Still no 32 point build in the shop?

[krud]

This statement alone makes me laugh. First off you have now clue what my build or anyone's build may be. Your right being able to dump a few extra points into a meaningless stat is sure going to push me over the top. Or how about needing 6 points to hit an 18 on a stat, that extra 4 points giving me a 17 is really going to help isn't it? If you think having 28pts makes you gimp then you are and nothing is going to change that.

The converse of your arguement is IF it isn't such a big deal then why so much opposition to it? No argument over drow, why? It's the age-old "I had to walk 2 miles uphill, both ways, in a blinding snow storm, so should you." That is the only arguement I've seen for not having purchasable 32 pt (oh, and the slippery slope "give them all WoPs too" arguement).

What really needs to happen before they allow 32pt buys is a full respec option, upgradeable 28pt to 32pt, and rework the 1750 favor to be more character specific and remain meaningful. Allowing 32pt buys on its own is not a good idea .

[Bosco]

I look at it this way. It's probably going to happen. The best case scenario for it, since it will eventually happen, is that they put it up for sale at the same time they put a mechanic in place to upgrade the existing 28 point builds to 32s. I think that to do one without the other is going to be completely disrespectful of both groups.

Bah, I wear the one 28 point build I have on Argo with pride. I could really give a rats behind if someone has 20 more hp or plus one more to str. I am old school. He is my second toon ever created and I wouldn't ever dream of deleting him. I created a Dwarf Ranger back when rangers where the most hated class in the game. I rocked with him, and continue to destroy stuff. So this whole notion that Turbine needs to go back and respect all the 28 point builds is ridiculous.

Turbine needs to spend time coming out with the next mod not hand hold the vets, and pat them on the back, wisper in their ears "It's going to be ok, we are going to make you feel special."

If someone has a 28 point toon that isn't good enough, well chances are 4 more points won't help either.

[LoneRath]

I think the best solution would be to remove 32pt builds from the game entirely, with no grandfathering for VIPs.

If you do this you would have to make all the 32pt builds out there respec to 28pt. Otherwise there would always be the stigma that "if you had played the game X months ago you could have had a 32pt build, now you are stuck with 28pts."

The 32pt builds would ALWAYS be seen as being superior and everyone else that created after the removal is inherently "not as good". If you think it is bad now, remove 32pts from the game and see how many people quit or don't play when they find out about the perma-gimp new characters get compared to vets. I know I would absolutely never have played this game under those conditions.

When I first started this game I made a cleric, got drow, made a drow sorc, got 1750 after about a month total and started making all the characters I really wanted to make. The Cleric is stuck at 12, the drow sorc is still in use and almost capped again, but my most played classes are Monk, Ranger and Rogue 32pt builds.

I'm not a total min/max type, but I knew from the first day playing that I was going for 1750 favor. I made a throw-away character, the cleric, to get me there as quickly as possible as it is never hard to get a group with a cleric.

That cleric will probably never get played from here on out and I will end up rerolling him at a later date. He's not gimped, but he is also not as good as he could be. With the extra 4 points I could have a higher cha, int, or dex to make up for some of his weaker areas, but he is still 100% playable. I just can't get myself to bother because I know I could build him better now that I have 1750 favor.

That type of game mechanic is lame. Any in-game reward system that does not reward the character actually doing the work is, in a sense, broken. Make 750/1750/2500/4000 actually mean something for THAT character (maybe +1 tome, +2 tome, +3 tome, +4 tome?) and sell the drow, 32pt, FvS in the store. THAT makes sense and will actually make people WANT to grind the favor AND buy the offered store items.

There are probably a dozen really good ways to implement this, but the current favor system is not one of them.

Lone

[Gum]

I'm still in favor of Selling 32 point builds on a per server basis

600-900 TP per server.

I've earned it on 4 servers I think and don't really feel like doing it again on Cannith... I just want to play and not worry about it.

Why other people should care is beyond me.

Veterans had to earn it... so. You got the reward and didn't have to spend money on it ... congrats. You also got a +2 Tome.

