Noob thinks 32 point builds should be for all.

[Deadz]

I'm sure this argument has happened 100 times but let me say my peace, then you can trash it all you want .

as a married man with a newborn, i hardly get time to mmo.. now the strength of DDO is caracter creation, but.. without time, it's very hard to group alot, and it's very hard to cap a character.. you all see how many posts i have, when i started.. well this is my third account (they are like 2 bucks on cd-key sites).. and i have my first toon approaching 600 favor.. lol

what this does to me, personally.. it keeps me from trying alts and experimenting, which imo is the strength of this game, severely decreasing my "fun factor"

the favor makes sense, and the "cap" gives you that +2 tome, so people still get something, i just personally feel that the lack of 32 point builds makes me feel like my alts are "gimped" from the start.. i'm not saying they wouldn't be w/ 32 points (go ahead, giggle) but the feeling is there, decreasing my fun factor..

and

2) this would not hurt anyone in any way shape or form.. yes the hardcore say they "earned it" and everyone should as well.. but I feel this game is no longer new, and well, what's the point imo it makes more sense to put everyone on a level playing field and INCREASE the fun factor for the casuals, without DECREASING the fun factor for the rest...

Just my opinion, but i can live with trieing like heck to grind out those points to get my 32 pointer, i'd just rather roll my 32 point rogue and enjoy him .

[ArkoHighStar]

Personally I think overall favor rewards need a little bit of an overhaul

Drow still 400
32pt build 1000
something new at 1750
something new at 2500(when cap increases)


1000 favor points is basically guaranted for anyone who makes it up to lvl 16 these days

[Kanamycin]

i have a few friends who would come back to this game if this happened, otherwise your first char is just a grind,
1000 favor is much more reasonable.

[Deadz]

i have a few friends who would come back to this game if this happened, otherwise your first char is just a grind,
1000 favor is much more reasonable.

That is basically how i feel, that my first char is a grind..

I"m not saying 28 points you can't be just as effective.. i'm just sharing the feeling it gives this casual.. i'm finding myself more excited to tag along on a higher lvl's favor run where i can just leech favor then i am running a quest for xp..

i'm not crying "DO IT!" i'm just sharing my opinion as a casual player who's as casual as they come..

now if only i can find someone to watch my baby for the weekend so i can slug down some brews and get some of this xp / loot

[krud]

i'm just sharing my opinion as a casual player who's as casual as they come..

You have a powergamer mentality with limited play time. A casual gamer wouldn't sweat those 4 build points.

Three accounts and not one character abovel level 6? Getting those extra 4 build points won't change anything. Obsessive rerollers will always be obsessive rerollers. You aren't even reaching the point where those extra build points will really matter. All of a sudden with 32pts you will grind the xp to cap? Grind for loot? Grind for ingredients? Unlikely. All this does is give a temporary reprieve to those who will most likely quit anyway over whatever grind it is they don't like.

Besides, with so many rerolls under 6, how many times have you run the same quests over and over? That is not a grind?

I would be in favor of having total server favor go towards unlocking 32pt builds, and keep tomes as individual favor rewards. You get total server favor for completing quests on any one of your characters. No overlapping favor (i.e. quests only count once toward total server favor, even if you have done the same quest on multiple characters). This way you don't have to grind only one character to get it. You just need to explore the content once with any one of your characters to earn the favor toward 32 builds. This might make it slightly easier on obsessive rerollers and experimenters, yet keep the idea that you must still explore a majority of the content to earn the favor. Of course, an obsessive reroller will complain that they now have multiple toons that need to be rerolled instead of just one.

[Deadz]

It's not about this casual rerolling three accounts --first two are not used its 2 bucks to start over..

my initial opinion is about the illusion it creates not about the gameplay facts. notice the word feel being littered throughout my posts.

note:
typing onehanded while holding my kid is tough but she is lovin g listening to the velvet underground and the who on my comp, what a good kid....

[Deadz]

You have a powergamer mentality with limited play time. A casual gamer wouldn't sweat those 4 build points.

alot of casuals do.. it ain't just me

[Borror0]

All this does is give a temporary reprieve to those who will most likely quit anyway over whatever grind it is they don't like.

That's fallacious. More often than not, a decision to leave is based off multiple factors.

The reasoning that something should be left there because it will only be "a temporary reprieve to those who will most likely quit anyway" could be used for about anything, but gamebreaking bugs and lag. Also, your reasoning assumes that all grind is necessary and that it cannot be lessened in any way AND that the rewards for that grind are perfectly balanced.

[negative]

As a founder, I'm not sure how I feel about this. 32-pt builds were not in the game originally, and due to that a number of my characters are still 28-pt. Specifically, I have 3 28-pt builds that I still play regularlly, and I honestly can't tell the difference.

Point is, I wasn't even given the option to play a single character to 1750 before I created any alts. So I have a hard time feeling bad for new players who do have that option. I'm not huge on grind, and I hate getting 1750 favor, but without a way to convert existing 28-pt builds to 32 I really can't be in favor of giving away 32-pt builds to all new players from the start.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

As a founder... [snip] ...I wasn't even given the option to play a single character to 1750 before I created any alts. So I have a hard time feeling bad for new players who do have that option. I'm not huge on grind, and I hate getting 1750 favor, but without a way to convert existing 28-pt builds to 32 I really can't be in favor of giving away 32-pt builds to all new players from the start.

