I get all geared up, mass holds to follow. The intim tends to make VoD a breeze as well as I can pull Orthon duty to free up a spot for whatever alse the party wants to bring.

Thanks again for the idea.

I do, however, presume nearly unlimited mana due to a decent shield, torc, CCopp, etc. (orthons arrow volleys are wonderful for regen)

[Pallol_One-Eye]

I do, however, presume nearly unlimited mana due to a decent shield, torc, CCopp, etc. (orthons arrow volleys are wonderful for regen)

Decent shield..check
ConcOpp...working on it
Torc...fail in 12 runs so far. I love losing rolls to rangers here.

[Quikster]

Torc...fail in 12 runs so far. I love losing rolls to rangers here.

Waaaa Maybe Ill roll up a ranger just for farming dq with you. How many torqs can one fit in a fully upgraded bank?

[Pallol_One-Eye]

Waaaa Maybe Ill roll up a ranger just for farming dq with you. How many torqs can one fit in a fully upgraded bank?

You cut me Quik, you cut me bad........

Not my fault I have **** luck rolling and the PL is allowing Rangers to roll against Arcanes and Clerics.

My 1st life Sorc was squishy and sadly undergeared. The TR decision was kind of a snap decision, so now I pay the price.

[Tobril]

Waaaa Maybe Ill roll up a ranger just for farming dq with you. How many torqs can one fit in a fully upgraded bank?

Somewhere on Sarlona is a ranger who did this exact thing to my paladin even after I explained why I wanted it. (we had no arcanes or divines, so no pure blue-bar got "robbed") The thing is currently sitting in his bank "just in case".

40ish runs later (a few solo) and I got it at last.


@Pallol - You'll get it eventually, just keep at it. With good melee you could probably intim orthons OK, but I'd worry about running out of mana in a pug situation.

[Pallol_One-Eye]

Somewhere on Sarlona is a ranger who did this exact thing to my paladin even after I explained why I wanted it. (we had no arcanes or divines, so no pure blue-bar got "robbed") The thing is currently sitting in his bank "just in case".

40ish runs later (a few solo) and I got it at last.


@Pallol - You'll get it eventually, just keep at it. With good melee you could probably intim orthons OK, but I'd worry about running out of mana in a bad pug situation.

Agreed, this is a concern of mine as well. I guess I just grind for now and see where that will get me.

Fwiw, I only PUG ToD if there are people I already know in group. If I don't know a soul, then I keep the h3ll away, ya know? I fixed that for ya.....

[Samiusbot]

You cut me Quik, you cut me bad........

Not my fault I have **** luck rolling and the PL is allowing Rangers to roll against Arcanes and Clerics.

My 1st life Sorc was squishy and sadly undergeared. The TR decision was kind of a snap decision, so now I pay the price.

A Torc is great for any/everyone with a blue bar. Can't begrudge someone from opening it up to anyone with one.

Got mine on #20 of my first TR life, I forget how many runs I whiffed on before that.

tip: Offer more kittens up to the loot gods. I would say 2 full litters would be about right for a torc.

[Tobril]

tip: Offer more kittens up to the loot gods. I would say 2 full litters would be about right for a torc.

I killed a lot more kittens than that, if you know what I mean...

[LordPiglet]

A Torc is great for any/everyone with a blue bar. Can't begrudge someone from opening it up to anyone with one.

Got mine on #20 of my first TR life, I forget how many runs I whiffed on before that.

tip: Offer more kittens up to the loot gods. I would say 2 full litters would be about right for a torc.

Sure Torq is nice for anyone but a blue bar, however if you have Divines and Arcanes looking for them why would you roll against them on a ranger. Sure if it drops in your name, take it, but if not I wouldn't roll against a divine for it. I even put my shard up (and now I have a divine and wish I had it). Besides, my necklace will be for ToD necklaces.

Aly can now run up to 624 mana, for passing out raid buffs if need be. Even when I was at 424, I rarely run low. Only time I was ever low was actually kiting pt 5 with CE on.

Edit: Back on Topic, but ToD I was in had 2 light monks handling Orthons (Jade Strike) and preventing stuns. Seems like I see problems when the healer gets stunned and the tanks drops. I've been in groups that recovered but that last one was pretty pot heavy.

