Still no 32 point build in the shop?

[ashurum]

Both sides should just say what them mean instead of this BS getting spouted back and forth.

The people against the 32pt build being in the store don't want new players to learn. They think it is unfair that someone doesn't have to suffer through the favor grind that they had to.

The people for the 32pt build being in the store don't care about keeping players around or helping Turbine's bottom line. They just want something easier.

[Delt]

To put it as simply as I can: to ME grinding is not fun.

And on another note indirectly related to the OP's topic: I'm not currently spending any money on Turbine's games. Zero. None. Nada. That doesn't hurt ME in the least. Who does it hurt? The guys with the 32pts who don't want me to give Turbine money for at best, a +1 to hit, or DC or one save. Huh?

So a question to everyone AGAINST it: How would it impact YOUR gameplay if I was able to purchase 32pts? I mean, you'll still lead the kill count because I am after all a gimp player (the person behind the toon). And if I was adding to Turbine's apparently depleted DDO coffers, wouldn't that benefit YOU?

There is nothing to really grind to be honest - you'll earn or come close to earning 1750 during the normal course of gameplay and levelling. There is enough content at this point to make it that way.

It is a grind if that's your sole focus, I suppose, and if the actual playing of the game is irrelevant until you have 32pt builds in hand...

...but really, if that's your stance, that's your problem.

At the end of the day, it's an unlockable perk for players that have played through a significant portion of the game. Does it effect MY game if you can buy it? No, not really. But it doesn't effect my game if you can buy all your raid gear either -- but I still think that would be a stupid idea.

[Quanefel]

To put it as simply as I can: to ME grinding is not fun.

And on another note indirectly related to the OP's topic: I'm not currently spending any money on Turbine's games. Zero. None. Nada. That doesn't hurt ME in the least. Who does it hurt? The guys with the 32pts who don't want me to give Turbine money for at best, a +1 to hit, or DC or one save. Huh?

So a question to everyone AGAINST it: How would it impact YOUR gameplay if I was able to purchase 32pts? I mean, you'll still lead the kill count because I am after all a gimp player (the person behind the toon). And if I was adding to Turbine's apparently depleted DDO coffers, wouldn't that benefit YOU?

You aint going to start holding your breathe into they give you want you want, are you?

[Cyr]

/signed

There is NO reason why 32 point builds should not be available in the shop. In fact not being able to make a toon to it's full potential until you run something with some other toon is one of the main complaints I used to hear about the game from new players. (Old players it was content/bugs/exploits).

[Aesop]

Both sides should just say what them mean instead of this BS getting spouted back and forth.

The people against the 32pt build being in the store don't want new players to learn. They think it is unfair that someone doesn't have to suffer through the favor grind that they had to.

The people for the 32pt build being in the store don't care about keeping players around or helping Turbine's bottom line. They just want something easier.

My personal thing is that I have 32 point builds on 4 servers at this point ... and I've just started characters on Cannith.

I do not like that you have to play a character up to that point and then rebuild a new character to gain the benefits... its almost like wasting your time and some people are completely turned off by it. When respecs come out and they have options in place to upgrade 8 point character to 32 point characters then I think the problem will subside... but now its just annoying for some.

Aesop

[Lorien_the_First_One]

The people for the 32pt build being in the store don't care about keeping players around or helping Turbine's bottom line. They just want something easier.

Well that's just dumb. I honestly don't see why anyone would quit over them adding it to the store. I suspect anyone who does has other issues with the game. As for Turbine's bottom line, this should help it buy moving some more TPs.

[PSU93]

... Would you be better served if Turbine had a payed service to come to your house to play your character for you? How much would you be willing to pay for that?

I'd be willing to pay about $8/hour for that.
If it was a hot girl wearing skimpy clothes, about $15/hour.
If she stuck around afterwards to clean the house and make dinner, about $30/hour.

[Ephemeral]

Both sides should just say what them mean instead of this BS getting spouted back and forth.

The people against the 32pt build being in the store don't want new players to learn. They think it is unfair that someone doesn't have to suffer through the favor grind that they had to.

The people for the 32pt build being in the store don't care about keeping players around or helping Turbine's bottom line. They just want something easier.

What is it with this thread and strawmen?

