Still no 32 point build in the shop?

[Ephemeral]

because Most Of The People Who Don't Want 32 Point Sold Have Not Unlocked Fvs And Are Glad Its For Sale Lol
You Can Sell What They Want Sold, Just Not What They Don't Want Sold

Qft

[SableShadow]

Honestly once they get Respecs working they should just remove 28 point build options from the game and give all 28 point characters a 32 point rebuild.

Oh, I don't know...if it was a linear reward (1750 and upgrade), I think the objections would vanish. People don't mind grinding out a thing, as long as they feel the reward matched the effort.

It's simply that the 'toon' people don't understand the 'character' people...since 'toons' are deleted and rerolled at the drop of a bra, they seem to think the 'character' people want something for free, when really the 'character' people just want to keep their 'characters' and be able to reach, at least theoretically, the same maximums.

I'm more than a little surprised that no one seems annoyed about selling FvS...

[Mercules]

To put it as simply as I can: to ME grinding is not fun.

Never said you had to grind, in fact I pointed out that I believed that as long as several OTHER favor rewards are being sold, this should be available as well.

Honestly once they get Respecs working they should just remove 28 point build options from the game and give all 28 point characters a 32 point rebuild.

Agreed as it would solve a LOT of issues.

The only reason I'm not having as much fun with this game is because of 28/32-points. Stuck with a drow with a class I hate. Thank you Turbine!

And hug you all people saying no. If you're saying 4 more points aren't that important, then why do you defend it almost religiously?

Seriously???. Unlocked Drow on Cannith, but I won't make one because my 28 point Human Monk will function just fine. I wouldn't mind being able to buy 32 point builds especially if it unlocked them on all servers, but I don't need a 32 point build to do things in this game. As I stated, it is a few more HPs, +1 DC, +1 AC, or +1 To Hit and such. Wooooo.

[miceelf88]

People are leaving the game over 28/32??? Really? I just find that so foreign, it's hard to relate. I didn't worry about such things at all before I unlocked, and still don't really. (and because my own vice is trying to get through every adventure available to me, not just the leveling core adventures, I got to 1750 in the natural course of things around level 12-13). In practical terms, it's one or two points of a relevant stat (bumping from 15 to 16 takes more than one point, etc).

I really hope that people aren't actually leaving the game over this. If that's the kind of thing that keeps one up at night fretting, it's going to be a long and sad existence on DDO.

[d1mitri]

Never said you had to grind, in fact I pointed out that I believed that as long as several OTHER favor rewards are being sold, this should be available as well.

Agreed as it would solve a LOT of issues.

Seriously???. Unlocked Drow on Cannith, but I won't make one because my 28 point Human Monk will function just fine. I wouldn't mind being able to buy 32 point builds especially if it unlocked them on all servers, but I don't need a 32 point build to do things in this game. As I stated, it is a few more HPs, +1 DC, +1 AC, or +1 To Hit and such. Wooooo.

Then remove 32-points altogether if doesn't make such a difference. All characters should have equal potential... Besides, you forget - it doesn't matter much when you're level 20... but it gives a pretty big advantage in low levels. It could very well mean the difference between completing a dungeon and wiping.

I really hope that people aren't actually leaving the game over this. If that's the kind of thing that keeps one up at night fretting, it's going to be a long and sad existence on DDO.

If I was seriously considering leaving (and still am), I can bet plenty of people do. Just pointing it out.

[Samiusbot]

Irrelevant.

Make 32 pt builds available now, and treat respec of exisiting 28 pt builds as a separate problem.

The availability of 32pt builds in shop is causing new players to discontinue with the game. This is a major issue and can be easily fixed.

The non-availability of a respec from 28 to 32pt builds is annoying, but the existing playerbase has learned to live with it. For those with little or no raid loot on their 28 pt builds, they can easily reroll. For those with lots of raid loot, its a question of which they want more, 4pts on their build or the raid loot they have acquired to date. Its not a major issue.

And before I get ad-hominem'd for that statement, my toon on cannith already has acquired some really nice bound to character gear, including icy raiments, which I would have no guarantee of obtaining again quickly if i was to reroll to 32pts. So i am in the same boat, and I have no issue with 32pt builds being buyable.