[fredericko]

i dont know what everyone else's experience with ToD PUGing the final fight is, but from my experience it seems to be 'a smooth run' only around 1/2 the time. not always ideal, but at least no major crisis during. ... so anyways, whats with the fixation of killing Sully in ToD PUGs?

I agree to much of what been said: responsability is shared between lazy (or misinformed) PUG leaders and bad listeners. And PUGs kill Sally because, quite frankly, it isn't hard if you know the score.

More often that not, it boils down to reading between the lines when one chooses which LFM to hit. Many things that cause a wipe on more casual PUGs are of little to no consequence on more structured ones. Take yesterday's ToD: judge tank died on part 1, both kiters died on part 2 with backup kiter dying almost immediatly before main kiter could take a rez (a bb and some wings and nothing happened), and Horoth broke loose while group was DPSing Sully after main tank fell incapped. And still it was a zero pots run.

[Pallol_One-Eye]

I agree to much of what been said: responsability is shared between lazy (or misinformed) PUG leaders and bad listeners. And PUGs kill Sally because, quite frankly, it isn't hard if you know the score.

More often that not, it boils down to reading between the lines when one chooses which LFM to hit. Many things that cause a wipe on more casual PUGs are of little to no consequence on more structured ones. Take yesterday's ToD: judge tank died on part 1, both kiters died on part 2 with backup kiter dying almost immediatly before main kiter could take a rez (a bb and some wings and nothing happened), and Horoth broke loose while group was DPSing Sully after main tank fell incapped. And still it was a zero pots run.

I gotta say man, that sounds like some fun times right there. Must have been some serious leadership to get that boat back on course after that.

[protokon]

Unfortunately the AC tank has become 'not the cool thing' and people always want to be 'the one holding aggo cuz I have more dips yo!' <-- quote from in-game. Yet an AC tank makes that raid such an easy loot run its unbelievable. Horc Barbs holding Horoth = THE SUCK. I don't care about your DPS when holding him. My pesky little elf ranger can hold him with DPS and has enough HP to survive. Big HP and DPS doesn't mean you still aren't a mana sponge.

being a DPS tank doesn't mean being a mana sponge.

my half-orc barb is sitting at 208% healing amp, I regularly tank horoth with little strain on healers (almost completely scroll-healed throughout the entire fight).

Hey, on top of that Horoth doesn't bolt across the room because I got stunned and missed an intimidate. fancy that.

[grodon9999]

being a DPS tank doesn't mean being a mana sponge.

my half-orc barb is sitting at 208% healing amp, I regularly tank horoth with little strain on healers (almost completely scroll-healed throughout the entire fight).

Hey, on top of that Horoth doesn't bolt across the room because I got stunned and missed an intimidate. fancy that.

Healing-amp is a barbarian's AC.

[Samiusbot]

Sure Torq is nice for anyone but a blue bar, however if you have Divines and Arcanes looking for them why would you roll against them on a ranger.

If the guy that pulled it lets me roll on a ranger, I would. Even against a divine or arcane.

Why? Well lets start with what do i use my mana on? self healing, buffing, and combat. If i use my mana actively and I am some place where it might proc, I might want it on over some other neck slot item. Or in short I have a use in mind so I roll.

If a Enduring Conviction or a SOS drops and they let my Divine or Arcane roll on it I might for the same reason. I have a use in mind. If I don't have a reason then I don't roll or I offer it up for roll. More then once I wish I had an item later when I developed a plan to put it to use.

Does class A have more need for an item then class B? No. Need is not a class thing but a play style thing. If you want a item and it is up for roll and your allowed to roll on it, do it. If not thanks for letting some else have better odds. But saying you shouldn't roll on an item because you believe some other class/s can use it more is not cool, unless your the current owner of said loot setting terms for rollers.

[protokon]

Healing-amp is a barbarian's AC.

heck yeah. I got a buddy who has a monk tank build he designed, he maintains over 800HP and a ridiculous amount of healing amp - along with 40 STR and some hate gear, he's able to hold aggro.

a bard can heal him with a heal scroll for just under 600hp, pretty impressive. Yes, he takes quite a bit of damage but the high hp / high healing amp combo is a funny looking tactic, to see his hp bar jump around that much.