Why Bother making Raid Armor...

[manfredshw]

turbine hates ranged combat.

[hydra_ex]

turbine hates ranged combat.

more than 75% of the player base hates ranged combat, and 10% more don't like it.

[silverraven]

I was under the impression that thouse armors where activated by being hit not by hitting others? i thought it was the same as the disruption necklace or bracers what ever it is that works when they hit you. so obviously its not gonna work on ranged people cause your not getting hit.

that would be a "____" Guard. Like my greensteel has Slay Living Guard, or a mace that has Air Guard

[adamr09]

more than 75% of the player base hates ranged combat, and 10% more don't like it.

not so sure about that. people dont hate it, they just dont prefer that play style. and idk why people dont like it. ranged combat can do tons of damage (sure maybe not as much as a completely twinked maxd tempest build) but still you should see how fast mobs drop when you combine many shot + haste + human versatility damage boost + what ever uber bow you are using XD

or if you can get your hands on a WoP bow, throw in a lvl or fighter for the haste boost+many shot+haste= TONS of mobs dead in barely anytime.

but anyways, yes i totally agree that it should work with ranged combat.it would help so much to have mobs be running at you slower so you have more time to kill them before they get to you.


-adamr

[Phineasj]

turbine hates ranged combat.

sure, but only when it is our ranged attacks. If the gnolls in the vale, can hamstring you with an arrow, why can't we hit armor destruction with arrow?

[chemonz]

O.K. so the armor isn't supposed to work with ranged. Not a big deal really but it does cause me to ask why not? What is the thinking behind that.

Would a ranged character with crippling armor be overpowered? I find that hard to believe.

Still with all the issues that ranged combat has it really doesn't matter if the hound armors work with ranged or not.

[Mistinarperadnacles]

Its because Crippling is a slow effect and Turbine for whatever reason are very cautious about providing any method of kiting mobs around with no risk.

Seeing as crippled mobs can't catch you, the paranoid fear is that using this will allow people to range everything with impunity. (despite that bows have a sucky crit range and plenty of stuff has fortification or crit immunities)

Hence working as intended on melee only and also why I strongly doubt we'll see much in the way of "ranged love" any time soon.

Ranged combat is kinda handy as a fallback or secondary or support role and thats how they want it to stay.

[Solmage]

I quite like my BP of Destruction. It helps all the 3/4 BAB melee hit more often.

You like the gold pajamas? Because I have to make a will save vs fugly each time I load the character using it, and if I roll a 2 I'll just delete the armor - if I roll a 1, I may even delete the character just to remove it from my sight faster!

Now, I love the MECHANICS of the mithril pajamas, but ... ****, even on the sexy elven girls it looks bad. On the male dwarf? UGH!!!

I can only hope we'll eventually will be able to change skins.. I really really like that MBP's effect on my strength-based ranger...

more than 75% of the player base hates ranged combat, and 10% more don't like it.

Most of us liked ranged combat when it was 100% better than melee combat =)

not so sure about that. people dont hate it, they just dont prefer that play style. and idk why people dont like it. ranged combat can do tons of damage (sure maybe not as much as a completely twinked maxd tempest build) but still you should see how fast mobs drop when you combine many shot + haste + human versatility damage boost + what ever uber bow you are using XD

People "don't like it", because while you an outdamage a melee for 20 seconds each 2 minutes, you'll go back to doing 1/4th or less of the damage a melee does during the rest 1 minute 40 seconds.

When you consider the average fight against a 2000 hp Orthon lasts 4-7 seconds, unless you're fighting a pit fiend, ranged combat as DPS is junk. You'll keep pace in the first fight and then just use up space dps-wise.

(Although ranged is quite nice as secondary CC or on hit effects (disruption comes to mind). I suspect this is why ranged players are peeved about these armors - they'd be perfect to complement their on-hit debuffing potential - too perfect in fact)

Its because Crippling is a slow effect and Turbine for whatever reason are very cautious about providing any method of kiting mobs around with no risk..

Bingo. And that's why it won't be "fixed" to work on ranged.

I suspect you'll have better luck asking for a crippling shot to be added to deepwood sniper, or just tacked onto the existing abilities that have timers built-in.

[geoffhanna]

Actually there is - black dragon scales...

Except that does not help repeaters or throwers, and does not stack with haste

[barecm]

I am 100% convinced it was supposed to work with ranged, but since ranged combat has been broken since day 1, I don't really expect any love. Just because AFTER the fact, the devs say ... oh yeah, thats the way it supposed to work... Just like Microsoft saying.. oh yeah, that security hole in our software... thats a FEATURE, not a bug.

Just pointing out an observation... so resume flaming.

By the way, the crippling armor is LAME for lvl 16 loot. L A M E.

[adamr09]

People "don't like it", because while you an outdamage a melee for 20 seconds each 2 minutes, you'll go back to doing 1/4th or less of the damage a melee does during the rest 1 minute 40 seconds.

