Noob thinks 32 point builds should be for all.

[feynman]

OK, assuming that this is not going to be changed, I recommend building a 28-point cleric and just work your way through the favor. I think there is a thread about the quickest way to get there (I'd look it up, but I'm lazy, and it might have been purged), but if you just work your way through the favor list starting at level one, starting your own groups when necessary (just advertise that you need a guide; clerics never have trouble getting groups), you should have it in no time.

Personally, I have two 28-point builds that I still play; sure, they could be better, and I'm bringing up a replacement for one of them, but I'm not rerolling my cleric

[Deadz]

LIke i said, i personally can live with it, this is the "most" i've stuck with ddo, i'm about to hit 6 on my cleric, and will try to use the bonus xp to level a bit, making some quests easier to solo for favor, but i wanted to share my experiences and feelings on the subject, i also do understand the feeling of it should be earned, and truth be told, vanguard was Ruined for me as a mmo by a quitting player who gave me 5 plat (a ton of money in that game) as i could afford to buy all the things you grind for, so i understand the need to have goals.

I just think unbalanced creation from beginning is a bad idea in a game.. BorrorO's idea of it being retroactive would elevate this feeling, as i could still experiement as i see fit, and eventually reach the skill point cap.. that would make me pretty happy.

[Deadz]

as a casual, i find the game really slows down solo as you lvl .. you have to really "search" out quests to do, and i'm personally locked in a feeling of having a hard time solo'ing my main, and not wanting to roll alts due to wanting to favor cap my main.. yes i heard all of your points, and they are very very valid.. but for me, it made me lose the fun factor for the game the first two times around pretty quickly.. this time i'm forcing my self to grind through it.

[Arianrhod]

I guess it's a matter of perspective. I've been playing 3 years now, and still don't have 32-point builds, and only a few drow. I wouldn't feel "punished" if suddenly everyone got 32-point builds, nor do I feel left out now....my unwillingness to grind for ingredients to make Shroud items seems to me far more limiting than my unwillingness to grind favor for 32-point builds.

On the other hand, it seems nearly all the "fun" builds people post are designed with the assumption of 32-point builds (not to mention tomes, raid gear, crafted gear, etc.). I can see how it would create a perception among newer players in particular that until they get those things they're missing out, and even that everything they do in the process of getting those things has no value in itself, but is simply "the grind" along the way to making the character they really want. Seems a bit silly to me; I play to have fun, not to earn fun later.

[Aganazer]

I don't think the OP is looking for some kind of consolation about 28 pt builds being 'good enough'. That is completely irrelevant. There is obviously a reason motivating everyone to spend those extra 4 points during character creation. You know you don't make new 28 pt characters so why are you feeding him that kind of BS?

It would have been fine if favor unlocked equally powerful races (half orc!) or new cosmetic upgrades. Maybe even allowing a player to permanently unlock elite mode. But making new players feel like they are inferior (even if its not a-big-deal) seems like a bad business decision. It makes the game less approachable to new players.

I must admit that I was very let down when I found out that my first character would most likely be rerolled eventually no matter how well I researched his spec.

[PurdueDave]

Drow still 400
32pt build 1000
something new at 1750
something new at 2500(when cap increases)

I like the idea. Maybe just drop 32 down to 1000 and keep the +2 tome at 1750.

[Arianrhod]

I don't think the OP is looking for some kind of consolation about 28 pt builds being 'good enough'. That is completely irrelevant. There is obviously a reason motivating everyone to spend those extra 4 points during character creation. You know you don't make new 28 pt characters so why are you feeding him that kind of BS?

It would have been fine if favor unlocked equally powerful races (half orc!) or new cosmetic upgrades. Maybe even allowing a player to permanently unlock elite mode. But making new players feel like they are inferior (even if its not a-big-deal) seems like a bad business decision. It makes the game less approachable to new players.

I must admit that I was very let down when I found out that my first character would most likely be rerolled eventually no matter how well I researched his spec.

I can't argue with this, it's a very valid opinion (and one that I expect is quite common among new players - and has been since 32-point builds came into the game).