Aesop

/Signed This would be my argument against those that had to earn it and don't feel as special now that it's accessible to the masses. You got it for free! lol What's not special about that? Furthermore, you got a tome out of it. I honestly don't see any problem whatsoever in having 32 point upgrades in the DDO store, and I got my grind on for 32 like everyone else. If not having to spend money on it and getting a +2 tome isn't enough for them, give them a pirate hat, lol. Yarg! That extra +4 to builds at creation is well worth it imo. Especially for advanced point distribution builds like Paladins or Monks. It's not game-breaking if you don't have it, but it's a personal choice to reach your full potential, and customization is king imo.

[Freeman]

This argument has been repeated several times now, and I don't believe it will change until there is an option to upgrade 28pt characters to 32pt characters. That is likely why they are finally planning to put some kind of respec mechanism into place in the next update. Once that is in place, they have many options available:

1. Sell both 32pt characters and respecs in the store, putting both veteran players and new players on equal footing.
2. Keep 32pt characters as a 1750 favor unlock, but allow the unlocking(non-drow) character a free upgrade to 32pts upon reaching it.(Eliminating the "I don't want to play a throw-away character argument")
3. Give everyone 32pt characters to start with and give all existing players free respecs to upgrade to them.
4. Probably others I haven't thought of.

My best guess is that they are trying to strike a balance between attracting new players and keeping the existing customers happy. They may also want to keep the 1750 favor goal in there as a carrot. Providing a way to upgrade the character that reaches it would be a much more reasonable solution than the current system which effectively penalizes the character that actually attains it.

I have no issues with allowing 32pt builds to be bought from the store provided I have the same options. The arguments that Drow and Favored Soul are already there don't really apply. Unlocking Drow through favor or through the store make your Dwarven barbarian less powerful. Unlocking Favored Soul doesn't mean your Human Cleric could be powerful. They just give you more options for gameplay. Only unlocking 32pt builds automatically means that any non-drow character you have would be better if you rerolled them. That kind of reward has never really made sense.

Of course, buying or unlocking 32pt characters won't make some people any less of a gimp. A perfectly built character will all the equipment will still be useless in the hands of an idiot.

[Banner]

Turbine has already said they have no intention of making 32pt builds purchasable.

How is it you have no time to play the game to get the favor needed?

Are you playing the game at all? If yes, then you have the time it's just up to you whether or not you want to put in the effort.

I consider Turbine's policy regarding 32 point builds to be "unfair", despite posts to the contrary - such as the above.

A 28 point build character is inherently disadvantaged relative to a 32 point character - whether or not the term "gimped" is used (the term is very appropriate, imo). Statements to the effect that a 28-point character is not "gimped" are either nonsense or arguments over terminology.

Asking a player to either "live with" a 28-point character or "earn" points or "favor" prior to creating a "real" character is absurd.

It is quite reasonable to reward long-term customers in some financial manner (e.g., giving them advantages that new customers must pay $ for).

However, the current policy is extremely ill conceived.

I have no interest in spending time on a "throw away" character, so that I can create my "real" one.

Suppose I have only an hour or two to play per week.

It is as if Turbine went out of their way to implement a policy turning that hour or two into work, rather than fun.

I could spend weeks or months "earning" the "right" to create my "real" character (any enjoyment of the task greatly minimized by my knowledge that I am playing a "throw away" character).

Once I finally created my "real" character, my enjoyment of playing him would be diminished by my foreknowledge of dungeon content (acquired during "fore play", prior to creation of the real character).

The joy and fun of encountering the unknown with a character I am "into" (who in a sense, "is me") is eliminated.

Even were I able to play only an hour or two per week, such time could be very enjoyable were I to have a sense of progress and adventure. It's fun acquiring a new spell or ability, but much less doing so with a character having an NPC "feel" - worse, an NPC that will disappear from play.

The issue is exacerbated for me by the fact that I really like to take time to "smell the roses". I am not into power-gaming. I am certainly not into running through a dungeon as quickly as possible to gain XP. I also enjoy soloing and duoing. This play style would further increase the time needed before "real" play could begin. And how much fun would it be to "smell the roses" with a disposable character? Or to power-play the disposable character, further intensifying the "task like" feel of earning "favor" - due to utilizing a play-style that I dislike.

