RE: Patch 1 combat improvements

[kingfisher]

[QUOTE=Baahb3;2419731]So basically, TWF got 'normalized', THF got a boost, S&B got the shaft and any BA +3 character gets the same number of 'basic' swings as a BA +20 character...does that about cover it?

QUOTE]

kind of but really this just hurts the twitch attackers and slightly boosts all fighting styles to compensate.

yeah stand and deliver!!!! (but dont fall asleep while auto attacking!) booooooooooooooooooooooooo

[stazer]

QUOTE]


yeah stand and deliver!!!! (but dont fall asleep while auto attacking!) booooooooooooooooooooooooo[/QUOTE]

Auto attack FTW i sadly guess. Here's to LOTRO ddo style.

[Yargore]

Suddenly everyone are vivid THF users.

Twitching barely improved TWF before this patch, and I never found the combat dull.

[stazer]

Suddenly everyone are vivid THF users.

Twitching barely improved TWF before this patch, and I never found the combat dull.

yeah my tempest 3 ranger just doesnt seem that appealing now...maybe Ill get over it.

[dopey69]

Both done. I even played around with my TWF bard and my TWF spec'd fighter.

You seem uneducated about the history of the change, the motivations behind it and even how it works.

While I could explain you that it is me who came up with the idea, that if there is any change for TWF it is a positive one or that the intent was not to nerf TWF but rather to get it of twitching and improve the experience at low levels but, had you bothered reading the whole thread, you would know about those so you're clearly uninterested in learning about the topic and explaining to you would probably end up being a waste of time.

if it is you who has now made my lvl 10 barbarian swing like she has a wet noodle in her hand.....well i hate you and this change.....nuff said grrrr hate it hate it hate it !

[Aerendil]

I'm all for visuals, personally. I don't care if my character is throwing out 3 attacks an hour, if he's doing spin flips, twirling his quarterstaff around, and otherwise looking cool, I'm generally happy.

So, naturally, the reverse situation where I visually swing slower than an Ogre who's just been shot in the neck with a tranquilizer gun, is going to be a hard pill to swallow. I don't care if my combat log is scrolling at 50 mph, it's still going to be boring as sin to watch.

Could you imagine getting Slowed by a caster? Bloody hell...

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

I wonder how much of this is related to their attempt at fixing lag?

[stazer]

I'm all for visuals, personally. I don't care if my character is throwing out 3 attacks an hour, if he's doing spin flips, twirling his quarterstaff around, and otherwise looking cool, I'm generally happy.

So, naturally, the reverse situation where I visually swing slower than an Ogre who's just been shot in the neck with a tranquilizer gun, is going to be a hard pill to swallow. I don't care if my combat log is scrolling at 50 mph, it's still going to be boring as sin to watch.

Could you imagine getting Slowed by a caster? Bloody hell...

I think this is were I am at right now. I picture a lvl 20 ranger being a whirling blender of death...swinging...naturaly faster then any mortal possibly could...because in D and D Cannon lvl is equivalent to near god like. It should look a bit silly I guess as you will never really see a dwarf tempest III in real life cleaving devils and orthons too and fro.

[Mhykke]

....I guess as you will never really see a dwarf tempest III in real life cleaving devils and orthons too and fro.

As opposed to all those halflings and elves we'll see "in real life cleaving devils and orthons too and fro"?

[Borror0]

To those who complain about slow attack rate, can I ask a few questions about the characters in question?

I'd like to know:

• Character level
• Bonuses to attack rates (Haste, Tempest, Zeal, etc.)
• Fighting style (TWF, THF, unarmed, or S&B)

EDIT: I'm not referring to the actual attack rates but rather the complaints, like stazer's, that the combat feels too slow regardless of the actual numbers.

[kingfisher]

I wonder how much of this is related to their attempt at fixing lag?

hopefully most of it, because a lag reduction would be the only thing that makes this ok imo.

[spifflove]

To those who complain about slow attack rate, can I ask a few questions about the characters in question?

I'd like to know:

• Character level
• Bonuses to attack rates (Haste, Tempest, Zeal, etc.)
• Fighting style (TWF, THF, unarmed, or S&B)

THF barb twitch player high level. And no I am not the only one

[stockwizard5]

To those who complain about slow attack rate, can I ask a few questions about the characters in question?

I'd like to know:

• Character level
• Bonuses to attack rates (Haste, Tempest, Zeal, etc.)
• Fighting style (TWF, THF, unarmed, or S&B)

So this is crazy early without anywhere near enough data but here goes ...