Agreed. If 32 point builds are going to be given to everyone, that sort of necessitates conversion of existing builds to 32 point, which would in turn probably lead to a full respec (since you would have had those extra points from the beginning).

[frugal_gourmet]

I have no problem with 1750 unlocking 32 point builds. As long as there is some way to get that benefit with the character who unlocked it.

[DragonKiller]

2 of my 5 lvl 16's are 28 pt builds. 32 pt builds do NOT make you uber, nor do they substantially change your game play. My 28pt ORIGINAL character is able to do all end game content, even on elite with no real noticeable loss from my 32 pt builds.

Gear, and skill matter thousands of times more than does 4 points at creation.

The grass isn't greener, learn to live with it.

[Kanamycin]

its not whether the toon is gimped or not, i have 28 pointers and 32 pointers also and can hardly tell the difference.
but i know several people who have quit because they feel like they need to achieve 32 before they actually start playing.
it is one of those things that if it were changed would be much more welcoming to new players who already have a HUGE gap between them and vets

[Deadz]

but i know several people who have quit because they feel like they need to achieve 32 before they actually start playing.
it is one of those things that if it were changed would be much more welcoming to new players who already have a HUGE gap between them and vets

Tis' my point.. i feel the same way about having to achieve 32 points before i start playing, i know it is not true, but the feeling is "still there"

[William_the_Bat]

I concur. Build experimentation is half the fun of the game, and there's a lot of things that are really tough to do without 32 points. Especially if you like paladins or monks, or strange multiclass builds. (cleric/rogue, anyone?)

People say those 4 points don't really make a difference, but most of my characters end up dumping constitution to get the other stats they need. (I know, bad!)

[Zenako]

its not whether the toon is gimped or not, i have 28 pointers and 32 pointers also and can hardly tell the difference.
but i know several people who have quit because they feel like they need to achieve 32 before they actually start playing.
it is one of those things that if it were changed would be much more welcoming to new players who already have a HUGE gap between them and vets

IT would not close the gap in any measureable way. That GAP is composed of game knowledge, quest knowledge, gear and making the right choices along the way.

For any character focused on core abilities of that class those extra points amount to an almost imperceptable difference (usually just bumping up CON on many caster builds, and perhaps CHA on most melee builds for INTIM or UMD, both of which are not what I would consider beginner skills).

As some have mentioned, clerics make excellent candidates for your 1750 favor build if that is a urgent goal for you. If you actually explore most of the game and experience the range of quests in the game, it is almost hard to NOT get close to 1750 favor.

I have one 8th level cleric who I play on occasions who is closing in on 1000 favor already by doing just that. I do not run and rerun the same quests over and over again with them. Find that boring.

I would wager that most of the characters on any server are 28 point builds. That the players with all 32 point biulds at this point are the hard core players, on their 4th iteration of a build just trying to find just the right balance to do all they want to do with that build. As such normal builds are not gimped when playing with normal players (since those same tweaked builds almost guarenteed to be twinked to the gills as well, which will overshadow ANY build differences.)

[Eelpout]

I am a somewhat casual gamer who unlocked the 32 point builds, but I still primarily play my 2 main 28 pointers. They are still fun to play, besides playstyle and gear make up a lot more ground than 4 extra build points. Yeah, 2 players with equal uberness, 32 point probably will slightly out perform, but not by much.

I definately could see it if they lowered the favor level and added some other rewards at different intervals. I don't see any need to do away with a favor requirement on the 32pt though. Maybe that is just the selfish "I had to fuss with it over a good period of time, so you should too" attitude. Part of any MMO is having things to earn and accomplish, since you can't technically "beat" the game.

[krud]

its not whether the toon is gimped or not, i have 28 pointers and 32 pointers also and can hardly tell the difference.
but i know several people who have quit because they feel like they need to achieve 32 before they actually start playing.
it is one of those things that if it were changed would be much more welcoming to new players who already have a HUGE gap between them and vets

Those players will always find something to be "gimped" about, whether it is real, or imaginary (such as the 28/32pt difference). A new enhancement that comes out, "I can't have it because I MC the wrong way". A new weapon, new ability, class, etc. The list goes on and on. They need to realize that their perception about what is gimp is what's the problem. I don't think Turbine needs to adjust the game to make up for some people's false notions of gimpiness.

[Fenrisulven6]

i have a few friends who would come back to this game if this happened, otherwise your first char is just a grind,
1000 favor is much more reasonable.

/signed

Just did this. As a new player, you quickly realize you made mistakes designing the first toon - its rarely in sync with the game mechanics [who would have thought Sneak would be so useless in group play?]

So the goal becomes hitting 1750 favor so you can reroll your prime and begin your stable of 32 point builds. You grind and zerg and don't really get to know the quests. It leads to experiences that I don't think are favorable to retaining an incoming new player pool. For that alone, it should be ditched - all players start with 32 pt builds.

A casual gamer wouldn't sweat those 4 build points.

Maybe you wouldn't. For me, those extra 4 points were needed to turn my trapmonkey into a DPS rogue.

[PurdueDave]

Drow still 400
32pt build 1000
something new at 1750
something new at 2500(when cap increases)

I like the idea. Maybe just drop 32 down to 1000 and keep the +2 tome at 1750.