However, it's also a fact that this last statement ("my first character would most likely be rerolled") has been true since the very beginning, long before 32-point builds existed. Even when there was nothing to reroll a 28-point build as other than another 28-point build, it was still commonly accepted, even expected, that pretty much everyone would eventually either reroll their first character or keep it only out of sentiment, in spite of its flaws. This is because of the complexity of the game - it's nearly impossible to "get it right" the first time, even if you discount game changes that make initial decisions less viable than they were to begin with.

Even if 32-point builds were available to everyone from the start, the only thing that would change the likelihood of a first character being rerolled would be the availability of full respecs (another can of worms, that has been even more hotly debated on the forums).

[lazlow]

op, i feel ya but as one casual to another it was well worth it. I was truly stoked to finally get 1750 ( took 2.5 years as a casual) only happier moment was doing the dragon for the first time. Like the others said and I would agree I find no difference between the 28 and 32 ( in fact ive been a little disappointed, but its not 32 pointers anymore..dont you know its the 32pointers with +2 tomes for every stat ) ) , the X factor here is just experience in the quests... that and some decent gear is what makes all the difference. GO on and Roll up that peck rogue and just lie and say its 32 no one will be the wiser.

laz

[Eelpout]

I don't think the OP is looking for some kind of consolation about 28 pt builds being 'good enough'. That is completely irrelevant. There is obviously a reason motivating everyone to spend those extra 4 points during character creation. You know you don't make new 28 pt characters so why are you feeding him that kind of BS?

It would have been fine if favor unlocked equally powerful races (half orc!) or new cosmetic upgrades. Maybe even allowing a player to permanently unlock elite mode. But making new players feel like they are inferior (even if its not a-big-deal) seems like a bad business decision. It makes the game less approachable to new players.

I must admit that I was very let down when I found out that my first character would most likely be rerolled eventually no matter how well I researched his spec.

The motivating reason to use the extra 4 points once you unlock it is that you have to. Once you unlock 32 points, you have to use all the points or you can't enter the game. Yeah, very few people would leave them off if they could because the 4 extra points help to flesh out the character.

I don't think anyone is feeding him BS. It is more of a "hey, we have all been there, no big deal". If you are worried about feeling gimped from the get-go, you are better off asking for a Greensteele weapon and some +2 tomes, because I can tell you as a casual player those are a H3ll of a lot harder to get than the 1750 favor.

[Thrudh]

32 points makes it much easier to build bizarre multi-class characters, which IS fun...

Roll up a couple of pure classes, like a cleric or a wizard or a barbarian, and you won't miss or need the extra 4 points... Drow also are a good choice for many classes (sorc or rogue or bard).

There are many different characters you can build with Drow or the default 28 points... My cleric Thrudh is a 28 point build and still going strong.

At some point you'll unlock 32 point builds, and then you can play around with the cleric/rogue or fighter/wizard builds...

[DragonKiller]

You know, I wanted a 6 figure salary before I really started working...

Sorry, I just can't understand the point of view that it's unfair if someone else had to work for something, so since they have it I should get it too with out all the work. Which is exactly what you are asking for.

[Strakeln]

I've been a strong supporter of getting rid of the 1750 requirement for 32-point builds. The net impact of this requirement is to drive some paying customers away, that is not the outcome that was desired.

I was introduced to this game by a friend who sounds a lot like the OP. He's a build experimenter, loves to try out new classes/combinations etc. When they came out with 1750, he stopped experimenting and decided to grind out the favor... obviously, any build experimenter wouldn't want to make characters that start out less powerful than everyone else's.

Unfortunately, the grind got to him. So he resigned himself to experimenting with one race - drow. Eventually he got tired of this and left the game. A couple of times he came back, but didn't want to make more stinkin' drow builds. So he would again try to finish grinding out the favor, get bored, and leave the game again.

As it stands now, the only thing that associating 32-point builds with 1750 favor is accomplishing is to discourage new/returning players. This is a horrid decision by Turbine and one that should be reverted immediately. I really have to wonder why no one at Turbine has recognized this.

I don't care that I ground it out/"did the work" for 1750, I want all new players to have 32-point builds right off the bat.