28 to 32 point up grade would be how I would handle it, and i would bet Turbine too.

1, Why would a VIP player ever use this unless they are new to the game and just want the 32 point builds a older VIP that has unlocked 32 points would almost never need a server unlock, unless they want to start to play on a new server. But I easily see VIPs using a 28 point upgrade service to make there just as great PC's even better! And they can just as easily upgrade the PC at first level.
2, Why would you have a one time fee when you could have a many time fee? If it cost around 300 TP points to go 28 to 32 then I can see upgrading older PC's at a steady pace. Pc's I might have as bank guys for 32 point builds. Even though they are tomed and geared out.
3, Why do 2x the work if the same amount of work can solve both problems why do more work and have two different solutions?

So from a micro transactions thought I see this as the way we will be going for something so powerful.

[-Satureon-]

C'mon, there are lot of players interested in paying to get 32 point build from the store instead of reaching 1750 favor (just like drow and favored soul) and still there isn't this option ?
Turbine, are you sure you want our money? Seems you don't like them (I am a former european player, already a VIP on DDO:Eberron Unlimited but I have no time to farm 1750 and then do again the character, I'm ready to pay to buy 32 pnt build).

I did that in 2-3 weeks (1750), and played only at evenings.
Buying 32pt builds could be a bit rude imo...
If you havent got time to play the game, what do you want then?

When they implemented to buy drow and fvs and warforged, they just did a really big mistake...

[miceelf88]

Again, I have to say this is a very foreign conversation to me. Do lowbies really sit around after a wipe in STK or whatever and try to figure out which player had the 28 point build that "caused" the party wipe?

Every wipe I've ever been in, at any level, has been due to one of three things:

1. bad play/decision making. Missing jumps in the pit. poor aggro management. zerging when one isn't prepared/skilled enough to do it well. etc. 32 point builds won't solve that problem.

2. Fundamentally flawed builds that don't do what they're intending to do. DPS that either can't hit or don't do damage. Tanks that don't have the requisite AC or can't hold aggro. Casters with REALLY low dc's. a poorly thought out multiclass. Etc. Honestly, a single point to DC or AC isn't going to solve that problem either. 32 point builds increase by 5% the odds of either a spell going off, a hit being avoided or landed, etc. But not all of these things. If your 28 build is really gimped, adding a point of STR isn't going to fix it.

3. Basic equipment lacking. Not being prepped to bypass DR. Again, 32 point won't affect this.

I honestly don't have strong feelings about whether to buy 32 point or not. But this notion that it's a signficant barrier to gameplay makes me think that selling it would be a bad idea. If everyone had 32 point builds, what would they blame their failures on then?

[Ephemeral]

28 to 32 point up grade would be how I would handle it, and i would bet Turbine too.

1, Why would a VIP player ever use this unless they are new to the game and just want the 32 point builds a older VIP that has unlocked 32 points would almost never need a server unlock, unless they want to start to play on a new server. But I easily see VIPs using a 28 point upgrade service to make there just as great PC's even better! And they can just as easily upgrade the PC at first level.
2, Why would you have a one time fee when you could have a many time fee? If it cost around 300 TP points to go 28 to 32 then I can see upgrading older PC's at a steady pace. Pc's I might have as bank guys for 32 point builds. Even though they are tomed and geared out.
3, Why do 2x the work if the same amount of work can solve both problems why do more work and have two different solutions?

So from a micro transactions thought I see this as the way we will be going for something so powerful.

This may be the 'best' way to handle buyable 32pt builds, however its not the easiest to implement.

As I stated in my post, really we are looking at two different but related issues:

- allowing people without 1750 favor to buy 32pt builds (easy to implement, as the code already exists for this through the unlock via Nyx mechanism)

- allowing a respec of 28pt builds to 32pt builds (presumably difficult to implement, with many prerequisites such as minimum levels on tomes needing to be in place first)

If newcomers are leaving right now because of the first issue, then fix that right now and make 32pt builds buyable through the store.

For the second issue, continue to work on it and provide it to veterans when the functionality is ready.