When you consider the average fight against a 2000 hp Orthon lasts 4-7 seconds, unless you're fighting a pit fiend, ranged combat as DPS is junk. You'll keep pace in the first fight and then just use up space dps-wise.

(Although ranged is quite nice as secondary CC or on hit effects (disruption comes to mind). I suspect this is why ranged players are peeved about these armors - they'd be perfect to complement their on-hit debuffing potential - too perfect in fact)

a lot of ppl say this but on my ranger, he is doing tons of damage even when not using many shot. like i said, maybe as not as much as a maxd tempest build but when he does use the many shot combos, it makes up for it. and as for them taking up space... ***? not really sure how they are taking up space considering they are doing either nice stat damage or dps and most of the time NOT getting hit. ya i know they arent doing the best dps in the grp but still doing pretty good without taking up much of the clerics sp.

[barecm]

I can't remember the GM's name, but I did file a report on the armor way back. Ticket # 1495607 on 7/18/08 3:52 pm. The response I got was, and I am paraphrazing, that 'we know the armor is bugged, we are seeing if we can resolve the issue' and my ticket was quickly closed. I followed up with a tell asking if it was going to be fixed soon. I got a tell back saying maybe in the next patch, but to check the boards for updates. So, believe what you want. I will stick with my own theory and say that just can't or won't fix it. Easier to change the description to fit the bug.

[Aranticus]

I can't remember the GM's name, but I did file a report on the armor way back when the raid first came out. Ticket # 1495607 on 7/18/08 3:52 pm. I was lucky enough to have someone give me the armor during the first few days of that raid. The response I got was, and I am paraphrazing, that 'we know the armor is bugged, we are seeing if we can resolve the issue' and my ticket was quickly closed. I followed up with a tell asking if it was going to be fixed soon. I got a tell back saying maybe in the next patch, but to check the boards for updates. So, believe what you want. I will stick with my own theory and say that just can't or won't fix it. Easier to change the description to fit the bug.

screenshot pls

[Selinius]

not so sure about that. people dont hate it, they just dont prefer that play style. and idk why people dont like it. ranged combat can do tons of damage (sure maybe not as much as a completely twinked maxd tempest build) but still you should see how fast mobs drop when you combine many shot + haste + human versatility damage boost + what ever uber bow you are using XD

or if you can get your hands on a WoP bow, throw in a lvl or fighter for the haste boost+many shot+haste= TONS of mobs dead in barely anytime.

but anyways, yes i totally agree that it should work with ranged combat.it would help so much to have mobs be running at you slower so you have more time to kill them before they get to you.


-adamr

Why is it that every time someone tries to defend ranged dps that have to resort to basicly the same argument...BUT with manyshot AND... Yeah, so you are pwning dps for 20-30 seconds, what are you doing the rest of the time? Sorry, but I have ran with more useless ranged toons that scream, "GET HIM OFF ME!!!!!" as they kite said mob 5 miles away from the party while making said mobs red bar move everyonce in a while than ran with a good ranged toon. Or maybe I have ran with a good ranged toon and just didn't notice it because they didn't suck as bad as the ones I am used to running with.

Try and argue with me, but if a majority of the players that don't like "ranged" rangers have had experences like mine then its no wonder that when a "ranged" ranger starts crying about something they get met with a loud cry of "Meh, who cares. Pick up a couple of rapiers and do some real damage"

I imagine that there are a few really good bow users out there. Only problem is they probably only run with close friends are guild groups, so the rest of us get to deal with the bow using gimp noob that can't even spell agro management, let alone understand the concept.

Now do I think ranged combat should be scraped, no. I have a tempest monk that I am leveling up now and when we get our new slot I am going to level a 13 ranger/1rog/2monk. Both toons will be temptest builds, but they will both have bows and know how to use them. It has its uses, but as the way to deal main dps on a toon, not really. Any combat form that the best non-raid wepon for it is ml 6 needs some serious looking at.

[barecm]

screenshot pls

I have a note from my doctor that says I don't need a screen shot.

[Selinius]

a lot of ppl say this but on my ranger, he is doing tons of damage even when not using many shot. like i said, maybe as not as much as a maxd tempest build but when he does use the many shot combos, it makes up for it. and as for them taking up space... ***? not really sure how they are taking up space considering they are doing either nice stat damage or dps and most of the time NOT getting hit. ya i know they arent doing the best dps in the grp but still doing pretty good without taking up much of the clerics sp.

I would rather have a 55 AC monk than an unknown bow ranger in group. At least the monk won't go, "Darn, out of arrows guys. Anyone have any extra?"

[barecm]

screenshot pls

And, I have a note from Epstein's mother...

[Selinius]

I have a note from my doctor that says I don't need a screen shot.

Then we don't believe you. Sorry.

[Aranticus]

And I really don't care... sorry.

if you dun care why are you even here discussing?

[barecm]

Then we don't believe you. Sorry.

And I really don't care... sorry. My post was not meant for anyone but the devs. They can reference my ticket number if needed.