[Lithic]

When 32-pt characters first came out the maximum attainable favor was between 1800-1850. Now THAT was hard to do. Today you can get it by doing the lvl 10 quests and under on elite (or averaging out to every quest on hard, give or take). It's really not difficult. I know its a grind for people changing servers, but wouldnt truly new players want to enjoy as much of the game as possible, thereby doing as many quests as possible? Not to mention that many quests are very different experiences on hard/elite compared to normal.

I can see why a new player would want to unlock 32pters, but if this miniscule grind is too much then MMO's are really not for you. I wonder how many rat tails and boar tusks you need to find to max out favor in a much more popular mmo...

[Deadz]

Sorry should not type while annoyed..

[Deadz]

I can see why a new player would want to unlock 32pters, but if this miniscule grind is too much then MMO's are really not for you. I wonder how many rat tails and boar tusks you need to find to max out favor in a much more popular mmo...

Invalid argument, name one more mmo where you don't have the same starting stats / build points/ or whatever your character creation system uses? Calling it miniscule makes me laugh.. it's basically a grind to cap, which i'm sorry, is not miniscule when you have a few hours in game a week.

[Strakeln]

When 32-pt characters first came out the maximum attainable favor was between 1800-1850. Now THAT was hard to do. Today you can get it by doing the lvl 10 quests and under on elite (or averaging out to every quest on hard, give or take). It's really not difficult. I know its a grind for people changing servers, but wouldnt truly new players want to enjoy as much of the game as possible, thereby doing as many quests as possible? Not to mention that many quests are very different experiences on hard/elite compared to normal.

I can see why a new player would want to unlock 32pters, but if this miniscule grind is too much then MMO's are really not for you. I wonder how many rat tails and boar tusks you need to find to max out favor in a much more popular mmo...

People play this game for fun. Each person has a unique definition of what maximizes their fun. For many people, myself included, grinding is not fun at all.

Why is it that your definition of fun has to apply to others?

Will your gaming experience be adversely effected by decoupling 1750 and 32-point builds? If so, how? If not, then why do you insist that others be forced to do something they don't enjoy?

[krud]

its not whether the toon is gimped or not, i have 28 pointers and 32 pointers also and can hardly tell the difference.
but i know several people who have quit because they feel like they need to achieve 32 before they actually start playing.
it is one of those things that if it were changed would be much more welcoming to new players who already have a HUGE gap between them and vets

Those players will always find something to be "gimped" about, whether it is real, or imaginary (such as the 28/32pt difference). A new enhancement that comes out, "I can't have it because I MC the wrong way". A new weapon, new ability, class, etc. The list goes on and on. They need to realize that their perception about what is gimp is what's the problem. I don't think Turbine needs to adjust the game to make up for some people's false notions of gimpiness.

[Eelpout]

Invalid argument, name one more mmo where you don't have the same starting stats / build points/ or whatever your character creation system uses? Calling it miniscule makes me laugh.. it's basically a grind to cap, which i'm sorry, is not miniscule when you have a few hours in game a week.

There is not really a comparable creation system betweeen DDO and any other MMO out there. You don't assign points, stats, or any other build blocks of your character in other MMO's. You get all the same starting attributes as every other player who rolls up that same character.

I do know that there are other MMO's out there that make you hit a certain level before you can roll up unlockable classes or alternative modes of transportation.

As an addendum, I do think a revamp of the favor system is within reason. I also don't know that I would be all that worked up about 32pts given to everybody, even after spending the last 8 months trying to help a buddy who only plays 4 hours a week get to 1750.

[branmakmuffin]

Without having read all the intervening posts, and writing as someone without access to 32-point builds, my position is that 28-point builds are the norm and not "gimped" in any way. 32-point builds are a reward for those who spend a lot of time playing and an incentive to encourage others to keep playing more, i.e., it's a marketing ploy. Give everyone 32-point builds and "poof," one of incentives to play a lot and to keep on playing a lot is gone.

Ergo, bad idea.

[uhgungawa]

No easy buttons. If you want it, earn it like everyone else