The policy is so unfair and ill-considered that I have lost interest in DnD online -without even finishing the character creation process (and despite my yearning for a good MMORPG). I was unable to enjoy creating a character, knowing that he would be gimped and "throw away". Never before had I experienced lack of enthusiasm during character creation.

The policy is supported by people who A) have lots of time on their hands and/or have already "earned" the ability to create 32-point builds and B) have no interest in fairness - only in what benefits them (please - refrain from babbling about having "earned" the right to create non-gimped characters).

I consider myself ripped-off**. I would not have thought that such an absurd policy would even be considered by any company - or tolerated by customers (other than young kids).

I intend to steer clear of anything with the Turbine label.


** I spent $24 on optional features prior to creating my first character - then learned of this ridiculous policy minutes later.

[Delt]

I consider myself ripped-off**. I would not have thought that such an absurd policy would even be considered by any company - or tolerated by customers (other than young kids).

I intend to steer clear of anything with the Turbine label.


** I spent $24 on optional features prior to creating my first character - then learned of this ridiculous policy minutes later.

I laugh a little when I read things like this. 28pt builds aren't gimped and Drow (easily unlockable) are essentially a 32pt race.

When 1750 favor is reached, the NEW player recieves a +2 tome of their choice...chances are until they have a full stable of characters, that's a pretty rad gift (and assuming they pop it on their primary stat, it is worth more than 4 creation points). In the very, VERY long view, the 28 pt build may be off +1 in a primary stat at end game max (after +4 tomes, exceptional stat items, APs, etc). Maybe...they might be at an even number anyway.

Hearing new players stress about that single point discrepency that is likely YEARS away before they even start playing is funny to me...and I'm reminded that these players really don't understand the reality...they just get confused and see a disadvantage they don't understand and can't buy their way past.

Here's the deal...there are some advanced builds that basically require 32pt builds (stat intensive ones that require certain feats). New players shouldn't be trying these anyway, as they generally require +2 tomes and high end gear anyway. Nonetheless, Drow are statistically equivilent to 32pt builds....so if you want to try these advanced builds or you are simply phobic of 28pt builds, spend a few hours unlocking drow (or use the easy button and buy em). Problem solved - you can still earn 1750 on your drow and get a tome.

Drow aren't gimped (neither are 28pt builds, but whatever).

[vainangel]

Since you can buy most everything else, I think leaving 32pts as something you have to earn is fine.
I just made a 28pt build on Cannith, Ranger - Arcane Archer- twf as back up. He out does most everyone in his level range and plays better than the Drow I worked to 400 favor to unlock.

Now once I get to lvl 10 on that character I should either be close to or have 1750 favor. If you are F2P this might be hard to do. I get that. However it does appear that it is a tool to get people to unlock or buy adventure packs to get the favor for a 32pt build.

Seems very logical to me.
I still use my original 28pt builds on Khyber and they are great characters. I will cite a slight damage boost on the 32pt build but the right gear could comp for that.

Stop cryin, play the game, put in some time and have fun. When you unlock those 32pt builds you will have a sense of achievement! Then you can use that 32pt build to get to 2500 favor like I did to unlock FvS.

[Mistinarperadnacles]

This applies to most of the "I want 32pt now! Or I'll quit*/cry*/have to play the game*/be a pariah* (* delete as applicable)

I consider Turbine's policy regarding 32 point builds to be "unfair", despite posts to the contrary - such as the above.

A 28 point build character is inherently disadvantaged relative to a 32 point character - whether or not the term "gimped" is used (the term is very appropriate, imo). Statements to the effect that a 28-point character is not "gimped" are either nonsense or arguments over terminology.

Why do you feel "gimped?" My 28 point characters have always kicked just as much butt as 32 point ones.

Asking a player to either "live with" a 28-point character or "earn" points or "favor" prior to creating a "real" character is absurd.

It is quite reasonable to reward long-term customers in some financial manner (e.g., giving them advantages that new customers must pay $ for).

I have no interest in spending time on a "throw away" character, so that I can create my "real" one.

You don't "live" with them. You enjoy playing them as much as the any other character. They get the same build options, the same loot, the same quests. There's nothing "throwaway" about them.

Suppose I have only an hour or two to play per week.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but if you do play 1 hour a week, in all honesty, Turbine doesn't care whether the game is tailored to make your specific situation better. Yes, it would be nice for you, but players on this amount of short time are going to have so many issues compared to 20 hour a week players that the whole game would have to be very different.