[Ephemeral]

People are leaving the game over 28/32??? Really? I just find that so foreign, it's hard to relate. I didn't worry about such things at all before I unlocked, and still don't really. (and because my own vice is trying to get through every adventure available to me, not just the leveling core adventures, I got to 1750 in the natural course of things around level 12-13). In practical terms, it's one or two points of a relevant stat (bumping from 15 to 16 takes more than one point, etc).

I really hope that people aren't actually leaving the game over this. If that's the kind of thing that keeps one up at night fretting, it's going to be a long and sad existence on DDO.

People are leaving because of this, and many people who don't leave find it discouraging. Your opinion may be different, however that does not negate the feedback that many people are posting on threads like this one.

And to address a misconception in your thinking - 28pts are sufficient for the majority of character concepts, particularly where there is a focus on one set of activities (e.g. pure barbs, sorcs, clerics). However, there are some classes (monk, paladin) and character concepts (mixtures of melee / casting or melee / skills) that are much better with the extra 4 build points.

[Mercules]

... but it gives a pretty big advantage in low levels. It could very well mean the difference between completing a dungeon and wiping.

~Very~ unlikely since the low levels are rather forgiving, much more so than the higher levels.

However, there are some classes (monk, paladin) and character concepts (mixtures of melee / casting or melee / skills) that are much better with the extra 4 build points.

That "much" is subjective. Would my Monk on Cannith be better with 4 more stat points, yes, but how much is the question. If I stuck it into the most useful for leveling areas then I gain 6 HPs, 8 Fort save instead of 7, and +1 to Damage. If I put it into, concerned about end game, it would likely go into Dex and have little to no impact until I got a +1 Tome and then again with a +3 tome.

[DSC]

There's no way they'll make 32-pt builds more accessible until they have respec working. Once they do, you'll probably see 32-pt builds given to everyone, with maybe a higher build as a favor reward or store item.

[NinetyNineTails]

You people do realize you are talking about 4 build points, which translates to 1 main stat point, and one dump stat. And you honestly think that makes your toon gimp?

That really depends on what you mean when you use the word 'gimp'.

Personally, I don't like arguing over 'gimp'. It doesn't have a sufficiently well established definition.

If 'gimp' means 'your character sucks and is ineffective', then, no, 28 point builds aren't necessarily gimped. Plenty of 28 point builds do the toughest content in the game every day.

If 'gimp' means 'permanently and unavoidably less effective than the alternative', then, yes, 28 point builds are absolutely gimped compared to 32 point builds. There is no 28 point build that is not made materially better by another 4 stat points at creation, and the 28 point build can never made up that head start in any way.

[amyndris]

For me, I'd love to buy it. I'm working my way grinding to 1750 faction, but I'm not really "enjoying" the game (currently at about 700).

The problem is, I know my current Dwarf Fighter 7/ Paladin 2 is a giant waste of space. As soon as I unlock 1750, the 100 hours I put into it is completely wasted and I'm going to reroll another Dwarf Fighter 18/Paladin 2, do the same quests again, get the same feats again, get the same skills again, etc.

Nothing about my gameplay is going to change, but I'm going to have to spend another 60 hours to "farm" that favor.

That's what's disappointing. Knowing that I'm investing so much time into a worthless character that once I hit 1750, I'm never ever going to touch again, except maybe as extra bankslots. And I can get that with a level 1 character

Look, I like DDO, it's a lot of fun. I just don't think it's fun enough that I want to do Korthos Island again with the same everything.

[skotm]

Ill ask this again.
As a new player how can you gring out the favor quickley like a few others say?

I personally get attached to a character and dont want to have to reroll and do the same quests over again..

It is very discoraging.

[KoboldKiller]

I'm going to add one more thing to this thread and I'm done. I see several people talking about having to re-roll and do it all over again. Your going to have to do it all over again anyway seeing as there isn't enough to do to keep your ONE alt occupied all the time. This is a moot point. Not only that but nobody says you HAVE to re-roll your original 28 pt as has been pointed out several times 28pt builds are being used at end game all the time. Many of us have several builds because at some point rolling new alts is all there is left to do. Anyway this is my final word on this whole subject.