Auto Attack (non-twitch) BAB 20 2HF = +5.3% DPS
Auto Attack BAB 20 Tempest III = +8.7% DPS

vs before the change ...

(and yes I know but there are far too many variables to post so call this generic)

ps: Miss less too

[Borror0]

THF barb twitch player high level. And no I am not the only one

Hasted or not?

[spifflove]

Hasted or not?

Its ok id that the vast majority of thf got a boost but I just got used to the twitch speed.

[Emili]

I think its all awesome, not a perfect solution by a longshot, but a lot more reasonable now.
I even enjoy the end of twitching for THF, and my main is a THF paladin.

didnt quite get the why they added more attacks to the early game though.

They were trying to mimic the class level attack progressions of DnD... I.E. a twf 10th level fighter (full BaB) gets more attacks per round (time frame) then a twf 10th level rogue (3/4 BaB). This is part of the balance of damage output the classes in DnD ... the rogue thus gaining sneak attacks - accuracy of strike - while the fighter trained with more use of weapon - speed of strike.

Result... similar stat level 14 fighter (no PrE) has same damage output as level 20 fighter (no PrE)? while a lvl 20 barb only gets mighty rage over the lvl 14 barb, the level 20 rogue has more sneak attack damage over the level 14 rogue and nothing else...
Imo they made this more WOW like in appearance but litterally took some of the perk away from leveling.

[Mercules]

exactly, just another step towards the middle and a cookie cutter wow clone with a dnd name.

personally I find that using autoattack takes alot of the fun out of combat, twitch fighting made it seem alot more active. Now any rednamed is just another portal.

i agree completely! it made the combat incredibly more entertaining. i like how they advertise the "best combat system of any MMO" and then a week after the mod drops they change it to make it more like all the other boring combat systems out there.

the attacks and damage are still there as long as you stand still, but circling and side stepping seem to cost you quite a few attacks as far as i can tell

You don't have to stand still. I've used the full animations instead of canceling animations for faster swinging. You can keep the full number of attacks while sidestepping slowly or by using Tumble. Swing-swing-Tumble-swing-swing-swing-swing-Tumble... and such. Moving slowly does not interrupt your swing progression. I am going to check out my monk tonight and see what happens with his attacks on a portal.

DDO is still not boring and most the people who "twiched" did things like Jump and hold down the jump button so only the first couple swings repeated or canceled at a certain time. In my experience they were so tied to the repetitive "and move... and move.... and move..." that they really were not paying attention to much else.

D&D rewards you for moving slowly while fighting and now DDO does as well. To me that seems correct. We are going to have to get used to the new animation speed though.

[kingfisher]

You don't have to stand still. I've used the full animations instead of canceling animations for faster swinging. You can keep the full number of attacks while sidestepping slowly or by using Tumble. Swing-swing-Tumble-swing-swing-swing-swing-Tumble... and such. Moving slowly does not interrupt your swing progression. I am going to check out my monk tonight and see what happens with his attacks on a portal.

DDO is still not boring and most the people who "twiched" did things like Jump and hold down the jump button so only the first couple swings repeated or canceled at a certain time. In my experience they were so tied to the repetitive "and move... and move.... and move..." that they really were not paying attention to much else.

D&D rewards you for moving slowly while fighting and now DDO does as well. To me that seems correct. We are going to have to get used to the new animation speed though.

moving cost you attacks, or so it seems. tested by a few on a portal, here is the post

[Cap_Man]

When you guys and gals are complaining about the 'twitch' play being nerfed are you just referring to THF or is this across the board somehow. I understand that a THF would have to break the attack chain to get a better attack speed and that is no longer the case ... fix? nerf? in the eye of the beholder I guess.

But how has 'twitch' play changed for others? I play mainly a TWF rogue and I'm all over the place when in combat ... jumping, tumbling, side stepping, fleeing for my life. The only time I just stand there swinging is when there is a portal in front of me.

Other than the over all changes for attack speeds and such is my style of play going to cause me to be nerfed in some new way as opposed to standing still? ... which for me is a good way to die.

[Emili]

Cause ranged characters miss?

Only time I ever seen any range character miss is on a no-roll bug (lost attack) or a roll of one. Borrow I suppose does not have a ranged character or never used or kited a thing but there has never been anything in game a properly built dex based raged ranger ever missed except on a ONE besides in PvP. Elite Orthons - some of the named one as 2 or 3 get a miss ... how often you care bout that? Maybe if they start to introduce mob with an AC as high as characters may get then +5 or +10 may make a difference.