It is as if Turbine went out of their way to implement a policy turning that hour or two into work, rather than fun.

I could spend weeks or months "earning" the "right" to create my "real" character (any enjoyment of the task greatly minimized by my knowledge that I am playing a "throw away" character).

Once I finally created my "real" character, my enjoyment of playing him would be diminished by my foreknowledge of dungeon content (acquired during "fore play", prior to creation of the real character).

The joy and fun of encountering the unknown with a character I am "into" (who in a sense, "is me") is eliminated.

Even were I able to play only an hour or two per week, such time could be very enjoyable were I to have a sense of progress and adventure. It's fun acquiring a new spell or ability, but much less doing so with a character having an NPC "feel" - worse, an NPC that will disappear from play.

So why not play your character and have this fun? Oh wait... you didn't even try:

The policy is so unfair and ill-considered that I have lost interest in DnD online -without even finishing the character creation process (and despite my yearning for a good MMORPG).

It is supported by people who A) have lots of time on their hands and/or have already "earned" the ability to create 32-point builds and B) have no interest in fairness - only in what benefits them (please - refrain from babbling about having "earned" the right to create non-gimped characters).

Partly true, addressed later on, incorrect motivation.

I consider myself ripped-off**. I would not have thought that such an absurd policy would even be considered by any company - or tolerated by customers (other than young kids).

I intend to steer clear of anything with the Turbine label.

** I spent $24 on optional features prior to creating my first character - then learned of this ridiculous policy minutes later.

Um... I wouldn't waste any money on getting so worked up about what is so wrongly perceived by so many to be such a big deal. If you've spent money on it, aren't you at least going to try?




Right then... what's this all about?

Well, seems to me that a whole host of new players (and server switching veterans) have got in a bunch over the reward you get for acheiving 1750 favour, namely 4 extra build points at character creation.

Why is this? It's because people are erroneously believing that without them, their characters are so vastly inferior as to be only fit for the scrap pile. This is very, very wrong, and here's why:

(This requires some understanding of D&D character building, which I realise new players used to other games might not have.)

4 points at character creation IS NOT 4 stat points. Costs to increase stats increase as the stat gets higher. To take a stat from your base 8 up to 14 costs 1 creation point per stat point. From 14-16 costs 2 and 17-18 costs 3.

This means that the 4 points you get aren't as valuable as you might have thought. They are useful, no doubt about it, but don't provide any earth shattering magic uberness on their own.

Advanced builds found on the forums such as deep multiclasses metagamed to the minutest tolerance are often very stat intensive and require every smidge of a +1 they can get. These builds also require in depth knowledge of DDO and should not be the goal of new players anyway. They also often require multiple +2/+3 and even +4 tomes.

So let's look at some specific examples of belief vs. reality:

My character Fighter McFightypants doesn't have as much damage*/hit points*/AC*

Ok. With a 28 point build, you'll have enough to reach 18 STR 14 DEX 14 CON. This means you'll have exactly the same to hit and damage potential as any other fighter. The reason you see veteran characters ripping through stuff isn't that they have more points, its that they have knowledge and 3 years worth of uber equipment. If you're not hitting on 2+ its because you built it wrong in the first place and no amount of extra creation points will help. You CANNOT exceed the MAX stat with any amount of extra creation points, so you can't be "better."

Hitpoints wise, yes I'll concede you would have less. A whole 1 hit point per level less. 20 hit points at level 20 does not make any realistic difference. It just plain doesn't. Besides there are other build and gear options that will address this: Draconic vitality from maxing out Argonnessen favour, or Toughness feats, or toughness enhancements, or Minos Legens, or Greensteel. You're really never going to experience being "gimpily squishy."

Yes, this one time, at devil camp, I nearly wiped and was left on 1 hit point and heroically soloed the raid and won the internet and girls wanted me.

He'll still have the max DEX bonus for plate armour (and even Armour Mastery with common +DEX items,) and your AC won't match veteran levels ever anyway. Godly AC is 80+ and it is not possible for fighters in armour to hit this. Sorry. Useful AC is 65+ and this is just as achievable with a 14 DEX as it is with a 16 and that elusive +1.