Have a great day.

[shores11]

Because I'm not interested in reaching 1750 with a "gimped" char and even if I played for 2+ years on european server, I still don't like zerging too much. Se let me buy my 32 point toon like I can buy drow or FvS.

Every single time a player says this (see highlighted words above) I am so very confused. I have been playing 3 1/2 years and reach 1750 favor on everyone of my 6 characters. Of my 6 characters 3 are 28 point builds (a wizard, a ranger & a rogue) and 3 are 32 point builds (a cleric, a paladin, a bard). I truely enjoy all of my characters and play them all but I find I play my wizard and rogue the most.

To summarize the point of the paragraph above my 28 point characters are in no way gimped (period). I can compete on them with any player in any quest on any difficulty and most of the time lead them in kills, survivability and play. To say a 28 point character is gimped may be your opinion but the fact is that your wrong. It may be in fact that the player is gimped and a 32 point build will not fix that.

I never zerg so it can be done without zerging.

[DSC]

Yes, but the issue for some people is that a 28-point character is (currently) always worse than it could be. Forever.

You can argue that it's not materially worse, and most of the time you'd be right, but nevertheless that fact really grates on people. This is one of the only games I've ever encountered where your original character - the character on whom you actually earn the favor! - is permanently "worse" than every character that follows it, and there is no way to ever make up that deficit.

[r3dl4nce]

I come from euro server, as I said, and there I have 1750 favor unlocked. I know that a a 28 point is usable but I am a minmaxer too. So I want the best I can for my characters. Creating a new character that I'll have to reroll (because I want the best) is stupid. And why a wizard can simply buy drow and GG? And why a Favored Soul can simply buy the class and never reach 2500 favor? What's the problem in putting in the shop the 32 point build? Who want the 32 point build, now or later, will reach 1750 favor. So what's the problem in having the 32 point now instead of later? It's not that after having the 32 point I have the char done. I have still to play it, take it to cap, get raid items, and so on. 32 point is the common start now. Wizard, Sorcerer, Bards, they all have an advantage. Favores Soul too. Where is the love for all the others classes/races ?

[Ephemeral]

Ill ask this again.
As a new player how can you gring out the favor quickley like a few others say?

I personally get attached to a character and dont want to have to reroll and do the same quests over again..

It is very discoraging.

The easiest way (and how I did it when i got my 1750 on khyber) imo is to make a wf wizard to start with. Go with stats similar to str 12, dex 8, con 16, int 18, wis 8, cha 6. On Korthos, use the ember greataxe and hack and slash your way through all quests to elite (preferably find a group if you can, it tends to be quicker with an organised group). Go across to Stormreach and concentrate on powerlevelling. Don't worry overly much about getting favor at this point, but do enough to get useful things like the extra inventory slots from the coin lords.

Try to keep up to date with spells and items as you powerlevel, focusing particularly on getting hold of potency and power items. Its useful to find a good group of players to run with if you can, this will dramatically speed up the levelling process. Its good to also look for a decent guild in your middle levels.

By the time you hit your early teens, your wf wizard will start to become a powerhouse. Firewall is the first milestone on this road, and the journey is more or less complete when you get reconstruct at level 11. At this point, you will probably not have a huge amount of favor (I would estimate realistically you will have maybe around 600) because you will have been repeating high xp quests such as deleras, stormcleave, gwylans, tear, xorian cypher and so on.

Now comes the favor grind. With firewall, reconstruct, stoneskin, dimension door and other assorted spells, you'll be able to blow through the early favor that you missed on your way up. Best is to be a vip so you can start straight on hard. Always look out for favor groups, as these tend to have elite openers for many of the quests they run.

At the same time, mix in a bit of levelling and loot running to keep you sane. Additionally, you will need to be in groups to handle the higher level quests, particularly in places like GH.

By the time you hit about 14-15th level, you will either have achieved 1750 or be close to it, depending on your capacity to endure the boredom of running low level stuff.

Total time to get there for an experienced player would be in the region of 2-3 weeks, playing several hours per day (say 6 hours per day).


The really nice thing is that your wf wiz will be perfectly usable as an end-game build with the stat distribution given.