Noob thinks 32 point builds should be for all.

[Deadz]

I'm sure this argument has happened 100 times but let me say my peace, then you can trash it all you want .

as a married man with a newborn, i hardly get time to mmo.. now the strength of DDO is caracter creation, but.. without time, it's very hard to group alot, and it's very hard to cap a character.. you all see how many posts i have, when i started.. well this is my third account (they are like 2 bucks on cd-key sites).. and i have my first toon approaching 600 favor.. lol

what this does to me, personally.. it keeps me from trying alts and experimenting, which imo is the strength of this game, severely decreasing my "fun factor"

the favor makes sense, and the "cap" gives you that +2 tome, so people still get something, i just personally feel that the lack of 32 point builds makes me feel like my alts are "gimped" from the start.. i'm not saying they wouldn't be w/ 32 points (go ahead, giggle) but the feeling is there, decreasing my fun factor..

and

2) this would not hurt anyone in any way shape or form.. yes the hardcore say they "earned it" and everyone should as well.. but I feel this game is no longer new, and well, what's the point imo it makes more sense to put everyone on a level playing field and INCREASE the fun factor for the casuals, without DECREASING the fun factor for the rest...

Just my opinion, but i can live with trieing like heck to grind out those points to get my 32 pointer, i'd just rather roll my 32 point rogue and enjoy him .

[ArkoHighStar]

Personally I think overall favor rewards need a little bit of an overhaul

Drow still 400
32pt build 1000
something new at 1750
something new at 2500(when cap increases)


1000 favor points is basically guaranted for anyone who makes it up to lvl 16 these days

[mediocresurgeon]

At one point, everyone was happy with 28-point characters. Some people still run these original 28-point characters as their main.

Really, how much of a difference does 4 points make? Speaking from experience, not much. This is easily made up with stat tomes (+2 unbound from high-level content, +1 tomes from just about anywhere, +3 bound stat tomes from raids). Usually, it's not how many stat points that character starts out with that counts, but how much a person plays any single character that matters.

[DelScorcho]

Roll up a character that isn't really stat dependent. You'll be there in no time.

[Kanamycin]

i have a few friends who would come back to this game if this happened, otherwise your first char is just a grind,
1000 favor is much more reasonable.

[Deadz]

i have a few friends who would come back to this game if this happened, otherwise your first char is just a grind,
1000 favor is much more reasonable.

That is basically how i feel, that my first char is a grind..

I"m not saying 28 points you can't be just as effective.. i'm just sharing the feeling it gives this casual.. i'm finding myself more excited to tag along on a higher lvl's favor run where i can just leech favor then i am running a quest for xp..

i'm not crying "DO IT!" i'm just sharing my opinion as a casual player who's as casual as they come..

now if only i can find someone to watch my baby for the weekend so i can slug down some brews and get some of this xp / loot

[Deadz]

Roll up a character that isn't really stat dependent. You'll be there in no time.

That's why i'm playing a cleric.. plus it solo's very well..

[wamjratl1]

A couple of things:

28 point builds are not gimped. it's 4 points. No biggie. My original 28 pointer is still my main and hangs with some of the big boys now. Gear, tomes, playstyle, all these make those 4 points less noticeable.

Get your favor on one toon. That's all. And then they are open to you forever!

I'm in the same boat as you - wife, kids, job, not much playtime etc. and yeah it took a long time to level my first toon. I also never really focused on favor or I could have gotten it a lot faster. There are almost always favor runs going on on Ghallanda. Whatever lvl your characters are, you can join a favor group even with members with capped toons. They won't care cuz you'll be the only one losing xp (if you are a much lower level).

I like the favor thing for 32 points. It only has to be done once per account, it adds a goal to the game and gives a little something else to strive for even if you are capped.

Yeah it takes guys like you and me a little longer (esp if you like to experiment and reroll a lot) but that's the breaks. People who play more get stuff faster (not just favor but loot, flagging, xp, etc...)

[seldarin]

At one point, everyone was happy with 28-point characters. Some people still run these original 28-point characters as their main.

Really, how much of a difference does 4 points make? Speaking from experience, not much. This is easily made up with stat tomes (+2 unbound from high-level content, +1 tomes from just about anywhere, +3 bound stat tomes from raids). Usually, it's not how many stat points that character starts out with that counts, but how much a person plays any single character that matters.

Very true. I still run my main which is a 28 pt cleric from 3 years ago. Whilst not as uber as others, which is a lot to do with gear, or not being a "BC" build or specialised build in general, still gets the job done with minimal fuss, comes down to the person pushing the buttons not the numbers.

Those extra 4 pts arent going to make or break a toon. They only partially come into play if you are making one of the elite lvl forum builds, rather than experimenting too much.

Just an idea, rather than worry too much about initial 32 pt build toons, build a scratch toon, lvl to 400 favour, roll up a drow anything, rogue, caster etc, then play them till you hit 1750. Being that favour cap is around 2800, its really not that hard evne with casual gameplay to hit 1750 in a short time span.

I am old school player and i personally advocate the earning of 32 pt toons, rather than be given, not because of my older characters, but because i dont think that everyone should be given everything on a platter right off the bat, doesnt give any incentive to progress through the game.

If you only have around 800 favour at lvl 16 it means you have been power lvlling and getting to cap in the shortest route possible, in which case i personally have no sympathy at all.

Im classed as a casual gamer myself, and have 2 toons at over 1750 favour and 2 more quite close to it, it isnt that hard even with minimal time.

