New Guild Policy- any input is appreciated

[Eladiun]

Raids that absolutely require a healer to drink a pot will require a payment of 1,000PP upon acceptance to the group to be used for healing scrolls, pots, fix mass newb! Pugs do not get in unless they pay!

The person with the star is required to collect the funds and distribute said funds to required healers at the end of the quest, even if that person passes the star!

If a wipe occurs, funds will be collected again if pots were used.

If caster has to drink pots to complete the raid, said caster will not be responsible for the 1,000PP and will receive a share of the funds.
a. If caster drops 84 firewalls when 14 are needed, we will make fun of you and not give you any caching.

Raids/Quests that fit in the above mentioned;
ToD
Epic Chronoscope
Some Epic quests

There are no raids that absolutely require a healer to drink a pot.

[Mattat]

jwdaniels, you speak the truth! Thats my problem with this policy. it speaks poorly of our guild ability, and we truly are a good raid guild, and in the few months we've been together accomplished leaps and bounds over some other "epic" guilds.

I have proposed this - keepin track of who is running and not donating, then expelling the greedy. sound like alot of work and a bit extreme, but the goal is awesome players ruling epic content.

keep that input coming.

[Loromir]

I would not have a problem helping reimburse for consumables (After the quest is over), but only if said caster or healer did not run past shrines and mana pools along the way. If they refused to use a shrine because it took to long, then no contribution from me.

[MalikiGoddess]

I don't play on Orien, but I know that on Ghallanda I am amazed if I ever get a pot donation from a non-guildy. Hence, why you see less and less healers joining PUGs and more and more PUGs failing. The good healers got sick of being poor trying to keep up with healing PUGs and were retired to the good life aka Guild only Runs.

[Mattat]

Thirans and Eladiun: I agree. but for sake of argument i left that in the wording to differentiate that the policy is about the few harder raids, were not talkin about reavers fate here
but truly, no raid REQUIRES pots, i agree

[Thriand]

There are no raids/quests in this game that "absolutely" require mana pots. If things go poorly feel free to help contribute, but an upfront charge is almost always a bad idea.

[Mattat]

If anyone has input on my booting the no donating , plz help. either let me know the detials if you do something similar, or directing me to such a resource would be great.

[ZealotBlade]

sry herz, im doin my best to keep the guild name out of it in hopes that this gets rectified.
Im not here to burn the guild, its a great guild, save a few minor faults.In fact we've made mistakes before and fixed them. This post is to get the big picture. From what Ive gathered Im not the only one who feels ultimately that this will cost us rep and good players, and I cant stand by and let that happen. Im not even an officer, but Ive been with this guild since the day they started, its my home. I dont want the idiom to change, its the people that make the guild, and not the other way around. TY all

Alright, so if I'm understanding correctly, you are a member of guild X.
Guild X is planning on introducing the policy you outlined in your first post.
You as a long term member of this guild are heading to the forums to seek advice and suggestions on a better way to implement said policy.

Assuming those points are true, then I'm not sure how productive your thread is going to be. Since we don't know the actual name of the guild in question, or it's members it's hard to make any serious comments about your raiding plan. A more productive way to go about it may be to try and pm leaders of the big raid focused guilds and see how they keep everything going. Then, take that information and use it to develop a more effective plan that your guild can agree on.

Now with that said, any guild plan that forces a payment before each raid, is unlikely to go over well. Rather, you should be encouraging fellow guild members to donate any spare pots they have, or plat for scrolls, ect...

[squeek1984]

I play a non healer: Can I have plats to fund my GS items? I mean, the +45hp for example from a hp item would be greatly beneficial to raids I join. And the MIN2/Lit2 weapon would also help the party beat down bosses and mobs alike much faster. Oh, and I need plats to fund my tome addiction. And my friends 'The Pugs' need any Hearts Of Wood the party comes across to fix the infinity build mistakes they made to LR/GR/TR so they don't have 250hp at level 20.

Where would you draw the line? Just mana pots? Just blue bars?

Every class has its costs. While Mana pots are a little overpriced on the AH (at least on Orien), theres no reason why I would ever feel obliged to give them to healers. Especially in PUGs where you don't know if the healer poorly built/geared his or her character. If I feel that people are doing an exceptional job, AND I have the spare spots kicking around, then I'll toss you some.

[Crann]

Can I have plats to fund my GS items? I mean, the +45hp for example from a hp item would be greatly beneficial to raids I join. And the MIN2/Lit2 weapon would also help the party beat down bosses and mobs alike much faster.

+1 QFT.

(X Base mats + 12 smalls + 12 mediums + 24 larges) x 4 swords(2 minII and 2 LitII)

Wondering what a price tag for all those materials would add up to. Add that to having a weapon for every occasion (2 vorpals/smiters/disruptors/banishers/and a pair of banes for every boss) Then compare that to the cost of Pots.

As alot of others have posted, if you rely that heavily on pots, then something is wrong.

In the grand scheme of things, my healers are very much in the black on my virtual spreadsheet of character "costs."

[Carpone]

Raids that absolutely require a healer to drink a pot will require a payment of 1,000PP upon acceptance to the group to be used for healing scrolls, pots, fix mass newb! Pugs do not get in unless they pay!

Raids/Quests that fit in the above mentioned;
ToD
Epic Chronoscope
Some Epic quests

ToD elite with Suulo optional is the only raid where healers need to use consumables. Without the optional, you definitely don't need to use consumables, even on elite.