My assumptions:

i. for a veteran player, levelling a character up to 20 takes a few days, particularly on a server where full twink gear is available for the alt

ii. raid gear is extremely time consuming to obtain, and is bound to character

iii. many people with 28 pt builds from the start of the game have built up lots of raid gear on their toons

iv. any new toons made by people with 1750 favor are 32pt toons. If they had the option to make 28pt builds instead, they would choose to make 32pt builds because 32>28

The way that I see this particular matter is:

- new players don't want to have to grind out favor for a 28pt build when most of the players around them are using 32pt builds

- new players are predominantly casual, by which it is meant they have fewer play hours available to them in the week than hardcore players

- Turbine is aware that the no of casual / new players is a huge untapped market for them, and it represents the only real way to grow their DDO revenues

- 'Earning' 1750 does not take any special skill or effort; it merely takes time. If you are a veteran player you can grind out 1750 faster than if you are new, but ultimately its a matter of time spent running and rerunning quests



Based on these assumptions, my conclusions are that in prinicple, the only thing that veteran players 'lose' by making 32pt builds available is that their current 28pt'rs cannot be rerolled to 32pt without losing their bound loot. The bound loot in truth represents the real time investment made by the veterans, not the fact that their characters are level 20.

They don't like it that new players could potentially have 32pt characters bought from the store because they can't do the same for their existing 28pt'rs without losing the loot. This is the driver behind the calls for a respec mechanism before 32pt builds are buyable.


My view on this is slightly different. I consider that toons are ranked in this order:

32 pt builds with lots of uber gear > 28 pt builds with lots of uber gear >>> 32 pt builds with no gear > 28 pt builds with no gear

The uber gear is worth way more than 4 build points, and much of it takes days, weeks, or even months to accumulate.

What the veterans see when they don't want the buyable 32pt favor is the first half of that line, i.e.

32 pt builds with lots of uber gear > 28 pt builds with lots of uber gear

and they don't like the idea that their 28 pt builds are in theory worse than a newcomer buying 32 pt builds today and then getting all that loot. They didn't have the option with their first toon, so its unfair. This misses the point of course that the newcomer will be spending a whole load of time grinding that gear starting from today. If the veterans really wanted to, they could reroll their current 28pt'rs and get the loot again, but they don't want to do the grind again (understandably so).


What the newcomers see is the second half of that line, i.e.

32 pt builds with no gear > 28 pt builds with no gear

And they don't want to have 28 pt builds because they know that 32pt builds are better, and that their first toon is throwaway if they really care about having the 4 points.


The reason why I think 32pt builds should be buyable is because I see the middle of that line, i.e.:

28 pt builds with lots of uber gear >>> 32 pt builds with no gear

Whichever way you spin it, a 28pt build with full access to raid gear, +2 and +3 tomes etc, is better than a naked 32pt build. I am happy for 32pt builds to be made available to newcomers, because they will have characters they can get attached to, and over time they can aim to build up uber loot like the veterans.

[Mani]

C'mon, there are lot of players interested in paying to get 32 point build from the store instead of reaching 1750 favor (just like drow and favored soul) and still there isn't this option ?
Turbine, are you sure you want our money? Seems you don't like them (I am a former european player, already a VIP on DDO:Eberron Unlimited but I have no time to farm 1750 and then do again the character, I'm ready to pay to buy 32 pnt build).

I’m curious… How much would you be willing to pay for 32 pt build access? Whats a fair price?
would it be worth 50$ bucks? 100$ 1000$ Priceless?

[lucien123]

You aint going to start holding your breathe into they give you want you want, are you?

/sigh

There was neither threat nor implied tantrum in my post. I don't CARE if Turbine offers it or not, because right now I'm playing or not playing the F2P content available to me.

My statement remains the same, right now Turbine doesn't have anything I would spend money on in their store. Now if half-orcs or artificer was available in the store I would drop money on that also. The half-orc or artificer (or druid) options are at best months away, if ever. 32pts however is available now.

More options in the store gives me more options to spend money on Turbine's product which means MORE content for everyone.

[BattleCircle]

You people do realize you are talking about 4 build points, which translates to 1 main stat point, and one dump stat. And you honestly think that makes your toon gimp?

Not by a long shot.

Players make their toons gimp, not build points.

The 32pt for 1750 favor is a reward.

Mostly it is a reward for playing and learning the game, and it is a very satisfying reward at that.

I am sure that eventually you will get your way, and 32 point builds will be a purchasable perk. And if/when it does happen I hope that the price is very expensive, like the cost of 2 character slots at the least.

[balorlord]

Hey R3 we paying VIPS dont like you Freebies wanting to buy the **** KEY WORD "EARN IT!"

[lucien123]

Hey R3 we paying VIPS dont like you Freebies wanting to buy the **** KEY WORD "EARN IT!"

Interesting. Turbine however seems to have based the future existence of this game on that very concept that, according to you, paying VIPS don't like; i.e., "Freebies buying the ****.

It is essential for the future survival of this game that Turbine comes up with options "Freebies" would be willing to drop money on. This is the business model that Turbine chose to keep the game afloat, because there weren't enough people willing (for whatever reason) to pay a monthly sub.

My question still stands. How does it negatively impact any VIP if more options are made available in the store? How does it positively impact if more options are available for "Freebies" to spend money on?