But wait! That's only 3 stats! This is true. In absolute honesty, those spent 4 points taking a dump stat from 8 to 12 won't get you considered uber by 3 year veterans. What could you get? CHA could get an extra 2 points in skills like Haggle for a whopping 0.5% increase in the prices you can sell stuff for. Or 2 ranks of UMD (I heard UMD is teh uber) which won't matter as you can't ever buy enough ranks of it to matter for things like Heal scrolls. UMD20 items like bypassing race requirements is available to you anyway. +2 Intimidate doesn't help either. If you're using Intim, you're maxing it out as a class skill and finding a +15 item and taking enhancements and having Greater Heroism, which short version, means you'll hit a high enough total anyway.

An extra shot of Intelligence means extra skill points each level. Now this is considered by many a biggie. Just check the price of unbound +2 INT tomes. Does it make you "gimped?" Nope. No. Not.

Pretty much all classes follow the same pattern. Your primary stat(s) won't be affected as you can't exceed MAX and your supplementary stats really aren't inferior.

Where this becomes an issue is where people believe they can build a 100 AC monk/rogue with 40 STR and 27 attacks per round like those uber templates in the build threads. Well, here's the newsflash for new people: Those builds REQUIRE very specific Raid Loot and a swathe of +3 Tomes, but you have those in the bank already, don't you?

So there you have it. 28pt builds are not throwaway. Ever.

I understand people want it. I can even see it being added to the store (it hasn't because it would require the respec/upgrade mechanic which they can't get to work yet.) I understand some long time VIPs don't want the rewards they've worked for being handed freely to anyone with enough credit, but to not play or quit over a false belief that you won't have a viable character, especially if you are a casual player, is the very essence of stupid.

I personally think that some things should be the preserve of the long time supporters that have plowed 15 bucks a month into this for years and not everyone should get everything from their credit card. But I'm not an elitist and I for one welcome our new free players and hope that now they can see that while reaching 1750 favour is nice, its far from essential.

Play, enjoy, rejoice.

[Letrii]

It doesn't matter if it is gimped or not. The issue is one of perceptions and no amount of trying to explain how 28 is just as good as 32 will matter. There is no reason to argue against it either. It boils down to I had to do it so you should too or epeen.

[marshm1972]

People that say that 28 points dont gimp a character, for some classes thats true. But for MAD classes like the Paladin the extra 4 points can make a huge difference. Any 28 pt character will be weaker than a 32 pt, thats a FACT.

I also came from Europe DDO, it took me 4 months of regular play to get the 1750 favor, I am not looking forward to doing it again. The easiest way to get was to zerg quests and I hate zerging. If I had the option, yes I would buy the 32pt unlock. I did it once, I didnt enjoy it, I dont want to wait 4 months (more because I have less free time than before) just to build the character I want to.

And whats the big deal? If you want to continue grinding for favor nobody is stopping you, and as someone pointed out you still get the +2 tome so its not like you are ruining anything. DDO is a product of a business, its goal is to make money. If customers get bored they unsubscribe. Grinding for quests to get favor just so players can play the way they want to is a surefire way to LOSE players. And lets face it, DDO didnt go F2P because they had a 10 Million subscribers to draw income from. So driving away players from a free game is a poor way to make money.

[Gum]

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but if you do play 1 hour a week, in all honesty, Turbine doesn't care whether the game is tailored to make your specific situation better. Yes, it would be nice for you, but players on this amount of short time are going to have so many issues compared to 20 hour a week players that the whole game would have to be very different.

IMO, you shouldn't speak for Turbine here. Of course they care about their players input, even if that player only plays one hour a week. It's still a customer, and it's a viewpoint that makes up part of the whole.

[Quanefel]

I consider Turbine's policy regarding 32 point builds to be "unfair", despite posts to the contrary - such as the above.

A 28 point build character is inherently disadvantaged relative to a 32 point character - whether or not the term "gimped" is used (the term is very appropriate, imo). Statements to the effect that a 28-point character is not "gimped" are either nonsense or arguments over terminology.

Asking a player to either "live with" a 28-point character or "earn" points or "favor" prior to creating a "real" character is absurd.

