Do your PUGs ignore blade barrier?

[Djeserit]

I am finding that many times after I cast this spell, the fighters I am with will run over to the enemy and start a toe to toe slugfest. Usually they don't move around at all until the critter they are focused on is dead, unless it tries to move, so it only syufferes from one hit of the blades. Often they will start their fight outside the blade barrier altogether.

I'm not really sure if a lot of players haven't played a cleric to cap, so don't know how to use this spell tactically, or maybe they think the best (only?) use for all my SP is healing them while they stand around flat-footed.

DDO is supposed to be an 'active' game. How do you get the fighters you run with to move?

???

[Freeman]

The same things happen to any AoE spells, including fogs, webs, dance spheres, firewalls, etc. I don't know how many times I'll see a nice line of melee people fighting just OUTSIDE all the CC. I guess they don't want those evil mobs interfering with my nice, pretty spells or something. I find the best solution is to bang my head against the desk a few times. Nothing else seems to work anyway.

[bobbryan2]

I am finding that many times after I cast this spell, the fighters I am with will run over to the enemy and start a toe to toe slugfest. Usually they don't move around at all until the critter they are focused on is dead, unless it tries to move, so it only syufferes from one hit of the blades. Often they will start their fight outside the blade barrier altogether.

I'm not really sure if a lot of players haven't played a cleric to cap, so don't know how to use this spell tactically, or maybe they think the best (only?) use for all my SP is healing them while they stand around flat-footed.

DDO is supposed to be an 'active' game. How do you get the fighters you run with to move?

???

Yes.. in general... it's not smart to cast blade barrier when you have a group of melees that are wearing everything down.

Because they need to be stationary to be more effective... and if you're just having them kite through the blade barrier... you may as well be soloing.

Blade barrier is an amazing solo or shortmanning spell... it's not a very good full party spell. It's actually not a great use of mana in those fights, and you'd normally be better off with a comet fall or greater command.

That being said... it's really annoying when players don't fight in a fire wall... because they just have to stand there for that one.

[Lithic]

The problem with bladebarrier is that it is not fighter-friendly at all, unlick firewall. The monster must move in and out of it to take any damage, preferably at high speed for best effect. This makes it difficult for melees to hit them at all, and if they do get a roll it is likely at -4 to hit from their movement penalty, not to mention loss of attack chain bonuses.

Personally I concentrate on greater command and commetfall for crowdcontrol when in a party. Bladebarrier is best used when solo, when the boss has lots of minions your BB can take out while the fighters take on Mr. Baddie, or in things like offering where the goal is speed above all else.

[Draclaud]

They don't want to run them into our firewalls/acidfogs/blade barriers for fear that we might "steal" a kill from them. Ego stroking really. I notice that they'll fight in a dancing ball/solid fog just fine...

Another reason to ditch kill count again. But then it'd be tougher to know who good tanks are...ah the draw-backs

[MrCow]

If you really want to make the fighters use a blade barrier then make a cleric with intimidation.

Blade Barrier is also quite effective in groups that are magic or ranged heavy or in situations where the monsters have randomly changing aggro (aka, flesh golems, zombies, teleporting devils, etc.).

[bobbryan2]

They don't want to run them into our firewalls/acidfogs/blade barriers for fear that we might "steal" a kill from them. Ego stroking really. I notice that they'll fight in a dancing ball/solid fog just fine...

Another reason to ditch kill count again. But then it'd be tougher to know who good tanks are...ah the draw-backs

No... blade barrier is just a stupid group spell.

The same fighters will usually fight in an acid fog/firewall combo. The ones that don't are worth complaining about... but not the fighters that won't kite mobs for you.

[bobbryan2]

If you really want to make the fighters use a blade barrier then make a cleric with intimidation.

Blade Barrier is also quite effective in groups that are magic or ranged heavy or in situations where the monsters have randomly changing aggro (aka, flesh golems, zombies, teleporting devils, etc.).

Especially the devils... I did forget that one.

[Silverjade]

Comeing at it after playing caster clr and ftr.I find it annoying when hey the clr has this nice bb up and the caster goes and fire walls out side of it when its much more effective to have firewall and bb together.That way if the casters jumping around the bb the mobs that move go in to the bb and the firewall while the melees are inside the ring swinging.

[Do'Urden]

Blade Barrier can also be a decent proxy intimidate / aggro management tool for tough trash mob fights if you (cleric) have a decent blocking DR and Quicken Probably save you SP in the long run if your melee are smart enough to fight from the backside and focus on the same mob (not likely in an average PUG).