If you want to play around with builds, those 4 extra pts really arent going to make or break.

[Harncw]

well this is my third account (they are like 2 bucks on cd-key sites).. and i have my first toon approaching 600 favor.. lol

I dont see this going very well for you.
Think drow rogue
gratz on the baby!

[negative]

As a founder, I'm not sure how I feel about this. 32-pt builds were not in the game originally, and due to that a number of my characters are still 28-pt. Specifically, I have 3 28-pt builds that I still play regularlly, and I honestly can't tell the difference.

Point is, I wasn't even given the option to play a single character to 1750 before I created any alts. So I have a hard time feeling bad for new players who do have that option. I'm not huge on grind, and I hate getting 1750 favor, but without a way to convert existing 28-pt builds to 32 I really can't be in favor of giving away 32-pt builds to all new players from the start.

[DragonKiller]

2 of my 5 lvl 16's are 28 pt builds. 32 pt builds do NOT make you uber, nor do they substantially change your game play. My 28pt ORIGINAL character is able to do all end game content, even on elite with no real noticeable loss from my 32 pt builds.

Gear, and skill matter thousands of times more than does 4 points at creation.

The grass isn't greener, learn to live with it.

[Deadz]

I dont see this going very well for you.
Think drow rogue
gratz on the baby!

Can i reskin it to a human or halfling? lol that would make me happy...

[Kanamycin]

its not whether the toon is gimped or not, i have 28 pointers and 32 pointers also and can hardly tell the difference.
but i know several people who have quit because they feel like they need to achieve 32 before they actually start playing.
it is one of those things that if it were changed would be much more welcoming to new players who already have a HUGE gap between them and vets

[Deadz]

but i know several people who have quit because they feel like they need to achieve 32 before they actually start playing.
it is one of those things that if it were changed would be much more welcoming to new players who already have a HUGE gap between them and vets

Tis' my point.. i feel the same way about having to achieve 32 points before i start playing, i know it is not true, but the feeling is "still there"

[William_the_Bat]

I concur. Build experimentation is half the fun of the game, and there's a lot of things that are really tough to do without 32 points. Especially if you like paladins or monks, or strange multiclass builds. (cleric/rogue, anyone?)

People say those 4 points don't really make a difference, but most of my characters end up dumping constitution to get the other stats they need. (I know, bad!)

[Zenako]

its not whether the toon is gimped or not, i have 28 pointers and 32 pointers also and can hardly tell the difference.
but i know several people who have quit because they feel like they need to achieve 32 before they actually start playing.
it is one of those things that if it were changed would be much more welcoming to new players who already have a HUGE gap between them and vets

IT would not close the gap in any measureable way. That GAP is composed of game knowledge, quest knowledge, gear and making the right choices along the way.

For any character focused on core abilities of that class those extra points amount to an almost imperceptable difference (usually just bumping up CON on many caster builds, and perhaps CHA on most melee builds for INTIM or UMD, both of which are not what I would consider beginner skills).

As some have mentioned, clerics make excellent candidates for your 1750 favor build if that is a urgent goal for you. If you actually explore most of the game and experience the range of quests in the game, it is almost hard to NOT get close to 1750 favor.

I have one 8th level cleric who I play on occasions who is closing in on 1000 favor already by doing just that. I do not run and rerun the same quests over and over again with them. Find that boring.

I would wager that most of the characters on any server are 28 point builds. That the players with all 32 point biulds at this point are the hard core players, on their 4th iteration of a build just trying to find just the right balance to do all they want to do with that build. As such normal builds are not gimped when playing with normal players (since those same tweaked builds almost guarenteed to be twinked to the gills as well, which will overshadow ANY build differences.)

[Eelpout]

I am a somewhat casual gamer who unlocked the 32 point builds, but I still primarily play my 2 main 28 pointers. They are still fun to play, besides playstyle and gear make up a lot more ground than 4 extra build points. Yeah, 2 players with equal uberness, 32 point probably will slightly out perform, but not by much.

I definately could see it if they lowered the favor level and added some other rewards at different intervals. I don't see any need to do away with a favor requirement on the 32pt though. Maybe that is just the selfish "I had to fuss with it over a good period of time, so you should too" attitude. Part of any MMO is having things to earn and accomplish, since you can't technically "beat" the game.

[Dracolich]

I kinda agree the 1750 is a bit of a stretch, but if it were lowered it would kinda make people who gained 1750 when there were alot less quests a bit sour. Its kinda like what SOE did with Jedi in SWG (not to say that they shouldnt have been in to begin with). They made it super hard and mysterious to unlock jedi. Then made it even harder with the XP grind. Finally they made it to where everyone could be a jedi thus cheapening the whole experience and kinda spitting on those who worked for what they wanted.

I believe if you truely want it bad enough you can get it and getting it will make you feel alot better then if the standards were lowered simply to make it easier.

[Borror0]

Not having 32 point buy does not gimp your character, or make it hard for a new player to complete quests. For that reason, it should be a reward and not given for free.

But, as the OP noted, it keeps new player from experimenting and playing multiple alts. That's not good. There should be some mechanic to upgrade 28 pointers into 32 pointers, for free. Either when achieving 1750 favor on those characters, or when unlocking 32 pointers for that server. It was a mistake that this was not in place from the day they added the 1750 favor reward.

Sure, some might say "created a non-stat dependent character and grind it quick", but to most that's not fun. And fun is all that matters in a game.

If Turbine ever implements a character respec, it could be a way to kill two birds with the same stone.