I think that should be the focus of the debate. Is it really relevant that it's EASY to grind out the favor? Or that's it just +1 to hit? If some sucker (raises hand) wants to spend money on the game that you love, which will allow Turbine to produce more content, why aren't you behind that 100 percent?

[Mani]

C'mon, there are lot of players interested in paying to get 32 point build from the store instead of reaching 1750 favor (just like drow and favored soul) and still there isn't this option ?
Turbine, are you sure you want our money? Seems you don't like them (I am a former european player, already a VIP on DDO:Eberron Unlimited but I have no time to farm 1750 and then do again the character, I'm ready to pay to buy 32 pnt build).

Well I don’t really care if the DDO store has 32 pts. for sell. I mean as long as they were selling it for a fair price like 600$ bucks. But if it was going for 20 bucks It would be offensive to vet players.

[transtemporal]

I used to be a fan of the "let everyone buy everything" idea but I think I've changed my mind on 32pt builds. Putting it in the store makes it seem like a cash grab on turbines part. New player? No ones gonna force you to buy 32pt builds... but some might say you were gimped, I'm sure thats not true. I'm sure your 28pt toons are perfectly fine.

[Quanefel]

/sigh

There was neither threat nor implied tantrum in my post. I don't CARE if Turbine offers it or not, because right now I'm playing or not playing the F2P content available to me.

My statement remains the same, right now Turbine doesn't have anything I would spend money on in their store. Now if half-orcs or artificer was available in the store I would drop money on that also. The half-orc or artificer (or druid) options are at best months away, if ever. 32pts however is available now.

More options in the store gives me more options to spend money on Turbine's product which means MORE content for everyone.

Far be it for me to tell someone how to spend their own money. Even if that person is being nickel and dimed for things they don't actually need to spend money on. If anything, it is humorous.

Personally, I think you and others are better than that. That all of you are fully capable of acheiving the goal of 1750 favor for 32 point builds. If you need it. Sadly, I do not think many of you understand that. I also think the desire to be "equal" to Vet players has overridden common sense in some people.

I will agree that the more money you and people such as yourself spend in the store will probably bring us more content in the end. Yet for all that money you'll spend, how long will these people last in game once they grow bored of buying their way to the top or to "equality" in an MMO like this?

Also, like I have said many times to others with the same beliefs in the store: Open your wallet and don't ask questions.

[Uska]

Well I don’t really care if the DDO store has 32 pts. for sell. I mean as long as they were selling it for a fair price like 600$ bucks. But if it was going for 20 bucks It would be offensive to vet players.

Actually if they are going to sell it about 20.00 would be right. Not that I am for selling it but if they do they dont need to make it insane but I dont want it to be 5.00 either.

[zedorf]

I'm a casual player these days. Been playing on Cannith since day 1 and I'm now after 3 weeks up to around 200 favors. I'm not gonna have time to "learn" the game by reaching 1750 and then after that start another toon. I just want to focus on one toon as I'm sure many other casual players will. And I don't want to know that my toon after reaching lvl 20 with loads of bound gear, is a "lesser build"! Is that so difficult to understand?

Ok, this toon I'm playing now will not have that problem as I BOUGHT a Drow and made him a caster. However, I really wanted to play a human monk - but that is one combination that I know would benefit from 32pts. So in reality, I'm playing a toon I find less fun and thus the game less fun.

Btw, I've played fairly hard core in Europe, unlocked 1750 favors and capped 4 toons there (when lvl cap was 16) sp pls, no advices on how splendid 28pt builds you can do.

I'm sure Turbine can find some sort of compromise to keep everyone fairly happy. Completely change that 1750 favor. A +2 tome isn't worth as much as it used to be.

[Ephemeral]

Well I don’t really care if the DDO store has 32 pts. for sell. I mean as long as they were selling it for a fair price like 600$ bucks. But if it was going for 20 bucks It would be offensive to vet players.

995 TP would be a fair price, on a per character basis.

This compares to 1495 TP for a tome of supreme ability +1.

[Ephemeral]

You people do realize you are talking about 4 build points, which translates to 1 main stat point, and one dump stat. And you honestly think that makes your toon gimp?

Not by a long shot.

Players make their toons gimp, not build points.

The 32pt for 1750 favor is a reward.

Mostly it is a reward for playing and learning the game, and it is a very satisfying reward at that.

I am sure that eventually you will get your way, and 32 point builds will be a purchasable perk. And if/when it does happen I hope that the price is very expensive, like the cost of 2 character slots at the least.

If thats the case, why is it unlocked per server?

2 character slots equivalent seems like a reasonable price to me. I'd actually price it slightly lower than that, at 995 TP but we're not talking a huge difference between that and 1190 TP.