[Qzipoun]

If you're having issues getting mobs to hit your blade barriers I want to say it's your fault not the fighters'. A blade barrier does much more damage in one hit than a fighter would, if you don't have aggro then your barrier is either too weak, cast too late or just not well placed.

The only issue I encounter is with intimitanks wanting to "save" me and intimidating mobs off of me.

That said, trying to ALWAYS have aggro and just run mobs in/out of a barrier is just as boring to the fighters, so don't over do it.

[Furysetzer]

A BB is meant to be a defensive spell imo. That's why it has a long casting time and you can't direct it beyond yourself. That said, any good AC Cleric should have no trouble getting in the melee, dropping one and getting back to the rear.

[Lundivar]

Some ignore, but most after watching a max + empowered + potency item BB take note. That said, you don't cast it everywhere, mostly when you know they'll be a decent sized fight there. I find it especially effective with devils & orthons and everything that teleports for obvious reasons. (Just make sure you're ok with taking a lot of aggro if the tanks or fighters are not too good at keeping aggro, you know who those are...)

Oh, and if the group fights outsid of the BB take note of the damage they take, if they didn't really take that much damage then it was a wasted spell really, if people start falling pass 50% HP they'll start to retreat to the BB all on their own...

L.

[kinar]

as others have said...I rarely cast BB while in a group. very few people are mindful of it.

I've grouped with bards who insist on casting dancing ball in the middle of the BB as if they are trying to get it centered perfectly.

Caster who use fogs are no better since it slows down the mobs (causing less damage).

BB is one of the only situations in the game where it is beneficial for the mobs to run around instead of slowing/stopping in the middle. Most people just don't know that or they have other plans and simply don't care.

[kinar]

If you're having issues getting mobs to hit your blade barriers I want to say it's your fault not the fighters'. A blade barrier does much more damage in one hit than a fighter would

Max emp pot BB hits for around 280-300. Most good fighters/Barbs can do that much in a round (minimum 4 hits). Additionally, no amount of damage can compete with a good intimitank.

But, if you have a good intimitank, then there is no reason to be casing BB

[Pallol_One-Eye]

Max emp pot BB hits for around 280-300. Most good fighters/Barbs can do that much in a round (minimum 4 hits). Additionally, no amount of damage can compete with a good intimitank.

But, if you have a good intimitank, then there is no reason to be casing BB

I only have a lowbie cleric right now. Having said that, most capped melee types-Barb/Ranger/Fighter/Pally, etc have Raid gear or Shroud gear that can do that sort of damage with 1 swing on a crit.

Most PUGs I am in finish off the mobs fast enough that a nice BB becomes an afterthought. Having said that, if I see a cleric pop a BB, I'll try to intim everything into it so the damage kites everything down that much quicker.

I would also agree that not every player takes notes of their surrounding parties actions. SA-situational awareness for those who don't know, is very useful IMHO.

For my own tastes, Cometfall or Greater Command is more preferred in "most" instances. If the mob is large, BB away and who cares about the kill count....but I am a little different than most....so what do I know???

[Lundivar]

Max emp pot BB hits for around 280-300.

If you put points into the crit range those figures go up.

[Xanthrawl]

I have a capped cleric, wizard and several fighters. If I am on my cleric in most any quest and throw down a BB that goes unused (intimitank draws aggro, or I throw it late, etc) then I run past my party who is actively fighting and go to the next fight by myself. Throw down a new Max Emp Quickened BB and run the mobs threw. Usually when I finish my fight, the rest of the group is catching up. Throw a quick heal and move on.

[Lundivar]

I have a capped cleric, wizard and several fighters. If I am on my cleric in most any quest and throw down a BB that goes unused (intimitank draws aggro, or I throw it late, etc) then I run past my party who is actively fighting and go to the next fight by myself. Throw down a new Max Emp Quickened BB and run the mobs threw. Usually when I finish my fight, the rest of the group is catching up. Throw a quick heal and move on.

YUP! Use that tactic often too, works great.

[noinfo]

Yes.. in general... it's not smart to cast blade barrier when you have a group of melees that are wearing everything down.

Because they need to be stationary to be more effective... and if you're just having them kite through the blade barrier... you may as well be soloing.

Blade barrier is an amazing solo or shortmanning spell... it's not a very good full party spell. It's actually not a great use of mana in those fights, and you'd normally be better off with a comet fall or greater command.

That being said... it's really annoying when players don't fight in a fire wall... because they just have to stand there for that one.

Then they can be stationary on the other side of the bb and allow mobs to come to them. This I think is the point of the original post not the kiting aspect. But use the BB so that the mobs have had damage done to them by 2 hits of bb before engaging.