It is quite reasonable to reward long-term customers in some financial manner (e.g., giving them advantages that new customers must pay $ for).

However, the current policy is extremely ill conceived.

I have no interest in spending time on a "throw away" character, so that I can create my "real" one.

Suppose I have only an hour or two to play per week.

It is as if Turbine went out of their way to implement a policy turning that hour or two into work, rather than fun.

I could spend weeks or months "earning" the "right" to create my "real" character (any enjoyment of the task greatly minimized by my knowledge that I am playing a "throw away" character).

Once I finally created my "real" character, my enjoyment of playing him would be diminished by my foreknowledge of dungeon content (acquired during "fore play", prior to creation of the real character).

The joy and fun of encountering the unknown with a character I am "into" (who in a sense, "is me") is eliminated.

Even were I able to play only an hour or two per week, such time could be very enjoyable were I to have a sense of progress and adventure. It's fun acquiring a new spell or ability, but much less doing so with a character having an NPC "feel" - worse, an NPC that will disappear from play.

The issue is exacerbated for me by the fact that I really like to take time to "smell the roses". I am not into power-gaming. I am certainly not into running through a dungeon as quickly as possible to gain XP. I also enjoy soloing and duoing. This play style would further increase the time needed before "real" play could begin. And how much fun would it be to "smell the roses" with a disposable character? Or to power-play the disposable character, further intensifying the "task like" feel of earning "favor" - due to utilizing a play-style that I dislike.

The policy is so unfair and ill-considered that I have lost interest in DnD online -without even finishing the character creation process (and despite my yearning for a good MMORPG). I was unable to enjoy creating a character, knowing that he would be gimped and "throw away". Never before had I experienced lack of enthusiasm during character creation.

The policy is supported by people who A) have lots of time on their hands and/or have already "earned" the ability to create 32-point builds and B) have no interest in fairness - only in what benefits them (please - refrain from babbling about having "earned" the right to create non-gimped characters).

I consider myself ripped-off**. I would not have thought that such an absurd policy would even be considered by any company - or tolerated by customers (other than young kids).

I intend to steer clear of anything with the Turbine label.


** I spent $24 on optional features prior to creating my first character - then learned of this ridiculous policy minutes later.

You seem to contradict yourself on this issue. How can you suggest you are here to "smell the roses" and that you are not here for power-gaming yet advocate a desire to bypass the process of aquiring 32 point build to suit your personal needs? Needs that are counter to just "smelling the roses".

If your desire is really to smell the roses then reaching that prize of 32 point builds from the reward based system would smell sweet to you once gained. Yet, you wish for the chance to buy it outright, correct?

You also seem confused here on this "ridiculous policy" as you described. It is not a policy, it is a reward based favor system. They layed out a path to reach a goal, at the end of reaching that goal a player is rewarded for his efforts. How is being rewarded for reaching a goal unfair? Or are you really suggesting it is unfair to you because you want the reward but not be bothered with the path to reach that goal? It is also not babbling in regards to those who, yes, earned the "privilege" of making 32 point builds. A "right"? No, it is not a right.

If you personally feel ripped off, you really have only yourself to blame. No one forced you to spend any money on anything. You set your expectations much to high and on unrealistic terms in my opinion.

[Mistinarperadnacles]

IMO, you shouldn't speak for Turbine here. Of course they care about their players input, even if that player only plays one hour a week. It's still a customer, and it's a viewpoint that makes up part of the whole.

I meant that to indicate that while indeed Turbine should care about all their players and the feedback they get, those that play 1 hour a week are a very small group and Turbine cannot possibly cater to every minority desire. The player would also have much bigger issues to worry about, such as quests that take longer than their whole weekly game time and the huge disparity in their fellow gamers levelling speed and loot aquisition. They can't care about pleasing every individual player on a tailored basis as this would not be possible. Perhaps "can't be concerned with" would be better wording than "don't care about."

Not, as you took it to mean, that they don't care about input.

[Crystalizer]

drow is easy to unlock and is almost a 32pts build, depends on the build you choose but well about points drows are quite good. if you consider that accessing 32pts builds is one of the long term rewards you can have in game, its probably better to not be able to buy it at the shop. and dont forget that buying 32pts builds would open 32pts builds on all servers, which represents a huge amount of playtime.

