RE: Patch 1 combat improvements

[Seneca_Windforge]

I do believe that I hate this change more than just about any other in the 3.5 years I've been playing DDO.

My Rog1/Brb4 TWF-er feels like she's fighting in molasses. It's almost unbearably slow. The funny thing is, the little thread description right above the window where I am typing this says "Discuss the heart pounding action of DDO's combat system here!"...yeah, whatever.

This change makes low level combat suck. And the worst part is, it's almost certainly here to stay. Combined with the raising of AC's (a change I was willing to accept on it's own), my enthusiasm for the new module has been significantly reduced.

[Borror0]

My Rog1/Brb4 TWF-er feels like she's fighting in molasses.

Hasted?

[Seneca_Windforge]

Hasted?

No.

[Borror0]

No.

It's atrocious when non-hasted but regular high level combat is hasted. It's normal to find it slow if you're not hasted.

Get a haste potion and you'll see it's not that slow.

[Yargore]

When you guys and gals are complaining about the 'twitch' play being nerfed are you just referring to THF or is this across the board somehow. I understand that a THF would have to break the attack chain to get a better attack speed and that is no longer the case ... fix? nerf? in the eye of the beholder I guess.

But how has 'twitch' play changed for others? I play mainly a TWF rogue and I'm all over the place when in combat ... jumping, tumbling, side stepping, fleeing for my life. The only time I just stand there swinging is when there is a portal in front of me.

Other than the over all changes for attack speeds and such is my style of play going to cause me to be nerfed in some new way as opposed to standing still? ... which for me is a good way to die.

I'm confused aswell.
How did THF twitch nerf suddenly make the combat boring and wowish as some people claim?

[Seneca_Windforge]

It's atrocious when non-hasted but regular high level combat is hasted. It's normal to find it slow if you're not hasted.

Get a haste potion and you'll see it's not that slow.

I've been playing low level characters for the past several days, unhasted, and it's still incredibly slow. I'm not comparing it to high level combat (which was fine, IMO).

Are you going to hand out haste potions to all the people under level 5? Not only is their BAB really low but they don't generally have access to anything that increases attack speed besides haste boosts, which are only available to some classes and are very limited regardless.

I'm hesitant to ask any of my friends to try DDO. Sure, the combat system is heart pounding...once you get above level 10. Before that, it would seem that everyone has a permanent Slow effect on them.

[Emili]

That's how I read it.

If that's correct, Shade is gonna be peeved!

My guess is he may... I'm a twitcher myself and now I think to myself what's this point? No longer does motor skill become involved in output... :sigh: my barb may just pike from now on.

[gfunk]

I've killed the portal in Aussircaex's Valley 3 times now (with my lvl 18 dex ranger), twice with auto attack and once while moving. Auto attack times are 61 and 62 seconds. I didn't precisely time the attempt while moving, I stopped looking after it hit 70 seconds. It was likely around 74 or 75.

Its too bad I didn't time it before, but I believe that it used to be quicker to kill it by breaking ones attack chain.

I'm actually somewhat happy about the change, as before I thought there was little benefit in the extra attack for tempest III if it can near the end. (as it would have been just as much dps to just break your attack chain after the first or second attack). I guess I am a bit saddened that the system has been simplified, but it probably makes more sense this way... we will see.

Still, even though the 5th animation looked kinda wierd it did seem to spice things up a bit. I will miss it. Maybe we could get a backflip instead someday.

[Souless]

Am I reading it wrong or did they buff non twitching THF and nerf twitching THF both at the same time with the same fix?

Thats the way I read it...except I read alittle more into it...with all main hand attacks = that significatly boots THF i think above TWF...since THF hit harder....Based on the numbers that I've heard from barbs critting for 500+ damage while THF....I gotta ask why this fix was necessary?

The Bytcher~

Souless/Xbow/Valice/Tazzor/Spectyr/Vampir/Xindao/Richgirl

[Yargore]

Thats the way I read it...except I read alittle more into it...with all main hand attacks = that significatly boots THF i think above TWF...since THF hit harder....Based on the numbers that I've heard from barbs critting for 500+ damage while THF....I gotta ask why this fix was necessary?

The Bytcher~

Souless/Xbow/Valice/Tazzor/Spectyr/Vampir/Xindao/Richgirl

TWF is even further ahead of THF now.

[krud]

kind of but really this just hurts the twitch attackers and slightly boosts all fighting styles to compensate.

but you were twitching because of a poorly implemented 5th animation. If it was implemented properly you wouldn't be twitching.

[Roman]

TWF is even further ahead of THF now.

How? It looks like TwF lost an attack, and has more offhand attacks which deal less damage.

[Yargore]

How? It looks like TwF lost an attack, and has more offhand attacks which deal less damage.

Same amount of mainhand attacks (as bab 16 prepatch), and more offhand attacks.

[Emili]

It's atrocious when non-hasted but regular high level combat is hasted. It's normal to find it slow if you're not hasted.

Get a haste potion and you'll see it's not that slow.

Lmao, You are sugesting the advertised fast paced action combat ... comes with a price besides paying for your account.

[kingfisher]

but you were twitching because of a poorly implemented 5th animation. If it was implemented properly you wouldn't be twitching.

honestly i was moving because standing still and fighting is boring as ****. the added twitch benefit was just gravy. this is not a game breaking change, dont get me wrong. its just sad that they keep dumbing down the game.

and really the worst part about this change, as gfunk and i were discussing, is that it TOTALLY goes against tempest builds taking Mobility and Spring attack, which are feats that make you better at attacking while moving. they become totally wasted instead of marginally useful, unless i am missing something.

now if they change takes those feats into account when calculating the new attacks and speed, they will still remain marginally usefull. but this would further force SWB and THF to stand still or suffer.

[FluffyCalico]

Same amount of mainhand attacks (as bab 16 prepatch), and more offhand attacks.

Except for tempest 3 which now has more main hand attacks :P

[Emili]

I'm confused aswell.
How did THF twitch nerf suddenly make the combat boring and wowish as some people claim?

Before ... player skill was more impotant, twitching is a motor skill, mor interactive. Now the result is more WOW like combat ... is better to stand there hold a button and watch the mob die instead of move around... I suppose next in line is to write a key macro which mimics intimidate and swing?

[Yargore]

Except for tempest 3 which now has more main hand attacks :P

Aye, slightly.
It was an extra main hand attack prepatch too though.

My "God" is happy

[Yargore]

Before ... player skill was more impotant, twitching is a motor skill, mor interactive. Now the result is more WOW like combat ... is better to stand there hold a button and watch the mob die instead of move around... I suppose next in line is to write a key macro which mimics intimidate and swing?

So TWF was wow combat?

[Turial]

Before ... player skill was more impotant, twitching is a motor skill, mor interactive. Now the result is more WOW like combat ... is better to stand there hold a button and watch the mob die instead of move around... I suppose next in line is to write a key macro which mimics intimidate and swing?

Likely why double clicking now places players in the auto attack mode.