The only epic that may require consumable usage is eADQ because it has a ******** amount of trash and only one shrine.

If you're a healer and constantly have to chug mana pots, find better people to play with. Well built and well geared DPS toons relieve healers of the consumable burden.

[Therigar]

Raids that absolutely require a healer to drink a pot will require a payment of 1,000PP upon acceptance to the group to be used for healing scrolls, pots, fix mass newb!

Well, since there are no quests that absolutely require a healer to drink a potion then we're all safe.

BTW, what guild so that I know who not to run with. Or, maybe you can collect for my characters too to pay for repair bills, healing potions and wands used when your healer is futzing about trying to figure out how to conserve spell points and use them wisely, etc.

I know, how about I pay myself to join your raids that way we're even from the git go.

[elg582]

I'm in this guild, and I figure it's OK: I'll pay 1kpp for those 3 raids, then I'll sell my major SP pots to our healers for 10kpp each, instead of just donating them like I did before.

Granted, this will probably destroy the guild, but if they're going to be greedy, then so am I, and then what's the point of having a guild?

Anyone recruiting?

[Mattat]

Wow, great input. i plan pming the raid guilds as was suggested, but in the meantime I think taking over donations and keeping track of who donates and who doesnt is the best decision. this may change if it becomes too much to manage, but ive spoken with my guild leader and will put it to vote at next officers meeting. this way were not charging (blech) for raiding nor taxing those who already do the right thing.
We'll see how it goes, hopefullyits as easy as it sounds.

All this being said, everyone makes mistakes, so please dont hate my guild for a bad choice. The problem of guildies not takin care of healers after bad runs is an issue so I understand putting a policy in play to address it. We just miscued Thanks for your help toward a constructive outcome.

[Crann]

so please dont hate my guild for a bad choice.

I missed where you said who your guild is.

If you are going to implement a policy of collecting plat up front from pugs, then you should save people some grief now and let us know what guild you are speaking of.

Frequent puggers such as myself, and others, can then make informed decisions about joining said raids. If you want to have a discussion about something of this nature, at least let us know who you are.

[Mattat]

if they stick with the policy ( which hasnt been enforced yet due to bad feedback ) Ill tell you which guild. Butif they change they policy it will be moot, and disaster will have been averted. ty

[Lleren]

If anyone has input on my booting the no donating , plz help. either let me know the detials if you do something similar, or directing me to such a resource would be great.

If you are booting the non-donating. Then it is not really a donation, is it?

Look, if this is going to be impemented in your Guild, and you don't want it to be, convince the Officers.

If you really disagree with the upcoming policy, and cannot convince the Officers, then remove yourself from the Guild.

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Don't get me wrong, I'd pay some plat to burn certain Raid timers twice a week with a guaranteed success and a fast Raid crew. But if yer needing funding for pots, then ya can't really guarantee success in my eyes.

Plat is easy, Trust is hard. If an Officer of your Guild is reading this: Don't waste yer Reputation for short term problems. Handle this another way.

[amethystdragon]

I think I understand the basic concept of what your guild is wanting to do; you are wanting to find a way to raise funds to keep healers stocked up on items that they need to help make some of the more "difficult" content go smoother. If that is what you are trying to do, then I applaud your thoughts and effort. However, I like most everyone else here, think that charging plat to a pug member is a bad idea. I do have a suggestion on how your guild might go about raising funds for healers.

This idea will require a high haggle toon, more often than not a bard, of someone that guild leader and officers trust. Ask guild members to once a week, or month, or raid (this should be agreed upon by the guild) to send items (value and type of items should be agreed upon by guild) to said haggle toon. Then said haggle toon would sell items and buy supplies as needed. The said haggle toon would be able to keep track of who is donating, since most things would be mailed to them; then if your guild feels that everyone should be donating, you will know who is and isn't and take action as you see fit.

I use to belong to a guild that did something, similar to this. My cleric in that guild never had to worry about supplies, because if I needed something all I had to do was say I needed it.

[Eladiun]

Thirans and Eladiun: I agree. but for sake of argument i left that in the wording to differentiate that the policy is about the few harder raids, were not talkin about reavers fate here
but truly, no raid REQUIRES pots, i agree

When we were pioneering epic Chrono, it was made clear that anyone in the group was expected to tip back to the healers until we had a viable strategy that did not cost excessive pots. No one had any issues with this...if they did they would not have had a spot as it was we had 20 people wanting 12 spots in the initial learning group. The first 3 were very expensive on resources, now we usually expend 0 pots.

As for the code of conduct, when I drafted ours and our raid primer, I strongly worded it as suggestion...

When in guild or public groups (especially Raids), please help support the group with any resources you can. If things go poorly healers can expend a great deal of resources in scrolls, wands, and SP pots. Contributing wands, scrolls, or pots to the healers is always looked upon favorably.

...it should be enough to plant the idea in the heads of those that don't know better.. Most players should know better. On raids, that cost resources beyond normal for one reason or another if I am leading I make it a point to call attention to it so members of the raid realize it. Melees often pay little attention to blue bars. This usually nets more donated pots than the healers spent. Guild groups should respect their healers automatically with out it being mandatory. If you have an issue with greedy members or members who do not help, then they get low priority when filling raid spots.

[dredre9987]

Still wanting a PM of the guild name please.