[Avonwey]

Why do you feel "gimped?" My 28 point characters have always kicked just as much butt as 32 point ones.

The reality is that your 28 point characters would kick MORE butt if they were 32 point ones. 32 > 28

[RazorrX]

From my view:

The more money DDO makes Turbine the more they will invest back into DDO. Classes, Races, content. More for us to do.

I have seen new players leave because of the misconception that 32pts are so much better than 28. That is not a good thing. We need more players. We need more money generated so that I can have more races, classes and content. I want my Shifters, Half Orcs, Half Elves, (not gnomes though, they are creepy. If I were a gnome I would tell everyone I was a halfling).

So sure, put 32pt builds for sale. 1750 favor also gets you a +2 tome, so you still get that.

IMO they should put +1 tome as 400 favor reward, +2 for 1750 and +3 for 2500 or they could offer some sweet end reward system for it with tomes as one option, maybe small, medium and large crafting components, etc. That makes favor WELL worth farming, and still allows new players to get 32pts for a nice fee.

[Mistinarperadnacles]

The reality is that your 28 point characters would kick MORE butt if they were 32 point ones. 32 > 28

Meh.

So they're +1 worse off. Big wow. Well, I guess not seeing as I could make them a +1 exceptional item my 32 point ones don't have, or go get an Abbot Trinket for that +1 or a host of other ways that their performance is so close as to not matter.

But yeah... if there was supposed to be a: in there, yes.

This debate has cropped up ever since the favour reward appeared and people still believe that the 4 points makes such a HUGE difference as to render all others obsolete. I'm just explaining that isn't so.

[Banner]

I laugh a little when I read things like this. 28pt builds aren't gimped and Drow (easily unlockable) are essentially a 32pt race.
.

And I thought it was a jackass heehawing.

Are 28 point builds disadvantaged relative to 32 point builds? If so, I'd call that gimped (perhaps you prefer to think of 32 point builds as superior, rather than 28 point builds as inferior, but that's simply semantics).

If 32 point Drow builds are disallowed, then you have a point regarding Drow. If 32 point Drow builds are permitted, you seem to have no point - whatever race is selected, a 32 point build still trumps a 28 point build.

Regarding tomes - I am going to make some assumptions. First, that a +2 tome allows one to permanently increase an attribute by 2 (apparently of the player's choice in the case of the "free" tome). Second, that a 4 point build differential does not necessarily translate to 4 points of total attribute difference (I am guessing that increasing an attribute is more expensive the higher it is).

Questions:

1) Is being given the "free" +2 tome you mentioned simply a matter of convenience? In other words, could one achieve the same result by finding such a tome via game play? [So that, ultimately, being given the "free" tome does not result in superior attributes to what is obtainable via play.] I don't know anything about tome limitations, availability, etc - so I can't judge the value of the "free" +2 tome. [I have no problem STARTING OUT weaker due to not having "earned" something. I have a problem with ultimate potential being lower.]

2) I reactivated an old account that I originally opened when DDO first became available (and which I played for several months). As far as I know, I have no "favor" points (are those points on per server or a per account basis? how does one check for them?). Does this mean that I would be unable to collect a "free" +2 tome (since I am not considered "new")? I had thought that there was an advantage to having a "premium" account, and therefore reactivated an old account (and spent money on it), rather than using a new account. I would FAR rather have received a +2 tome than to be given extra "free" slots. Sure, I could create another account, but I just spent money on the old one (although I suppose I could simply "eat" the $24 bucks, not a big deal).

Ultimately, the bottom line question is whether a 28 point build character will have essentially the same ultimate potential as a 32 point build character. If this is the case, then my earlier comments were way off the mark and I will play.

[enochiancub]

As long as their money gets the devs to give us more content, races, classes and everything else we've been promised/asked for the past few years, I say let them have their instant gratification. Less whining, more money for turbine to create our game.

If they are so intent on arguing that their 28pter is worthless and it's causing them so much real life agony it's not worth arguing with them over. Especially if their false belief makes them leave the game. This is not worth losing potential cash cows over. It's actually a blessing in disguise. To me this shows that people are willing to toss money at imagined burdens. Good, more money for turbine, more game for us.